Am I correct with my understanding of this? Faith in Jesus alone = salvation

[mailmandan]

Another scripture in harmony with Acts 2:38, 1 Peter 3:21, and Mark 16:16.

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit -Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So, the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 20:21; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase, he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). *The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, only the wicked in Noah's day came in contact with the water and they all perished. So, by Peter saying, "not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," Peter guards against saving power to the physical ceremony in H20.

We are NOT saved by “faith alone” just as James 2:24 says.

Again, James is discussing an empty profession of faith that remains "alone" barren of works. (James 2:14) That is not genuine faith but a bare profession of faith. Not to be confused with faith that trusts in Jesus Christ "alone" for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Learn the difference.

We are saved by ALL that the Bible says about salvation. There are many scriptures that teach we are saved by “faith”, but not one that says we are saved by “faith only” or “faith alone.” If there is one, then where?

The Bible says that we are saved by grace through faith, not works in Ephesians 2:8,9. You only have two choices here. Saved by faith, not works, hence faith alone or saved by faith and works. You can't have it both ways.

When Peter says we are saved by “baptism”, (3:21), no one that I have ever known has taught that we are saved by “baptism only” or “ baptism alone.”

Stop isolating the first part of the verse and read the rest. When Peter uses this phrase, he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

When the Bible says we are saved by” repentance”, (Acts 2:38, Luke 13,3, Acts 3:19.). I’ve never heard of anyone claiming we are saved by “repentance alone” or “repentance only.”

Repentance is a "change of mind" and the new direction of this change of mind is faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. Two sides to the same coin. Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. When we see a verse where only repentance is mentioned, like Acts 3:19, faith is implied or assumed because they are two sides to the same coin. Where you have one you must have the other. When you see verses where only belief or faith are mentioned, repentance is implied or assumed because repentance already took place in the process of changing our mind and choosing to belief/place faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Now you can repent and believe the gospel but NOT YET BE WATER BAPTIZED. (Acts 10:43-47)

When Roman’s 10 says “ confession” is unto salvation, no one that I know claims salvation by “confession only” or “confession alone.” Why, then, do people teach that we are saved by “faith” alone? Of course, if we are saved by “faith alone” then that means repentance and confession have nothing to do with our salvation. And isn’t that contradicting what God says?

Such confusion. When you hear genuine believers say that we are saved by "faith alone," they are not saying that the believer never repented or that the word of faith is in our heart but not in our mouth (Romans 10:8-10) or that this faith remains alone/barren of works. What they are saying is that we are saved the very moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) His faith is accounted for righteousness/God imputes righteousness apart from works/saved by grace through faith, not works. This is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. They need to boast.

Psalms 119:160 says that the “sum” of God’s word is truth or the “entirety” (All) of it. Don’t “take away” baptism from God’s plan of salvation. Revelation 22:19. 1 Peter 3:21 is part of God’s truth. God put it there. Will you believe what God says?

I believe what God says. I just don't believe your eisegesis. We are to take the sum of God's word and properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching our conclusion on doctrine and not distort and pervert passages of scripture in an effort to "patch together" a works-based false gospel. Your multi-step plan of salvation that culminates in salvation by water baptism comes straight out of the church of Christ (Campbellism) and is the result of bad semantics and flawed hermeneutics.

 

[Ouch]

That is your eisegesis. Galatians 3:26 - For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus (Period.) Not through faith and water baptism. Also read John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. *Received Him, given the right to become children of God, through believing in His name, not through water baptism.

Galatians 3:27 - For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on/clothed yourself with Christ. The Greek word for "put on" is "enduo" and means to enclose oneself in, as when one "puts on" clothes or armor or some other item. Involved in this is the idea of "imitation" and "identification." Just as 1 Corinthians 10:2 says that all (the Israelites) were "baptized into Moses" in the cloud and in the sea, but this does not mean that the Israelites were literally water baptized into the body of Moses. We are Spirit baptized into the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13) and the only sense that we are water baptized into Christ would be in the same sense that the Israelites were baptized into Moses. (1 Corinthians 10:2) There is little dispute that being "baptized into Moses" signified the open allegiance and public identification of the Israelites with Moses as their leader. Moses was formally recognized as the leader of the covenant people. Water baptism signifies our allegiance and public identification with Christ as our Savior, so it would only be in that sense. So how does one "put on" Christ in baptism? Is it because one becomes a "child of God" through water baptism? NO. Is Paul saying that we become children of God by water baptism as much as children of God by faith in Christ? NO.

"Let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light...put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof." (Romans 13:12,14) This exhortation is written to Christians (those already saved). Evidently then, baptism is not the only way to "put on" Christ. To "put on" Christ is to conform to Him, imitate Him. So it is in baptism; we "put on" Christ, conforming to Him in the ordinance that declares Him to be our Savior. So if "put on" Christ means saved through water baptism, apparently we are not saved yet. We must also "put on" Christ by making no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts in order to be saved as well. (Romans 13:14) Right? NO. This exhortation is to those ALREADY SAVED.

"Put off," wrote Paul, "the old man," and "put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness" (Ephesians 4:22,24); And, "put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil." (Ephesians 6:11)

The allusion is to putting off old clothes and putting on new ones, to enclosing oneself in armor, etc. When a soldier puts on armor he is imitating his superiors and trainers, is revealing himself to be a soldier. One does not put on a uniform in order to become a soldier. Simply putting on a soldier's uniform does not make one become a soldier. Once one is made a soldier one is then able to put on and wear the uniform that distinguishes or marks them as a soldier. It's the same with putting on a judge's robe. Simply putting on a robe in of itself, does not make anyone become a judge, but one who has been made a judge is qualified to put on judicial robes and thus declare their qualifications.

So too with being water baptized, the Christian puts on robes for which they has previously been qualified to wear. The putting on of Christ is not what makes one become a Christian, but one which becomes a token of it, as in Romans 13:14. If one sets out to put on the clothes of a Christian, in water baptism, without first becoming a Christian (child of God through faith), then one becomes an imposter, and is declaring, in baptism, to be what they are not.

We are Spirit baptized into the body of Christ and not water baptized. 1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. This is signified, but not procured in water baptism.

Faith only per James 2:24 is referring to an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. James 2:14 - says/claims (key word) to have faith but has no works. So, James is not using the word "justified" in James 2:24 to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith. *Not to be confused with faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

Again, if one sets out to put on the clothes of a Christian, in water baptism, without first becoming a Christian (child of God through faith), then one becomes an imposter, and is declaring, in baptism, to be what they are not.

CONTINUED..

My eisegesis, with out twisting or adding words.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

When we get BAPTIZED INTO Christ means WE GO INTO HIM.

We have put ON Christ meaning he covers us.

Same wording in Romans 6,

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Verse 3 We are BAPTIZED INTO JESUS we are BAPTIZED into HIS death.

AND LIKE CHRIST WE walk in news of life.

Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These folks didn't know what baptism was for, look what happened to them.

Something happens in baptism? What is it?

 

[TrustandObey]

In Acts 2:38, , "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins,"

"for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses

This is such a desperate attempt at negating the clear meaning of a passage.

Why would Peter purposely speak in such a way? Why would Luke purposely write in such a way?

What you are doing is to force the reasoning for baptism into a "because of" rather then a "so that".

There are no Bibles, either old or new that translate this passage in such a way.

There are no Bibles in any language that translate this passage in such a way.

ERV Acts 2:38
Peter said to them, “Change your hearts and lives and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ. Then God will forgive your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

GWV Acts 2:38
Peter answered them, “All of you must turn to God and change the way you think and act, and each of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift.

ASV Acts 2:38
And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

What happened to "because of".

Would you seriously use this line of reasoning in other passages of the Bible?

Would you insist that Luke 5:4 be understood that Peter was commanded to go out unto deep waters and cast his nets "because of" the fish he caught?

 

[mailmandan]

"for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses

This is such a desperate attempt at negating the clear meaning of a passage.

Why would Peter purposely speak in such a way? Why would Luke purposely write in such a way?

What you are doing is to force the reasoning for baptism into a "because of" rather then a "so that".

There are no Bibles, either old or new that translate this passage in such a way.

There are no Bibles in any language that translate this passage in such a way.

ERV Acts 2:38
Peter said to them, “Change your hearts and lives and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ. Then God will forgive your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

GWV Acts 2:38
Peter answered them, “All of you must turn to God and change the way you think and act, and each of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift.

ASV Acts 2:38
And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

What happened to "because of".

Would you seriously use this line of reasoning in other passages of the Bible?

Would you insist that Luke 5:4 be understood that Peter was commanded to go out unto deep waters and cast his nets "because of" the fish he caught?

Once again, the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 20:21; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*

Be sure the check out post #1790 from the link to the thread below:

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-jesus-name-only-for-salvation.219173/page-90

 

[TrustandObey]

Once again, the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 20:21; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*

Be sure the check out post #1790 from the link to the thread below:

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-jesus-name-only-for-salvation.219173/page-90

You insist that in order for your "logical conclusion" to be true then Acts 2:38 must mean "because of" and not "so that".

The verse is simply not translated in the way you want it to be, so you justify your "because of" by your personal "harmonizing scripture with scripture". You are not harmonizing, you are negating. Your verses are at odds with your Faith Alone Regeneration Theology and not with Acts 2:38.

 

[mailmandan]

You insist that in order for your "logical conclusion" to be true then Acts 2:38 must mean "because of" and not "so that".

The verse is simply not translated in the way you want it to be, so you justify your "because of" by your personal "harmonizing scripture with scripture". You are not harmonizing, you are negating. Your verses are at odds with your Faith Alone Regeneration Theology and not with Acts 2:38.

Scripture MUST harmonize with scripture or else you have a contradiction and there are no contradictions in God's Word. I properly harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine and my verses are NOT at odds with Faith Alone Regeneration Theology but your biased interpretation of your pet verse is at odds with the multiple verses I cited.

No scripture is to be interpreted in isolation from the totality of scripture. Practically speaking, a singular obscure or ambiguous verse is to be subservient to multiple clear verses and not vice versa. *HERMENEUTICS.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You insist that in order for your "logical conclusion" to be true then Acts 2:38 must mean "because of" and not "so that".

The verse is simply not translated in the way you want it to be, so you justify your "because of" by your personal "harmonizing scripture with scripture". You are not harmonizing, you are negating. Your verses are at odds with your Faith Alone Regeneration Theology and not with Acts 2:38.

actually in the greek, it can be translated that way.

I would try to study the greek and then add this to the rest of the word.. Then interpret the word to harmonize with itself

 

[Lamar]

actually in the greek, it can be translated that way.

I would try to study the greek and then add this to the rest of the word.. Then interpret the word to harmonize with itself

Of course when you are attempting to protect a personal theology you can make any language mean whatever you want it to mean.

We do not need to reinvent the wheel, the New Testament has been translated into over 1700 languages.

None of the translations use "because of".

We do not need to individually spend years becoming fluent in Koine Greek.

This is just a ploy to confuse what is clearly written.

Acts 2:38 and many other verses cannot be harmonized to fit into Faith Alone Regeneration Theology, hence this theology's error.

"Because of" and "so that" are opposite and cannot be confused with each other.

Are you really insisting that every translation is wrong??? Really?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Of course when you are attempting to protect a personal theology you can make any language mean whatever you want it to mean.

Like you do?

We do not need to reinvent the wheel, the New Testament has been translated into over 1700 languages.

None of the translations use "because of".

We do not need to individually spend years becoming fluent in Koine Greek.

This is just a ploy to confuse what is clearly written.

Acts 2:38 and many other verses cannot be harmonized to fit into Faith Alone Regeneration Theology, hence this theology's error.

"Because of" and "so that" are opposite and cannot be confused with each other.

Are you really insisting that every translation is wrong??? Really?

Your right we do not. We just need to interpret it as is.

"For" the remission of sin.

the word "for" can be translated numerous ways

1. In order to recieve - "I called the doctor for a prescription"
2. Because or on account of - "I called the doctor for I was ill"

so now I just have to look at context. and the rest of the word.

Show me the word baptize or works in any of these gospel messages.

John 1: 11: 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (no works)

John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already (no works)

John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will NEVER THIRST. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE” (no works)

John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)

John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. HE WHO COMES TO ME shall NEVER HUNGER and he who BELIEVES IN ME shall NEVER THIRST (NO WORKS)

John 6: 37: and THE ONE WHO COMES TO ME I WILL BY NO MEANS CAST OUT 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, thatof all He has given Me I SHAL LOSE NOTHING, but SHOULD RAISE IT UP ON THE LAST DAY. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND I WILL (NOT MIGHT) RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY (NO WORKS)

John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that THAT ONE MAY EAT OF IT AND NOT DIE 51 am the living bread which came down from heaven. IF ANYONE EATS THIS BREAD HE WILL LIVE FOREVER (NO WORKS)

John 6: 63 It is the SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE ; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (SIGNIFYING THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, THE FLESH AND BOOD ARE THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE. NOT THE PHYSICAL FOOD OR WORKS,)

EPH 1: 13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED , after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also ,HAVING BELIEVED YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE 14 who IS THE GAURANTEE OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

THE INHERITANCE HE SAID WE ALREADY HAD IN THE 1ST 12 VERSES. (AGAIN, NO WORKS)

eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (NO WORKS)

rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (AGAIN NO WORKS. PERIOD)

rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)

Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO WORKS)

Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)

2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)

Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED US through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

Titus 1: 2 in HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE which GOD WHO CAN NOT LIE PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

this is what our faith is in, the grace and mercy of God. not our deeds.

 

[Lamar]

Your right we do not. We just need to interpret it as is.

"For" the remission of sin.

the word "for" can be translated numerous ways

1. In order to recieve - "I called the doctor for a prescription"
2. Because or on account of - "I called the doctor for I was ill"

so now I just have to look at context. and the rest of the word.

What Bible versions interprets Acts 2:38 as "because of"? Zero.

As you have mentioned this is about the Greek not the English "for".

You are fighting over 1700 versions of the New Testament in order to protect your faith alone regeneration theology.

You have no examples of Acts 2:38 translated as "because of" yet insist that we should "study the Greek"?

You then present verses that speak of the need for faith and use them to annul the need for repentance and baptism, labeling them as works.

Faith Alone Regeneration Theology is and has always been a theology without an example.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

What Bible versions interprets Acts 2:38 as "because of"? Zero.

As you have mentioned this is about the Greek not the English "for".

You are fighting over 1700 versions of the New Testament in order to protect your faith alone regeneration theology.

You have no examples of Acts 2:38 translated as "because of" yet insist that we should "study the Greek"?

You then present verses that speak of the need for faith and use them to annul the need for repentance and baptism, labeling them as works.

Faith Alone Regeneration Theology is and has always been a theology without an example.

You missed the point
I do not need to interpret it using the words because if. I just interpret the words
Paul told everyone to repent and they would receive the gift of the spirit . He then told them to be baptized into or for remission of sin
since they already had the gift of the spirit. They already had remission of sin
it’s not rocket science.

 

[GWH]

Personally, with a conversation like this, I like to try and strip it back to a few simple fundamental truths, rather than going down the analytical deep dive on many different bible verses route.

1. We are saved by grace and grace alone, our acts don't even come into it.
2. We can choose to accept or reject our salvation
3. If we accept, we should have a real relationship with God where we daily read the word, pray, and wait on Him

Everything else flows from that and brings us to a deeper understanding of God. If we allow the Holy Spirit to guide us daily, putting God at the center of our lives, then we'll start to see the fruits of the spirit. This is a conscious daily choice we make. Do we do that distracting thing the enemy is trying to use to make us complacent towards God, or do we pick up the bible and spent time with our Lord. For me, making the right choice daily is how to keep me grounded, and really claim my salvation.

You seem like someone who has also considered God's requirement for salvation for those who never heard of Jesus, which includes everyone living B.C. and millions of people who have lived A.D. If God loves the world (John 3:16) and wants everyone to be saved (2Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11), then He must provide an opportunity. God’s just judgment is illustrated by Jesus in the Parable of the Talents (Matt. 25:14-29), which indicates that God will judge souls on the basis of the truth (Word = Christ per John 1:1f.) they have received.

Two main ways God/Christ is encountered include:

1. General revelation - meditating on the natural world or God’s supernatural work and moral conscience. Paul said men are without excuse, both because God’s eternal power and divine nature (love) are manifested by creation (Rom. 1:20), and because a proto-gospel has been proclaimed to everyone under heaven implicitly or in pre-NT foreshadowings (Col. 1:23, Rom. 10:13-18, Gal. 3:8). He also taught that all normal humans have an inner conscience or “common” sense (Rom. 2:14-16), which manifests morality or a moral Authority in every culture. Thus, sinners have no excuse for not seeking God’s salvation or being truthseekers (Matthew 7:7, Hebrews 11:6).

2. Special revelation (1Pet. 1:8-12), which refers mainly to divinely inspired NT teaching regarding God’s history of salvation. Again, the Parable of the Talents indicates that souls are saved via faith in God/ Christ as revealed (cf. 1Cor. 10:1-5). Truthseekers around the world in all times are pilgrims at various places along the road of life, and all true roads eventually lead to the Way to eternal life in heaven (John 14:6, Acts 24:14, Phil. 2:10-11). All truth leads to One Way.

 

[timf]

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

[Beckworth]

You seem like someone who has also considered God's requirement for salvation for those who never heard of Jesus, which includes everyone living B.C. and millions of people who have lived A.D. If God loves the world (John 3:16) and wants everyone to be saved (2Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11), then He must provide an opportunity. God’s just judgment is illustrated by Jesus in the Parable of the Talents (Matt. 25:14-29), which indicates that God will judge souls on the basis of the truth (Word = Christ per John 1:1f.) they have received.

Two main ways God/Christ is encountered include:

1. General revelation - meditating on the natural world or God’s supernatural work and moral conscience. Paul said men are without excuse, both because God’s eternal power and divine nature (love) are manifested by creation (Rom. 1:20), and because a proto-gospel has been proclaimed to everyone under heaven implicitly or in pre-NT foreshadowings (Col. 1:23, Rom. 10:13-18, Gal. 3:8). He also taught that all normal humans have an inner conscience or “common” sense (Rom. 2:14-16), which manifests morality or a moral Authority in every culture. Thus, sinners have no excuse for not seeking God’s salvation or being truthseekers (Matthew 7:7, Hebrews 11:6).

2. Special revelation (1Pet. 1:8-12), which refers mainly to divinely inspired NT teaching regarding God’s history of salvation. Again, the Parable of the Talents indicates that souls are saved via faith in God/ Christ as revealed (cf. 1Cor. 10:1-5). Truthseekers around the world in all times are pilgrims at various places along the road of life, and all true roads eventually lead to the Way to eternal life in heaven (John 14:6, Acts 24:14, Phil. 2:10-11). All truth leads to One Way.

Just a few observations about point #2. I couldn’t tell if you meant that we “encounter” God through the “prophets” and what they have revealed by special revelation, or that WE are the ones receiving the special revelation and encounter Him that way. I Peter 1:8-12 talks about the “prophets”receiving special revelation verse 12–“To THEM it was revealed…” If that is what you are saying, then yes, I agree that we benefit from their special revelation. Especially as it is written down for us in the word of God. So, actually apart from the Bible, we can only “see” God in His creation. We can learn that He IS, that He exists. But with the word of God, the book that he has revealed to us we can really get to know God.
2 Timothy 3:16, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable…for every good work. It is all we need. He says it is complete and is all we need to get to heaven.

In Hebrews 1, God says that “IN THE PAST, in VARIOUS WAYS, He spoke to people ( our ancestors) by the prophets (?thru their special revelations) BUT ( shows contrast), has in these “LAST DAYS”, that’s NOW. We are presently living in the “LAST DAYS.”, He now speaks to us by HIS SON, Jesus the Christ. So, yes, IN THE PAST, God spoke to people by prophets, in dreams, visions, directly from heaven or “inner voices”— various ways , But now, in this time period in which we live, He speaks to us through His Son. Couple this verse with 1 Corinthians 2:16 which says that “we have the MIND of CHRIST.” Where? In the WORD. The Bible, the word of God is sufficient for us today. In it God has told us all we need to know. He says it “thoroughly” furnishes us with every good work— both for this life and the life to come.

I’m not sure I agree with your last sentence. It sounds like you are saying that all roads lead to heaven or that there are many different roads all leading to heaven. Maybe I am misunderstanding you. But, I believe the Bible teaches that there is only one way or road to heaven. The Word only portrays 2 ways to go: one road leads to destruction, the other road to eternal life. I would agree that there are MANY different roads “SEEKING” heaven, or TRYING to get to heaven, but God says there is only ONE ROAD. It is called “ the WAY.” Acts 19:23 And the “the” in front of the word “way” means it is definitive, it is the only one. The Bible in many places condemns “division” among the followers of Christ. John 17, 1 Cor. 1. We must all be “United” with God and Christ and with each other in the “truth”. There is only ONE truth.

 

[Adstar]

Salvation is through Belief and Faith..

Believing The LORD Jesus..
And having Faith ( Trust ) in the atonement that Jesus secured on the cross.. Trusting that His atonement pays the penalty for ones sins..

 

[gb9]

Salvation is through Belief and Faith..

Believing The LORD Jesus..
And having Faith ( Trust ) in the atonement that Jesus secured on the cross.. Trusting that His atonement pays the penalty for ones sins..

and, it is that simple.

the works salvationists don't like this and start creating all kinds of hoops to jump through to get there...

 

[mailmandan]

and, it is that simple.

the works salvationists don't like this and start creating all kinds of hoops to jump through to get there...

Amen! That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works is not hard to understand. (Ephesians 2:8,9) It's just hard for works salvationists to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow works salvationists to place their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6) Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.

 

[Karlon]

Which would include that he is the Son of God? This is all that I can gather from a reading of John 3:14-18 (KJV) when reading it honestly and not trying to bend words into it. What I am struck by is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and to a smaller extent Romans 3:21-26 and Romans 10:9, which seem to put a different emphasis on salvation. In 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 the gospel seems to be the object of belief, that one is saved by believing the gospel, which I suppose might not be what Paul is trying to communicate. In Romans 3:25 it seems to be saying that salvation comes by faith in Jesus' blood when read a certain way, though, this verse and surrounding verses can be read another way to be completely in line with how I read John 3. In Romans 10:9 in the KJV it says that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. This makes sense too considering John 3 since if you believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead you would believe in Jesus, along with confessing him with your mouth (I cannot read these words the way they are put forth in the NIV and ESV, "that if you confess with your mouth "Jesus is Lord" and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved", they don't read like that to me, though I am not saying that that is not what they mean, and I understand they are translating from the Greek), though I don't understand why the "goal post" is moved here from belief in Jesus to something else, though the preceding verses seem to necessitate the language.

The solace in this is that all these issues can be reconciled in that none of these verses can contradict the point of view that belief in Jesus alone is what constitutes salvation, i.e. there is no problem. It is just disconcerting reading these things when I am not entirely sure what constitutes salvation myself, though I lean towards the view that it is belief in Jesus alone, because I don't see how John 3 can be read any other way. I could use some major help in understanding the truth in this. What does constitute salvation? When answering this question please address the things I've written. And please no posts from gotquestions or copy and pastes from other websites unless you have read those materials and agree with what they're saying, but if you do why not put it into your own words? I don't like the regurgitation of materials on the internet and the standard it sets for people to not understand things themselves.

On the topic of gotquestions, they seem to be in line with the belief that it is faith in Jesus' blood that constitutes salvation, though, like I wrote, when I read John 3, I don't see how that is the case.

When responding to me please be patient, I am sincerely trying to understand.

no, not faith in Jesus alone. include the father who is God & the Holy Spirit!

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Amen! That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works is not hard to understand. (Ephesians 2:8,9) It's just hard for works salvationists to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow works salvationists to place their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6) Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.

amen

not by works of righteousness which we have done (like water baptism) but by his mercy he saved us (titus 3: 5)

 

[Adstar]

and, it is that simple.

the works salvationists don't like this and start creating all kinds of hoops to jump through to get there...

I don't understand the thinking of the works salvationist.. The Bible makes it clear all our good works are as filthy rags..

(Isaiah 64:6) "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

Now there will be those who will be called Great in the kingdom of Heaven and those who will be called least in the kingdom of heaven and our good works may indeed play a part in that.. But actual Salvation.. Our works play no role in us actually entering into Gods perfect eternal existence.. I believe those who do more good works will build up more treasures in eternity more then others who have done less works.. But when people make their works part of the Mix in then attaining eternity with God i believe they have failed to trust completely in the sufficiency of the Atonement of the LORD Jesus to Redeem us. They are believing in another Gospel in another Jesus..

(Matthew 6:19-20) "¶ Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: {20} But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:"