Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[HeIsHere]

Why is the gospel foolishness to the perishing?

Always good to circle back to a question that has been answered many times.

 

[Rufus]

You do have the ability to apply discernment from scripture. You do it i do it. You have a differnt doctrine then me and vise versa. If no one ever applied thier own thinking to what scripture did or didnt mean there would be no differnt denominations. I mean heck the 10k post here and the 10k before it and the 10k before it are proof that is not the case. We all get slightly differnt meanings when we read and think about what is written. But you think and reason about scripture and then come up with ideas and opinions that are not directly stated in the passage just as I do. Its not a bad thing unless it's bat crap looney and you are trying to teach it haha.

Hah...you mean like the heresies of Pelagianism or Arminianism!?

 

[Kroogz]

Maybe, just maybe, it has something to do with being blinded by the god of this age, being taken captive to do the will of the devil, being inherently opposed to the spiritual things of God which he can neither receive nor comprehend as a God-hater? But FWers don't like such Scriptural truths. They prefer their self-exalting theology over what the Bible explicitly articulates about the man of flesh serving the law of sin (which brings forth fruit unto death, not life) to which he is a slave, being a lover of darkness and defined as darkness itself, and of the world which cannot receive the spirit of Truth. And strangely enough, some here deny that. Their confidence is solidly placed in the flesh.

You thought the Gospel was foolishness when you were perishing.

What you ADD to it is..........The Gospel is forever foolish to those who are forever perishing.

The Holy Spirit will convict/convince the world.

 

[Rufus]

Getting back to actual reality (and departing from @Cameron143 's endless hypothetical fantasies), we recognize that @studier is correct in stating that indeed, God's power to save is inherent in the gospel, needing no other preconditions.

But, what @Cameron143 fails to address (in order that he might become rooted in actual reality) is the following (not to mention vast swaths of other Biblical precepts as well):

That God bequeaths men with objective free will, whereby and wherewith God may be justified in the end.
In other words, the volition of man cannot be removed from the justification equation.

[Act 6:10 KJV]
And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.
[Act 6:11 KJV]
Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and [against] God.

[Act 7:51 KJV]
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye.

[Rom 13:2 KJV]
Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

[2Ti 3:8 KJV]
Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

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[Psa 51:4 KJV]
Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done [this] evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, [and] be clear when thou judgest.

[Isa 43:9 KJV]
Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, [It is] truth.

[Luk 7:29 KJV]
And all the people that heard [him], and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.

[Luk 18:14 KJV]
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

[Rom 3:4 KJV]
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

[Rom 3:24 KJV]
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

[1Co 4:4 KJV]
For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

[Gal 2:17 KJV]
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [is] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

So you seem to be implying that God could NEVER condemn all mankind because He wouldn't be just and justified in doing that?

 

[Cameron143]

Always good to circle back to a question that has been answered many times.

You can believe that the natural fallen man is free to make choices unencumbered by his nature if you want. You can even act as though the purposes of God and salvation and freewill are not related subjects. You can even continue to misrepresent scripture and what people post.But you can't change what the word of God says and means, and neither can your cohorts, though you make valiant attempts to do so.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Why is the gospel foolishness to the perishing?

Maybe, just maybe, it has something to do with being blinded by the god of this age, being taken captive to do the will of the devil, being inherently opposed to the spiritual things of God which he can neither receive nor comprehend as a God-hater? But FWers don't like such Scriptural truths. They prefer their self-exalting theology over what the Bible explicitly articulates about the man of flesh serving the law of sin (which brings forth fruit unto death, not life) to which he is a slave, being a lover of darkness and defined as darkness itself, and of the world which cannot receive the spirit of Truth. And strangely enough, some here deny that. Their confidence is solidly placed in the flesh.

or maybe ... just maybe ... the one who considers the gospel as foolishness is one who suppresses the truth in unrightouesness ... just as God reveals in Scripture:

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.


when the gospel is preached, there are only two responses:

believe and receive the blessing;

suppress the truth in unrighteousness and receive the consequence.
.

 

[Cameron143]

or maybe ... just maybe ... the one who considers the gospel as foolishness is one who suppresses the truth in unrightouesness ... just as God reveals in Scripture:

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.


when the gospel is preached, there are only two responses:

believe and receive the blessing;

suppress the truth in unrighteousness and receive the consequence.
.

Sure. But the question is not who, but why?

 

[Rufus]

Cameron143 said:


No one has said man doesn't have volition; only that it isn't free. One is either a slave to sin or righteousness, and one's nature inevitably impacts one's choices. How then is the will free?

If your arguments could stand alone you wouldn't feel the need to impugn my character. I wonder what is impacting your choice to do so.

Oh...that's easy to answer. It's the power of the gospel that made it only to FWers' volition but never sunk down to the depths of their hearts.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

FTFY!

Rufus ... you are only "FTFY!" (fixing that for yourself!")
.

 

[Rufus]

Nope. Quit editing scripture to suit your dogma.

Strong's Greek: 4991. σωτηρία (sótéria) -- Salvation

Cognate: 4991 sōtēría (from 4982 /sṓzō, "to save, rescue") – salvation, i.e. God's rescue which delivers believers out of destruction and into His safety. See 4982 (sōzō).

View attachment 279345

Why would God need to "rescue" healthy, self-sufficient sinners whom God has gifted with a "freewill"?

 

[Rufus]

Rufus ... you are only "FTFY!" (fixing that for yourself!")
.

My biblical theology needs no fixing, thank you.

 

[Kroogz]

You can believe that the natural fallen man is free to make choices unencumbered by his nature if you want.

And you guys STILL cannot produce ONE verse that says," Man cannot believe His Gospel to them."

See, right at the gate you guys fail. So ALL of your doctrine is skewed After that.

The Lord Jesus Christ died for ALL. Sin is finished. The Holy Spirit will convict the WORLD.

I know you disagree. And this is why ALL your doctrine and "questions" come from a false premise.

Right out of the gates, reformed/calvie/tulip theory falls flat on its face.

 

[Magenta]

You can believe that the natural fallen man is free to make choices unencumbered by his nature if you want. You can even act as though the purposes of God and salvation and freewill are not related subjects. You can even continue to misrepresent scripture and what people post.But you can't change what the word of God says and means, and neither can your cohorts, though you make valiant attempts to do so.

They do not recognize the natural fallen man because they have re-made man into their vain
self-exalted image instead of how Scripture actually portrays him. Not such a bad guy, they say.
Not even killing your only brother was a really bad thing, I have been told. So in their theology
the not-so-bad guy can change his incurably wicked heart even though Jesus said it is impossible.
They have put their confidence in the flesh when it serves the law of sin bringing forth fruit unto death.

 

[Rufus]

The rock in Matt16:18 is the revelation that Jesus is the Christ, personally revealed by God to Peter. This truth about Jesus was foundational, and, as Paul explains in 1Cor3, remains the foundation. Since then, God saves through the publicly proclaimed gospel, which is the power of God toward salvation, benefiting everyone who is believing. Belief or unbelief is a volitional human response to the gospel’s inherent power.

"Personally revealed by God to Peter"? Really? You mean the power of the gospel message alone couldn't save Peter? Does God personally reveal to all his elect that Jesus is the Messiah? Or did Peter get super duper special and UNEQUAL treatment by God?

 

[Magenta]

"Personally revealed by God to Peter"? Really? You mean the power of the gospel message alone
couldn't save Peter? Does God personally reveal to all his elect that Jesus is the Messiah?
Or did Peter get super duper special and UNEQUAL treatment by God?

Another Biblical truth reviled by some of our FWers:

Matthew 11 verse 27 ~ All things have been entrusted to Me by My Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.

 

[Magenta]

Why would God need to "rescue" healthy, self-sufficient sinners whom God has gifted with a "freewill"?

According to some of them, man needs nothing. Of course Scripture says something quite different.

But we have found that to be the case regarding much of what FWers claim. When they stop believing
they are right to have put confidence in the flesh, we will know God has finally opened their eyes.
Then we can sing and dance and rejoice with the angels in heaven that they have repented.

 

[Rufus]

Yes.....you are that guy. One of several like-minded individuals.
We thank you for your admission in any case.

Couldn't answer my question about infants and babies and the judicial basis upon which they're "all" saved, heh? You prefer instead to post stupid, non sequitur replies to publicly parade your ignorance.

 

[Rufus]

Another Biblical truth reviled by some of our FWers:

Matthew 11 verse 27 ~ All things have been entrusted to Me by My Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him .

Wow! Did Jesus really say that? How come he didn't preach the objective and impersonal "power of the gospel" instead? I wonder why He waxed so personally, subjectively and existentially?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Sure. But the question is not who, but why?

we've gone through 1 Cor 1:18 many times ... here maybe this will help ... click.
.

 

[Rufus]

You can believe that the natural fallen man is free to make choices unencumbered by his nature if you want. You can even act as though the purposes of God and salvation and freewill are not related subjects. You can even continue to misrepresent scripture and what people post.But you can't change what the word of God says and means, and neither can your cohorts, though you make valiant attempts to do so.

Neither can any human being change his immutable, evil nature, any more than God change his holy nature.