Am I correct with my understanding of this? Faith in Jesus alone = salvation

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
TishnTexas said:
I do believe Jesus was/is without sin. Even John objected to baptizing Jesus (Matt 3:13) because Jesus was without sin. But I do believe that Jesus needed to experience everything mankind experiences (pain, deprivation, etc) so that when we try to excuse our sins by saying "because of this or that", we know Jesus (as man) experienced it too and yet still walked perfectly with God.
Click to expand...
He needed to for this reason

John 1: 29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ 31 I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water.”

32 And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him. 33 I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.”

It was johns testimony prophesied from the OT..
 
Everlasting-Grace said:
you can answer also.

why did Jesu snot mention water baptism i9n any of these passages concerning being made a child of God and born agai8n?

John 1: 11: 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (no works)

John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already (no works)

John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will NEVER THIRST. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE” (no works)

John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)

John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. HE WHO COMES TO ME shall NEVER HUNGER and he who BELIEVES IN ME shall NEVER THIRST (NO WORKS)

John 6: 37: and THE ONE WHO COMES TO ME I WILL BY NO MEANS CAST OUT 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, thatof all He has given Me I SHAL LOSE NOTHING, but SHOULD RAISE IT UP ON THE LAST DAY. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND I WILL (NOT MIGHT) RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY (NO WORKS)

John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that THAT ONE MAY EAT OF IT AND NOT DIE 51 am the living bread which came down from heaven. IF ANYONE EATS THIS BREAD HE WILL LIVE FOREVER (NO WORKS)

John 6: 63 It is the SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE ; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (SIGNIFYING THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, THE FLESH AND BOOD ARE THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE. NOT THE PHYSICAL FOOD OR WORKS,)

I will leaves pauls words out for now
Click to expand...
I agree with what you have said here. Whoever believes will have eternal life (you left out the most obvious: the sinner on the cross beside Jesus) but I believe the baptism is "the putting on the clothes" like Joshua and the Israelites before going to the base of Mount Sinai.
 
TishnTexas said:
I do believe Jesus was/is without sin. Even John objected to baptizing Jesus (Matt 3:13) because Jesus was without sin. But I do believe that Jesus needed to experience everything mankind experiences (pain, deprivation, etc) so that when we try to excuse our sins by saying "because of this or that", we know Jesus (as man) experienced it too and yet still walked perfectly with God.
Click to expand...


Why did He get baptized if He had no sins to atone for, yet you were taught that we do through that same baptism?
 
Everlasting-Grace said:
He needed to for this reason

John 1: 29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ 31 I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water.”

32 And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him. 33 I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.”

It was johns testimony prophesied from the OT..
Click to expand...
So if I am to understand what you are saying here: the baptism is not water or oil but the Holy Spirit when we receive it? Please note I am not trying to contradict anyone here or arguing one way or another. I am trying to learn and get fresh perspectives.
 
TishnTexas said:
I agree with what you have said here. Whoever believes will have eternal life (you left out the most obvious: the sinner on the cross beside Jesus)
Click to expand...
The sinner on the cross was saved the same way abraham was. And the same way I was.

but I believe the baptism is "the putting on the clothes" like Joshua and the Israelites before going to the base of Mount Sinai.
Click to expand...

the problem is with this example. that would be more like Adam and Eve putting on fig leaves. God said that would not help. He put the proper covering on them himself.

God washes you and makes you white as snow.

water baptism symbolizes this act of God.. just like all the other ceremonies or traditions God gave sumbolise aspects of his love and his work
 
TishnTexas said:
So if I am to understand what you are saying here: the baptism is not water or oil but the Holy Spirit when we receive it? Please note I am not trying to contradict anyone here or arguing one way or another. I am trying to learn and get fresh perspectives.
Click to expand...

No I am saying in roms 6 it says I was baptized into his death and into him

This is done by the power of God. and no water is involved. its the washing of regeneration spoken of in John 3, which was not done by our work of righteousness, but by Gods mercy
 
HealthAndHappiness said:
Why did He get baptized if He had no sins to atone for, yet you were taught that we do through that same baptism?
Click to expand...
Oh no. I am so sorry I didn't explain myself well. I don't believe baptism atones for anything. Only the blood of Jesus atones for our sins. What I am saying is once the sins are atoned for, we wash and put on new clothes (baptism)
 
TishnTexas said:
Oh no. I am so sorry I didn't explain myself well. I don't believe baptism atones for anything. Only the blood of Jesus atones for our sins. What I am saying is once the sins are atoned for, we wash and put on new clothes (baptism)
Click to expand...
so are we saved before or after we wash?
 
Everlasting-Grace said:
The sinner on the cross was saved the same way abraham was. And the same way I was.



the problem is with this example. that would be more like Adam and Eve putting on fig leaves. God said that would not help. He put the proper covering on them himself.

God washes you and makes you white as snow.

water baptism symbolizes this act of God.. just like all the other ceremonies or traditions God gave sumbolise aspects of his love and his work
Click to expand...
The last part "water baptism symbolizes the act of God washing you and making you white as snow. I do not agree with the Adam and Eve reference though. Adam and Eve covered themselves with fig leave in sin and shame, there was no washing/cleansing
 
TishnTexas said:
The last part "water baptism symbolizes the act of God washing you and making you white as snow. I do not agree with the Adam and Eve reference though. Adam and Eve covered themselves with fig leave in sin and shame, there was no washing/cleansing
Click to expand...

again, Adam and eve covered their sin by their works

God covered their sin with the death of an innocent animal (represented Christ)

God covered them.

You can not cover yourself or wash yourself..
 
Everlasting-Grace said:
No I am saying in roms 6 it says I was baptized into his death and into him

This is done by the power of God. and no water is involved. its the washing of regeneration spoken of in John 3, which was not done by our work of righteousness, but by Gods mercy
Click to expand...
Sorry...I really am trying to understand but what you are saying just not clicking for me. Are you saying by believing in Jesus, God has given you new life (baptized your spirit)--no Holy Spirit, no cleansing required?
 
TishnTexas said:
Sorry...I really am trying to understand but what you are saying just not clicking for me. Are you saying by believing in Jesus, God has given you new life (baptized your spirit)--no Holy Spirit, no cleansing required?
Click to expand...
My cleasing was performed by God.. Paul calls it the washing of regneration. This occures when I am baptized by the Holy Spirit into Christs death.

The HS then comes on (I am anointed by the spirit) where I am sealed until the day of redemption.

Baptism of the spirit and the anointing of the spirit are two different things. does this help? sorry if I confuse you :(
 
Everlasting-Grace said:
again, Adam and eve covered their sin by their works

God covered their sin with the death of an innocent animal (represented Christ)

God covered them.

You can not cover yourself or wash yourself..
Click to expand...
Oh, now I see your point. I agree you cannot cleanse your soul, only God/Jesus can do that. But the baptism is you acknowledging/declaring your sins have been washed away and you are living a new life in Christ. Making a covenant if you will to live/walk with God .
 
TishnTexas said:
Oh, now I see your point. I agree you cannot cleanse your soul, only God/Jesus can do that. But the baptism is you acknowledging/declaring your sins have been washed away and you are living a new life in Christ. Making a covenant if you will to live/walk with God .
Click to expand...
I see water baptism as a testimony to be shared with the world. a way for you to invite your friends and family. and given an open testimony. Then to show them what you believe God did for you.
 
Everlasting-Grace said:
My cleasing was performed by God.. Paul calls it the washing of regneration. This occures when I am baptized by the Holy Spirit into Christs death.

The HS then comes on (I am anointed by the spirit) where I am sealed until the day of redemption.

Baptism of the spirit and the anointing of the spirit are two different things. does this help? sorry if I confuse you :(
Click to expand...
But the John 3 reference you gave states "Jesus answered "Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit" So if there is no water to symbolize walking the righteous path, what water is Jesus referencing here? And unfortunately, I still don't get the point you are trying to make: the Holy Spirit baptizes you (what is your definition of baptism?) then (later?) anoints you?
 
Everlasting-Grace said:
I see water baptism as a testimony to be shared with the world. a way for you to invite your friends and family. and given an open testimony. Then to show them what you believe God did for you.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Not just to friends and family but to God Himself. You are declaring you acknowledge his sacrifice and pledge to worship him and follow his path. Like a wedding ceremony
 
TishnTexas said:
But the John 3 reference you gave states "Jesus answered "Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit" So if there is no water to symbolize walking the righteous path, what water is Jesus referencing here? And unfortunately, I still don't get the point you are trying to make: the Holy Spirit baptizes you (what is your definition of baptism?) then (later?) anoints you?
Click to expand...
Jesus tells us how we are born of water and spirit in vs 10 - 18

water can be seen a few ways

1. Physical birth - Ye must be born again a second time)
2. Washing of water by the word (eph 5: 26)

if water meant baptism, I think Jesus would have let him know it vs 10 - 18 when he told him how to be born again
 
TishnTexas said:
Agreed. Not just to friends and family but to God Himself. You are declaring you acknowledge his sacrifice and pledge to worship him and follow his path. Like a wedding ceremony
Click to expand...
we do this every time we chose to serve him and others..

the more we grow the more we do because the more we trust
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back