Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Cameron143]

No comparison to what happened to that girl.
Just stop.

Jesus told His audience that those who died perished and that they were headed the same way. Did those who perished deserve to perish?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Acts 10:40-45
40 Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. 42 And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead. 43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.” 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.

I believe that the scripture above explains perfectly that these Gentiles were brought to faith [not because of anything in themselves], but because the Holy Spirit had been poured out on them! Both their faith and belief were given to them as a gift by the Grace of God.

In vs 41, the witnesses chosen before by God, are the ones who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. iow, as revealed in vs 41, the Lord Jesus Christ did not show Himself openly to all inhabitants of Israel. In 1 Cor 15:5-8, Paul tells us who saw Him after His resurrection.

In vs 42-43, Peter preached concerning the Lord Jesus Christ and told them "whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins". As Peter was preaching, vs 44 tells us that the Holy Spirit fell upon the household of Cornelius.

In vs 45, the those of the circumcision who believed were the companions Peter brought with him from Joppa. The Jewish believers were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.


What occurred in the household of Cornelius is as follows ...

God made the first move ... in Acts 10:3, Cornelius saw in a vision and Cornelius followed the instruction given by the angel.

God also reached out to Peter and gave instruction ... Peter followed the instruction and went to the household of Cornelius.

Peter preached the gospel ... another example of God working within His faithful believer to spread the gospel. Peter preached the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Because the gospel is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe, God gave increase and the gift of Holy Spirit was poured out upon those who believed.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

One of these free willers' fave pastimes is concocting logical fallacies...and trying to stick us with their repeated misrepresentations.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

What I postulated was most certainly an option Adam had. If he loved Eve and God so much, why didn't he offer to sacrifice his own life for her?

Please provide the Scripture which indicates Adam knew he had the option postulated by you.

Where is the Scripture revealing that Adam knew he could "step into the gap between Eve and God, as Moses did between Israel and God, and offer to pay her sin debt by pleading with God to take his life on her behalf".

On the other hand, we know Adam knew what was written in Gen 2:24.

Didn't the Last Adam do just that for God's chosen children of promise?

According to Scripture ... the Lord Jesus Christ gave His life for the whole world ...

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
.

 

[Intersection]

View attachment 279247

 

[BillyBob]

In vs 41, the witnesses chosen before by God, are the ones who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. iow, as revealed in vs 41, the Lord Jesus Christ did not show Himself openly to all inhabitants of Israel. In 1 Cor 15:5-8, Paul tells us who saw Him after His resurrection.

In vs 42-43, Peter preached concerning the Lord Jesus Christ and told them "whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins". As Peter was preaching, vs 44 tells us that the Holy Spirit fell upon the household of Cornelius.

In vs 45, the those of the circumcision who believed were the companions Peter brought with him from Joppa. The Jewish believers were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.


What occurred in the household of Cornelius is as follows ...

God made the first move ... in Acts 10:3, Cornelius saw in a vision and Cornelius followed the instruction given by the angel.

God also reached out to Peter and gave instruction ... Peter followed the instruction and went to the household of Cornelius.

Peter preached the gospel ... another example of God working within His faithful believer to spread the gospel. Peter preached the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Because the gospel is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe, God gave increase and the gift of Holy Spirit was poured out upon those who believed.
.

At what point do you think the gentiles were given faith to believed? Was it at the time of hearing, or at the time of the Spirit be poured out? Would they have believed without the work of the Spirit?

 

[cv5]

Scripture is ultimately not their friend.

Not a good look. And an even worse outcome.

 

[NightTwister]

Freemasonic King James version isn't God's word either.

And? I don't use the KJV. It's not the 17th Century anymore.

 

[Magenta]

When I read some of the walls of text presented, completely out of line with sound doctrine, I just think that person must be mostly filled with fear/vitriol rather than happiness.

Studier?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

So odd how people standing right in front of Jesus could not will themselves to believe.

Mark 6:2-6 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands? Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house. And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

The Lord Jesus Christ marvelled because of their unbelief. In another passage, the Lord Jesus Christ marvelled at the believing of the gentile centurion (Matt 8:10).

sadly, these folks thought of Him as "the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon, and his [unnamed] sisters". They were "offended at Him". They could not see past their preconceived notion of who they thought He was. In referring to Him as the "son of Mary", they were calling His birth into question ... same as what others did in John 8:41 and John 9:29.

The "unbelief" is explained by Jesus A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

Again, the Lord Jesus Christ coming to teach in the synagogue was God reaching out first to the people. There are only 2 responses to the preaching of God's Word ... believe and receive the blessing ... or suppress the truth in unrighteousness and receive the consequence.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

He is dead,

Sproul Jr?

Sproul Jr. stated very clearly she received the judgement from God she had earned.
Has there been any condemnation of this statement on this thread.
There has been NONE.

(bold mine)
.

 

[Jordon]

Hebrews 4 v 12 The word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it pierces even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It judges the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Yes Thanks magenta, clear proof Gods word is alive and active.

Some people would not realise this when a message is placed on the heart, or not if this has ever been explained to them.

Just how alive and active is word is

Or even how alive and active his word is in there fallen state.

A natural man may not even realise the thought to resist temptation may not even be coming from his alive and active word, neither may they even realise There own intelligence is coming from his alive and active word.

They may not even realise his word was made flesh,
But hey there's always time right.

They may not even realise that in the beginning was the word

They certainly may not realise this includes his enabling grace

The oracle

His enabling encouragement

Or his alive and active will inside his spoken in each message relayed.

The power to save and judge convict prewarn

Or to be held accountable with.

But hey one day maybe.

 

[Jordon]

Mark 6:2-6 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands? Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house. And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

The Lord Jesus Christ marvelled because of their unbelief. In another passage, the Lord Jesus Christ marvelled at the believing of the gentile centurion (Matt 8:10).

sadly, these folks thought of Him as "the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon, and his [unnamed] sisters". They were "offended at Him". They could not see past their preconceived notion of who they thought He was. In referring to Him as the "son of Mary", they were calling His birth into question ... same as what others did in John 8:41 and John 9:29.

The "unbelief" is explained by Jesus A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

Again, the Lord Jesus Christ coming to teach in the synagogue was God reaching out first to the people. There are only 2 responses to the preaching of God's Word ... believe and receive the blessing ... or suppress the truth in unrighteousness and receive the consequence.
.

yes as Jesus spoke his word was also able to open ears

 

[Jordon]

AI Overview

Yes, from a humanistic and some theological viewpoints, humans have free will to choose , but this ability is often seen as limited or subject to underlying desires or divine influence, rather than absolute freedom from all factors. In many religious contexts, particularly in Christianity, free will is believed to be a gift from God, enabling humans to make genuine choices, even to choose evil, though some perspectives argue that a sinful nature or a higher divine plan can influence these choices.

Theological Perspectives

• Christianity:
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  Free will is a core concept, allowing for genuine love and choice, even if it includes the potential for evil. However, some Christian views also emphasize a "sinful nature" that prevents a person from choosing righteousness on their own, requiring divine grace to enable that choice.
  
  
• Judaism:
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  The Torah presents life and death as choices, implying free will is necessary for people to make those decisions, such as choosing to serve God or not.
  
  
• Islam:
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  The Quran demonstrates freedom of choice, indicating that individuals have the capacity to make choices that affect their lives.

Philosophical and Psychological Perspectives

• Humanistic Psychology:
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  This approach assumes humans possess free will and personal agency, meaning they make choices that shape their lives and have consequences.
  
  
• Limitations of Free Will:
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  Even where free will is affirmed, it's often understood to exist within certain limits. Just as one cannot choose to fly, a person may be unable to choose to make themselves righteous due to their inherent nature or circumstances, according to some views.

The Role of Choice in Goodness and Evil

• The Necessity of Choice:
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  Some argue that genuine goodness and love are only possible if there is a real choice involved; a being programmed to be good would not possess true love.
• The Origin of Evil:
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  Free will is also seen as the reason evil exists, as it gives beings the choice to go wrong.

The Complexity of Free Will

• Divine Will vs. Human Choice:
  Some theological discussions explore the relationship between human free will and God's predestination or sovereign will, presenting a complex view where both coexist.
  
  
• Voluntary Actions:
  Even if a person is compelled by internal factors (like desires), their actions can still be considered voluntary, making them responsible for those choices.

I would be careful with ai it has no conviction.

 

[Jordon]

The more we're caused to dig, the more the determinist system falls apart, even if some don't care. Scripture is ultimately not their friend.

that's a bit of a blanket statement sir. One would think your trying to close this hearing

You should take this thought captive before posting it.

And You should know better seeing as your a studier.

Enjoy your day sir

 

[Jordon]

What I postulated was most certainly an option Adam had. If he loved Eve and God so much, why didn't he offer to sacrifice his own life for her? Didn't the Last Adam do just that for God's chosen children of promise?

anything goes with idealism sir something the free willer is not to quick to appreciate.

 

[Jordon]

Well it's been an eye opener my time spent here again

And an ear opener

The good news is At least the word of God is being discussed,

And the natural man is still being given the chance to speak.

The natural man is determined tho

 

[cv5]

Mark 6:2-6 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands? Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house. And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

The Lord Jesus Christ marvelled because of their unbelief. In another passage, the Lord Jesus Christ marvelled at the believing of the gentile centurion (Matt 8:10).

sadly, these folks thought of Him as "the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon, and his [unnamed] sisters". They were "offended at Him". They could not see past their preconceived notion of who they thought He was. In referring to Him as the "son of Mary", they were calling His birth into question ... same as what others did in John 8:41 and John 9:29.

The "unbelief" is explained by Jesus A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

Again, the Lord Jesus Christ coming to teach in the synagogue was God reaching out first to the people. There are only 2 responses to the preaching of God's Word ... believe and receive the blessing ... or suppress the truth in unrighteousness and receive the consequence.
.

"receiving" = saying yes to the call
"suppressing" = saying no to the call

Consent or contempt for the Messenger.

Nothing more and nothing less.

Let the determinists "suppress" this simplicity if they WILL. It's their CHOICE.

 

[cv5]

God has ***chosen those*** in Him to be blameless in his sight.

Better stated as:

God has chosen ***THESE THINGS, namely*** blamelessness, conformation to His image, justification, adoption, obtaining an inheritance and glory ***FOR those*** who WILL believe, those who WILL CHOOSE to enter the covenant.

Thats the gist of προορίζω. BTW, its kind of a compound term, but @studier would know better than I.

And this term NEVER, EVER pertains to anything about God choosing any individual FOR SALVATION whatsoever and certainly nothing about "pre-birth Calvinistic selection" either.

The common error of mis-juggling the sequence and priority of terms and subjects and objects when presenting a thesis on "predestination" is really the problem.

Rom 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he G4309 also did predestinate G4309 to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Rom 8:30
Moreover whom he did predestinate, G4309 them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


Eph 1:5
Having predestinated G4309 us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,


Eph 1:11
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated G4309 according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

******************************************************************************************************

Act 4:28
For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before G4309 to be done.
(The cross, planned from before time, but by then had already arrived at the "destination/realization").

1Co 2:7
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained G4309 before the world unto our glory:
1Co 2:8
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
(The cross, planned from before time, but by then had already arrived at the "destination/realization").

God has planned before time that ***THESE THINGS, namely*** blamelessness, conformation to His image, justification, adoption, obtaining an inheritance and glory ***SHALL BE GIFTED/BEQUEATHED to/upon those*** who WILL (in their time) believe, those who WILL (in their time) CHOOSE to enter the covenant.

 

[Magenta]

Well it's been an eye opener my time spent here again

And an ear opener

The good news is At least the word of God is being discussed,

And the natural man is still being given the chance to speak.

The natural man is determined tho

Some here want to pretend the natural man is no biggie in Scripture
as if the whole Bible was not about God's need to transform him.

He already has everything he needs, they say.

But then out of the other side of their mouth?

I never said his heart was good enough.

Another clear-cut case of: