Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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You know after reading this endless barrage of disputes, it just looks like God's authority is being stripped, like so many arguments that have been disputed through out time it's always God's authority that gets rejected,
I can't believe what's going on here it's unbelievable.
I would go as far to say t's as bad as watching gays win the right to have gay marriage allowed in church because there free will matters more than Gods authority.
Honestly it's that bad.
I can't believe what's going on here it's unbelievable.
I would go as far to say t's as bad as watching gays win the right to have gay marriage allowed in church because there free will matters more than Gods authority.
Honestly it's that bad.
yes, agree that we all start out as captives of the devil needing to be set free through belief of the gospel ... and 1 John 5:18-19 clearly states that those who are born again, are kept by God ... even while living in the world which is under control of the wicked one ... even the Lord Jesus Christ, when He walked the earth, lived in the world which was under the dominion of satan (Luke 4:5-6).
It was the same with believers in OT ...
Hebrews 11:
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
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38 (Of whom the world was not worthy: ) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
vs 13 – they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth awaiting the promise ... same as we are now ... as we await new heaven/new earth.
vs 14 – they sought a country ... same as we do ... as we await new heaven/new earth.
vs 15 – I do not know of any believer who cares for this present evil world and is not looking forward to new heaven/new earth.
vs 16 – believers desire that heavenly country ... God's promise holds true and we will see new heaven/new earth.
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yes ... and 1 John 2:16 - all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world
the world systems are set up to draw believers away from God ...
2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
and keep folks from the truth ...
2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
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The bottom line here this is a debate really is about man's own free will dating back donkeys it's an absolute stinker
And somehow or another it's now an argument called free will verses predestination.
And all because people hate a doctrine called tulip,
All this argument is doing, is promoting God's authority to be disrespected.
Jt really is.
What's left if we just chuck out verses like John 6.44 which also includes a full relationship with the father
The final choice is his, and whatever choices we have before that or freedom, the final choice is more important
And somehow or another it's now an argument called free will verses predestination.
And all because people hate a doctrine called tulip,
All this argument is doing, is promoting God's authority to be disrespected.
Jt really is.
What's left if we just chuck out verses like John 6.44 which also includes a full relationship with the father
The final choice is his, and whatever choices we have before that or freedom, the final choice is more important
I'm not upset ... I'm asking people who claim they believe God's Word to acknowledge a truth God has stated in His Word.
I'm not the one focusing on the evil ... that's why I have asked you, Magenta, Cameron143, Rufus ... what about the knowledge of good mentioned in Gen 3:22? If/when God reaches out to mankind, is knowledge of good within mankind sufficient to not totally reject God?Jordon said:
On the one hand, folks claim that total depravity does not mean there is no possibility of man doing anything but evil ... that total depravity simply means entire and that in the fall, every aspect of man was corrupted, and not that every facet of man was utterly corrupted.
yet the same folks who claim that "not that every facet of man was utterly corrupted" continuously claim that mankind cannot respond when God reaches out because mankind is evil ... in complete and utter denial of what is written in Gen 3:22 concerning knowledge of good ... and in complete and utter denial of their own tenet that "not that every facet of man was utterly corrupted".
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I don't know ... you were the one who stated:
I asked you to provide chapter and verse which indicated Adam and Eve were "born under judgment".
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oh come on, do you really want me to prove to you where born under judgement
not me ... Adam and Eve ...
here's what you said:
The judgement made in God's sovereign plan before the foundations of the world was that we should be born under judgment which was plain to see in the garden
and I asked you to provide chapter and verse which indicates Adam and Eve were born under judgment. Maybe you didn't mean Adam and Eve and it's just the way it's written "before the foundations of the world was that we should be born under judgment which was plain to see in the garden" ... sounds like you refer to Adam and Eve.
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do you see any judgment taking place in the garden. Or any judgement before the foundations of the world
Heres another judgment and the lord God made us in his likeness.
Here's another judgement its not Good that man shall live alone,
See I told ya already judgement isn't necessarily a bad thing
people should put God above that idea.
So God reveals that only God is good when it comes to the natural man.
As it's only God who makes the natural man do Good God probably meant to get that message across I think. See it's not all that bad really
Total depravity equals a spiritual severance from God. But not a complete one.
All is not lost.
The natural man needs help to respond to God.
That's why God built Noah a boat before wiping the earth clean of many evil natural men.
Could be so more natural men had a better chance
Christianity is all about good and evil. It's something we have to talk about. It's unfortunate we also have to include depraved but that's just how it is.
“And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.”
Luke 18:15-17 KJV
“And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, and said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.”
Matthew 18:2-6 KJV
“Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.”
Matthew 18:10
We sin and fall under judgement we aren’t born there we earn it by choosing the evil over the good sometimes. . When we know what’s right and don’t do it we’ve sinned and commiting our own sins is why we ere condemned. And need a savior. Not because were created wrong because we choose wrong as we grow up
So just to make it clear @reneweddaybyday no none does good not one. Refering to the natural man
I feal it should be a good idea to include only God is good when it comes to the natural man
I feal it should be a good idea to include only God is good when it comes to the natural man
nice scripture thanks.
Judgment is not just a bad thing.
If you believe you where not born under any judgment, I believe your wrong.
lol some of you guys will fly to the moon on a rocket ship you made yourselves to avoid any personal accountability found in scripture huh?
define for me what the term “ will “ means to you . You’re pretty convinced “ will “ isn’t free . So what is someone’s Will ????
….that’s not free according to you.
yeah…. I believe I was born like children are innocent and beloved and blessed by god just like Adam and Eve were . Then eventually the tempter came and I failed and sinned like Adam and Eve did . That I’ve sinned freely and willfully like everyone else and according to what god said that means I’m condemned and need a savior ….. it’s because of my own actions I was condemned.
And because of Jesus and the gospel I can be saved ! And redeemed unto God
to receive what we have done while in our body whether good or evil ? Judgement always originates with gods word that makes a judgement .
“ thou shalt not kill “ anyone who kills another shall surely be put to death “
That’s one of Gods judgements. But you have to kill in order to then after you kill another then you are out to death . Or another example “ thou shalt not commit adultery “ anyone who commits adultery both the man and woman must surely be put to death” again these are judgements of God. Judgement of the law which defines sin and imputes it upon all the world
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
that’s why everyone’s guilty of sin as we grow up we all eventually transgress the judgements of God in the law about right and wrong good and evil. We tell a lie “ thou shalt not lie “ we bear false witness “ thou shalt not bear false witness “ when we commit sin then we are condemned
look at the example of Gods chosen people in the ot. They were told a judgement and consequence and then based on thier choices they reword the reward of curses
you asked who and you have answered your own question ... "those who are perishing"
you asked why and I told you why ... to the Jews who are perishing it is because the preaching of the cross is a stumbling block (1 Cor 1:22) ... to the Greeks who are perishing it is foolishness because they seek man's wisdom (the wisdom of words of 1 Cor 1:17; and the wisdom of the wise of 1 Cor 1:19).
Those who continue to stumble at the stumblingblock will perish ... those who continue to hold to the wisdom of man will perish.
That is the answer to "why".
oh c'mon Cameron143 ... yes there is Scripture not included in 1 Cor 2:14 ...Cameron143 said:
you know there are folks who are not born again who believe the spiritual truth that there is a God Who is the Creator of the heavens and the earth.
you know there are folks who are not born again who believe the spiritual truth thou shalt not murder.
you know there are folks who are not born again who believe the spiritual truth children should obey their parents.
and there are other verses in Scripture which are believed by natural man ... all spiritual truth ... all God breathed ... yet believed by natural man.
you continue to fold the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe into 1 Cor 2:14 ... which is speaking of spiritual truths which go beyond the scope of the gospel.
1 Cor 1:18-25 does not say those who are perishing can't believe the gospel ... 1 Cor 1:18-25 says those who are perishing won't believe the gospel ... because they hold the wisdom of men above the foolishness of God when God tells us the foolishness of God is wiser than men.
yes, the verse is speaking of more in-depth spiritual matters which go beyond the gospel of Christ ... the gospel is the first step to the milk of the Word.Cameron143 said:
1 Cor 2:14 is speaking of spiritual matters that go beyond what the natural man (as well as the newborn believer in Christ) is able to comprehend. That is why Paul spoke of these matters to those who were more mature.Cameron143 said:
1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought
The words "are perfect" are translated from the Greek word téleios which means mature, of full age. Paul specifically states that he and other more mature spoke wisdom amongst themselves. These discussions were not held in the regular church congregation.
1 Cor 2:6-16 specifically relates to spiritual matters which go beyond the scope of the gospel which was taught in the general congregation of the church:
vs 6 – the wisdom was discussed among the mature believers ... the gospel was taught in the general congregation (vss 1-2).
vs 7 – the wisdom of God in a mystery ... this wisdom was kept secret since the world began (Rom 16:25); and in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men (Eph 3:5); and from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God (Eph 3:9); and which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest (Col 1:26). Please understand, the gospel was never hid by God ... the gospel is proclaimed throughout all of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation.
vs 8 – if the devil and his minions had known the mystery, the hidden wisdom, they never would have crucified the Lord Jesus Christ.
vs 9 – the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).
vs 10 – the deep things of God go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel). The gospel is considered milk upon which the new believer (as well as all believers) is to desire so that he/she may grow thereby... the mystery, the hidden wisdom is (scripturally) considered to be strong meat.
vs 11 – the things of God which no man knoweth go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).
vs 12 – the things that are freely given to us of God go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).
vs 13 – things which the Holy Ghost teacheth go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).
vs 14 – the things of the Spirit of God and specifically the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).
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