Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

Everyone who had been prepared for everlasting life believed.

Who prepared them? Did they prepare themselves, in your theology? Perhaps circumcised their own hearts?

 

[Cameron143]

rolleyes ... no one has claimed that Adam "sacrificed" himself ... all agree Adam sinned ... what has been claimed is that Adam ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and became one flesh with his wife after she ate of the tree.

God is the One Whose offering was "sacrificed" for both Adam and Eve. Apparently, God's sacrifice was insufficient in your eyes ... smh ...
.

Better check with @cv5 before you go on with this claim.

 

[beccaa]

I believe we do have free will, but it’s definitely shaped by our environment, upbringing, even our emotional state. Lately I’ve been using an app that helps me slow down before making choices.. just to pause, pray, and ask what God really wants. That space has helped me notice how much I act on habit without thinking.

 

[Magenta]

You are again applying verses that speak of natural revelation to the gospel. Two different things. In Romans 1, there is no mention of spiritual activity of God.
I went through Acts 2:37 and showed the activity of God in bringing an individual to faith. Accept it or don't. Many some are suppressing these truths.

It is amazing how people confuse knowing God exists with believing the gospel message.

 

[Magenta]

I believe we do have free will, but it’s definitely shaped by our environment, upbringing, even our emotional state. Lately I’ve been using an app that helps me slow down before making choices.. just to pause, pray, and ask what God really wants. That space has helped me notice how much I act on habit without thinking.

Having volition and making mundane choices is not what this "conversation" is about, Beccaa.
But I am glad to hear you are able to make changes in your life that bring improvements!

 

[Jordon]

Be honest Cameron. You're saying in the deterministic sense that God creates a new heart so men can believe because you believe in Reformed Total Depravity. You sneak in words of determinism and equate them to words that are not automatically deterministic. That's the shell game you've been accused of.

By the looks of things your hardest thing to digest is the meaning of total depravity.

Which is understandable as what person can accept that, but really whilst it's easy to put your own feelings above What's the word says and whilst it's also easy to have empathy for a person being thought of as totally depraved.

The reality is totally depraved is refering to a spiritual condition we are born into. whilst it could be easy to believe it's an insult directed at people who are in need of help or whilst its easy to believe this is a person forcing his beliefs upon you or that this is a person using his own determinism, it really isn't. And whilst it's then easy to think this is. A horrible reformed ideology, it's just a view point adding more meaning.

Perhaps you need time to digest and also need time to come to the harsh reality, but really the main underlying issue does not stem from man or God it's stems from the devil stealing Gods life..

All tho totally depravity seems harsh the totally depraved man is still able to hear from God through his enabling grace. Which really is quite beautiful that our God can break through the darkness and give a private message to anybody, and open your ears at the same time.

I know it's a hard thing to understand and why should it be like that's it just doesn't seem fair. But the reality here is where talking about evil that has stolen mankind from God.

Which as you know a huge price has been payed to win back the souls of the lost.

 

[rogerg]

First, a little information re: Acts13:48 to show the translation "appoint" has not always been set in stone:

Chrysostom (4th c.)

• In his Homilies on Acts (Homily 29), he comments:
  • “Observe how he shows the Gentiles themselves also to be well-disposed (εὔθετοι) to receive the faith…”
  • Chrysostom interprets Acts 13:48 as describing those who were disposed/inclined toward eternal life, not as a decree of predestination.

Theophylact (11th c., Byzantine exegete)

• On Acts 13:48, he paraphrases:
  • “Those who were disposed to eternal life believed.”
  • Again, focus on human readiness/disposition under God’s convicting work.

Erasmus (16th c.)

• Rendered Acts 13:48 as:
  • “As many as were disposed to eternal life believed.”
  • He argued tassō here is in the middle/reflexive sense — “set themselves, disposed themselves.”

ASV (1901) margin note

• Even modern translations have preserved this:
  • “…as many as were ordained to eternal life believed” with a footnote: “Or, disposed.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The people who were not Jews were pleased with what they heard and praised the Lord's word. Everyone who had been prepared for everlasting life believed.

Mace New Testament
when the Gentiles heard this, they received the word with joy, glorifying the Lord: and as many as were dispos'd to eternal life, believed.

Bauer-Danker, Greek-English Lexicon of the NT (BDAG)
[BDAG] τάσσω (tassō) (main definition headings only):
1. to bring about an order of things by arranging, arrange, put in place
2. to give instructions as to what must be done, order, fix, determine, appoint (My Note: Note how "appoint" is defined)

There are reasons to inspect the translations here, no matter how many opted for "appointed" or "ordained".

I noticed the issue some time ago because I place great value on Acts13 as the most complete and comprehensive record of Paul's missionary evangelism message we have.

There's an interesting verb structure in Acts13:48 that Luke uses. One issue is that it's calling attention to this verb tassō. In the discussion about the verse that @cv5 linked, one of the participants picked this up. IMO it's important, unusual, and the timing and parsing of this verb Luke is using is very informative.

I'll continue as I have time.

Thanks, but save your time and effort, I'll go with the existing translations which have withstood scrutiny for years, over the expertise of amateur Greek/Hebrew grammar experts.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

God has a problem with the natural man

and yet God sends His faithful believers to preach the gospel to the "natural man" that "God has a problem with" ... hmmm ... could it be that God wants natural man to believe His Word and receive the blessing ... hmmm

.

 

[beccaa]

Having volition and making mundane choices is not what this "conversation" is about, Beccaa.
But I am glad to hear you are able to make changes in your life that bring improvements!

Thanks for the kind words . I know this topic runs deep and there are a lot of layers to it. I’m still learning and thinking through it all too. Grateful we can have these conversations here.

 

[Magenta]

Thanks for the kind words . I know this topic runs deep and there are a lot of layers to it. I’m still learning and thinking through it all too. Grateful we can have these conversations here.

People making mundane choices does not in any way address what the Bible teaches about man's will being enslaved to sin, blinded to the truth, unable to hear, incapable of submitting to and obeying God, being a lover of darkness, refusing to come into the light, hearing the gospel as foolishness, unable to receive or comprehend the spiritual things of God, to which he is opposed and to Whom he is hostile toward while under the power and influence of the devil, as is the whole world, out of which believers have been called. Thinking your will is free simply because you can choose what colour of socks to wear or what to have for lunch is a distraction from the real issue which deceives many. Those things have no bearing on the eternal fate of your soul, and mixing it in with what the Bible teaches about the estate of fallen man is not germane.

This is the crux of the conversation, such as it is, for it is out of man's nature that he makes choices, and it is with the heart that one believes... the free will proponents essentially assert that the incurably wicked heart of the natural/unregenerated man is free to choose to believe that which he is not only opposed to, but that which he can neither receive/accept nor comprehend. They have the man with zero wisdom acting wise to do God's will when Scripture says that man cannot. And their idea of wisdom is that person choosing to believe what they hear as foolishness. They reject what Jesus said about it being impossible for a bad tree to bring forth good fruit, and there are none good, no, not one! But they reject a whole slew of Scriptures from beginning to end of the Bible, such as nothing good lives in man's flesh, and flesh serves the law of sin, and brings forth fruit unto death, all in favor of a doctrine that has zero support in the Bible, with not one verse articulating what they prefer over what is actually said. In fact they routinely contradict and deny what is explicitly stated.

Colossians 2 v 8, Romans 16 v 18, Romans 10 v 2, Proverbs 19 v 2a ~ See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For I testify about them that they are zealous for God, but not on the basis of knowledge. Zeal is no good without knowledge. They teach as doctrine the precepts of men.

 

[HeIsHere]

Thanks, but save your time and effort, I'll go with the existing translations which have withstood scrutiny for years, over the expertise of amateur Greek/Hebrew grammar experts.

Translation: This could dismantle my presuppositions so I won't investigate further.

 

[HeIsHere]

Their God is too small.

I cannot think of a smaller "god' than the one who plays favorites.

 

[cv5]

First, a little information re: Acts13:48 to show the translation "appoint" has not always been set in stone:

Chrysostom (4th c.)

• In his Homilies on Acts (Homily 29), he comments:
  • “Observe how he shows the Gentiles themselves also to be well-disposed (εὔθετοι) to receive the faith…”
  • Chrysostom interprets Acts 13:48 as describing those who were disposed/inclined toward eternal life, not as a decree of predestination.

Theophylact (11th c., Byzantine exegete)

• On Acts 13:48, he paraphrases:
  • “Those who were disposed to eternal life believed.”
  • Again, focus on human readiness/disposition under God’s convicting work.

Erasmus (16th c.)

• Rendered Acts 13:48 as:
  • “As many as were disposed to eternal life believed.”
  • He argued tassō here is in the middle/reflexive sense — “set themselves, disposed themselves.”

ASV (1901) margin note

• Even modern translations have preserved this:
  • “…as many as were ordained to eternal life believed” with a footnote: “Or, disposed.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The people who were not Jews were pleased with what they heard and praised the Lord's word. Everyone who had been prepared for everlasting life believed.

Mace New Testament
when the Gentiles heard this, they received the word with joy, glorifying the Lord: and as many as were dispos'd to eternal life, believed.

Bauer-Danker, Greek-English Lexicon of the NT (BDAG)
[BDAG] τάσσω (tassō) (main definition headings only):
1. to bring about an order of things by arranging, arrange, put in place
2. to give instructions as to what must be done, order, fix, determine, appoint (My Note: Note how "appoint" is defined)

There are reasons to inspect the translations here, no matter how many opted for "appointed" or "ordained".

I noticed the issue some time ago because I place great value on Acts13 as the most complete and comprehensive record of Paul's missionary evangelism message we have.

There's an interesting verb structure in Acts13:48 that Luke uses. One issue is that it's calling attention to this verb tassō. In the discussion about the verse that @cv5 linked, one of the participants picked this up. IMO it's important, unusual, and the timing and parsing of this verb Luke is using is very informative.

I'll continue as I have time.

Bookmarked with the warmest regards.
Thank God for the wise men and scholars!

 

[cv5]

Translation: This could dismantle my presuppositions so I won't investigate further.

Give a prisoner a hacksaw and he doesn't know what do do with it I guess

 

[Magenta]

Let's see if we can get on equal footing for discussion.

Not possible with your ego always leading the way.

 

[HeIsHere]

First, a little information re: Acts13:48 to show the translation "appoint" has not always been set in stone:

Chrysostom (4th c.)

• In his Homilies on Acts (Homily 29), he comments:
  • “Observe how he shows the Gentiles themselves also to be well-disposed (εὔθετοι) to receive the faith…”
  • Chrysostom interprets Acts 13:48 as describing those who were disposed/inclined toward eternal life, not as a decree of predestination.

Theophylact (11th c., Byzantine exegete)

• On Acts 13:48, he paraphrases:
  • “Those who were disposed to eternal life believed.”
  • Again, focus on human readiness/disposition under God’s convicting work.

Erasmus (16th c.)

• Rendered Acts 13:48 as:
  • “As many as were disposed to eternal life believed.”
  • He argued tassō here is in the middle/reflexive sense — “set themselves, disposed themselves.”

ASV (1901) margin note

• Even modern translations have preserved this:
  • “…as many as were ordained to eternal life believed” with a footnote: “Or, disposed.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The people who were not Jews were pleased with what they heard and praised the Lord's word. Everyone who had been prepared for everlasting life believed.

Mace New Testament
when the Gentiles heard this, they received the word with joy, glorifying the Lord: and as many as were dispos'd to eternal life, believed.

Bauer-Danker, Greek-English Lexicon of the NT (BDAG)
[BDAG] τάσσω (tassō) (main definition headings only):
1. to bring about an order of things by arranging, arrange, put in place
2. to give instructions as to what must be done, order, fix, determine, appoint (My Note: Note how "appoint" is defined)

There are reasons to inspect the translations here, no matter how many opted for "appointed" or "ordained".

I noticed the issue some time ago because I place great value on Acts13 as the most complete and comprehensive record of Paul's missionary evangelism message we have.

There's an interesting verb structure in Acts13:48 that Luke uses. One issue is that it's calling attention to this verb tassō. In the discussion about the verse that @cv5 linked, one of the participants picked this up. IMO it's important, unusual, and the timing and parsing of this verb Luke is using is very informative.

I'll continue as I have time.

Unfortunately, the time, effort and information will not move those with the "god of salvation favoritism" however, for those of us

who roundly refute this god, it is much appreciated and very helpful!!

 

[Magenta]

I cannot think of a smaller "god' than the one who plays favorites.

Yes, we know how much you hate God while screaming about His sovereignty. Tell us something we do not already know. Please try to do it without puffing yourself up, like telling us you are defending God's character when you have slandered Him so many times.

 

[HeIsHere]

and yet God sends His faithful believers to preach the gospel to the "natural man" that "God has a problem with" ... hmmm ... could it be that God wants natural man to believe His Word and receive the blessing ... hmmm

.

Tall order >>>> "think" not possible when one's brain has been emotionally, psychologically captured by a false system of salvation and a certain belief they have been chosen for "divine favor salvation" above others.

Your post shows how nonsensical the system is, but it won't matter at all.

 

[cv5]

Better check with @cv5 before you go on with this claim.

What I said is that Adam effectively committed suicide to be with his now fallen bride in a calculated gambit to save both her and him, knowing full well the justice and mercy of his God. In other words, Adam knew EXACTLY what he was doing and why. And what he was doing was defeating Satan in a roundabout way.

His calculations were correct. The Greater Adam Who would be the necessary and effective and adequate sacrifice was prophesied immediately thereafter.

You failed to hear those awesome lectures that I posted? It's only perhaps 10 or 12 hours total. I have listened to them all (and the rest) at least 3 or 4 times apiece. Maybe 100 hours or so.

I guess that would be why I know exactly what I am talking about whereas you do not huh?

 

[BillyBob]

Have you noticed that every time anything is mentioned as [being received from God] Fwers start an argument. The argument goes like this:

• Sure scripture is talking about faith being given, just not saving faith, which is necessary for salvation.
• Sure scripture is talking about belief being given, just not saving belief which is necessary for salvation.

They are losing their grip, They all need to gather around cv5 and help support his outstretched arms, otherwise they will never prevail!