Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Cameron143 said:
I simply read the scriptures more closely than you. Reread the story. You will be able to tell me...You're right again...in your odd little way.
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I realize that Gideon was a living breathing human being with a will of his own, who willingly COMPLIED with the commands given him by God (despite the grave risk!), thereby making himself a candidate and volunteer for victory and glory, because I actually read the Scriptures rather than saying I read them and did not.

And the Calvinist lose another round. Ding ding!

[Jdg 6:18 KJV]
Depart not hence, I pray thee, until I come unto thee, and bring forth my present, and set [it] before thee. And he said, I will tarry until thou come again.

[Jdg 6:19 KJV]
And Gideon went in, and made ready a kid, and unleavened cakes of an ephah of flour: the flesh he put in a basket, and he put the broth in a pot, and brought [it] out unto him under the oak, and presented [it].

[Jdg 6:20 KJV]
And the angel of God said unto him, Take the flesh and the unleavened cakes, and lay [them] upon this rock, and pour out the broth. And he did so.

[Jdg 6:21 KJV]
Then the angel of the LORD put forth the end of the staff that [was] in his hand, and touched the flesh and the unleavened cakes; and there rose up fire out of the rock, and consumed the flesh and the unleavened cakes. Then the angel of the LORD departed out of his sight.

[Jdg 6:24 KJV]
Then Gideon built an altar there unto the LORD, and called it Jehovahshalom: unto this day it [is] yet in Ophrah of the Abiezrites.

[Jdg 6:25 KJV]
And it came to pass the same night, that the LORD said unto him, Take thy father's young bullock, even the second bullock of seven years old, and throw down the altar of Baal that thy father hath, and cut down the grove that [is] by it:

[Jdg 6:26 KJV]
And build an altar unto the LORD thy God upon the top of this rock, in the ordered place, and take the second bullock, and offer a burnt sacrifice with the wood of the grove which thou shalt cut down.

[Jdg 6:27 KJV]
Then Gideon took ten men of his servants, and did as the LORD had said unto him: and [so] it was, because he feared his father's household, and the men of the city, that he could not do [it] by day, that he did [it] by night.
 
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2-Corinthians-4-4.png

The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
 
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Blain said:
I think the issue arises when we talk about choosing salvation or the inability to do so, we are told in scripture many times to choose life or choose death we however cannot choose life in our natural fleshly state unless we are drawn to him first because before he does this we are slaves to our flesh only caring about the fleshly things but when a change begins inside someone drawing them to the light this is when we can choose either life or death.

At least this is my understanding of it
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Standard Calvinist bafflegab mind-numbing garbage.

Throw it all in the dumpster and start over.

When the legit true gospel is preached to ANYBODY, it has the POWER to save.

Period.
 
Romans8-38-39-Psalm91-11s.png

Romans 8 verses 38-39 plus Psalm 91 verse 11 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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Psalm-34-7-Hebrews1-14s.png

Psalm 34 verse 7 Hebrews 1 verse 14 The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear Him, and he delivers them. Are not the angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?
 
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Magenta said:
2-Corinthians-4-4.png

The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
Click to expand...
Gods remedy?

John 16:8
And He, when He comes, will convict the world regarding sin, and righteousness, and judgment:

For every evil of man or Satan........God has a remedy.

Start looking at the remedy GOD has provided.
 
cv5 said:
I realize that Gideon was a living breathing human being with a will of his own, who willingly COMPLIED with the commands given him by God (despite the grave risk!), thereby making himself a candidate and volunteer for victory and glory, because I actually read the Scriptures rather than saying I read them and did not.

And the Calvinist lose another round. Ding ding!

[Jdg 6:18 KJV]
Depart not hence, I pray thee, until I come unto thee, and bring forth my present, and set [it] before thee. And he said, I will tarry until thou come again.

[Jdg 6:19 KJV]
And Gideon went in, and made ready a kid, and unleavened cakes of an ephah of flour: the flesh he put in a basket, and he put the broth in a pot, and brought [it] out unto him under the oak, and presented [it].

[Jdg 6:20 KJV]
And the angel of God said unto him, Take the flesh and the unleavened cakes, and lay [them] upon this rock, and pour out the broth. And he did so.

[Jdg 6:21 KJV]
Then the angel of the LORD put forth the end of the staff that [was] in his hand, and touched the flesh and the unleavened cakes; and there rose up fire out of the rock, and consumed the flesh and the unleavened cakes. Then the angel of the LORD departed out of his sight.

[Jdg 6:24 KJV]
Then Gideon built an altar there unto the LORD, and called it Jehovahshalom: unto this day it [is] yet in Ophrah of the Abiezrites.

[Jdg 6:25 KJV]
And it came to pass the same night, that the LORD said unto him, Take thy father's young bullock, even the second bullock of seven years old, and throw down the altar of Baal that thy father hath, and cut down the grove that [is] by it:

[Jdg 6:26 KJV]
And build an altar unto the LORD thy God upon the top of this rock, in the ordered place, and take the second bullock, and offer a burnt sacrifice with the wood of the grove which thou shalt cut down.

[Jdg 6:27 KJV]
Then Gideon took ten men of his servants, and did as the LORD had said unto him: and [so] it was, because he feared his father's household, and the men of the city, that he could not do [it] by day, that he did [it] by night.
Click to expand...
As usual, you end in the middle of the story. Keep reading. Some nice verses here...Judges 7:9-11.
 
Revelation20-13-15s.png

Revelation 20 v 13-15 The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death- the lake of fire. And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
 
Kroogz said:
The change has been made(way back in the garden).....Receive it or reject it. Life or death. Simple and straightforward.
Heb 4:12
For the word of God is living and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, even penetrating as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.”
John 12:32

John 16:8
And He, when He comes, will convict the world regarding sin, and righteousness, and judgment:

God did something about our predicament. John 3:16, Acts 16:31.
Click to expand...
Umm... no that isn't what I mean. I mean the change of a renewed heart.
See this is how it went for me I grew up hearing about God I went to church I prayed I knew a verse or two enough at least to know the basics and yet I knew I wasn't saved even though I had heard the gospel knew the verses went to church and prayed to God but even so I knew i wasn't saved why did I think this? Because I felt no life in me I cared more about my earthly possesssions
Kroogz said:
The change has been made(way back in the garden).....Receive it or reject it. Life or death. Simple and straightforward.
Heb 4:12
For the word of God is living and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, even penetrating as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.”
John 12:32

John 16:8
And He, when He comes, will convict the world regarding sin, and righteousness, and judgment:

God did something about our predicament. John 3:16, Acts 16:31.
Click to expand...
Umm... no that isn't what I mean. I mean the change of a renewed heart.
See this is how it went for me I grew up hearing about God I went to church I prayed I knew a verse or two enough at least to know the basics and yet I knew I wasn't saved even though I had heard the gospel knew the verses went to church and prayed to God but even so I knew i wasn't saved why did I think this? Because I felt no life in me I cared more about my earthly possesssions than I did God I was not willing to surrender everything to him even my own life. I could appear Godly yes but I was not saved it wasn't until I began to not see any meaning in life and began to become very depressed not caring if I died or lived that I was feeling that tug of the heart that pull towards God this was the change I am talking about

It is a supernatural impact of the soul you begin to see your life and everything you own as garbage you see no meaning in life as it is you don't even enjoy the usual things you normally enjoy instead your searching for something more something real even if only to have a reason to live you become desperate for it you would give anything for it and then you get to the point of utter surrender on your kneees in tears begging for him to come into your heart.

Only when you reach that point does your walls crumble and heart no longer hardened becomes pierced with his love and his power, the change you are speaking of is not the change that I am speaking of
 
cv5 said:
Standard Calvinist bafflegab mind-numbing garbage.

Throw it all in the dumpster and start over.

When the legit true gospel is preached to ANYBODY, it has the POWER to save.

Period.
Click to expand...
Actually no this is not always the case because some peoples hearts are not yet ready to receive it. Do you recall the parable of the sower of seeds? this is a prime example of the gospel being preached but the people recieving it were likened to the soil and ground some seeds landed on good soil and produced good fruits some landed on rocky soil and sprouted quickly but had no roots and thus withered and died others still landed on soil but the birds and createures picked at and ate the seeds up
 
Genez said:
The TULIP concept states that since man is totally depraved, that Grace must force us to believe.
Hence, "irresistible."
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You mean like a doctor or a paramedic would pick up the paddles and force a cardiac arrest victim to receive electric shock treatment to his heart to save his life?
 
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Cameron143 said:
Is not conviction an enablement? And isn't part of conviction giving understanding that once wasn't understood concerning their actions and estate before God?
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The gospel and the Spirit’s convicting work provide what’s necessary for a person to choose Christ, but they must choose to believe in Jesus Christ in order to receive life.
 
Kroogz said:
@Blain this whole thread is about the ability or inability to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for our salvation.

According to the reformed, we can make a choice to drink ourselves to death, eat ourselves to death, smoke ourselves to death.
Or make a choice to live long and prosper.

But GOD FORBID we make a choice of eternal death or eternal life [apart from efficacious grace of God]. Acts 16:31
Click to expand...

FTFY!
 
Cameron143 said:
As usual, you end in the middle of the story. Keep reading. Some nice verses here...Judges 7:9-11.
Click to expand...
But unlike you, I cared to posted the relevant passages highlighting the volition and initiative demonstrated by Gideon that the Calvinists wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. Proving conclusively that men ARE both able and willing to hear God and serve Him.

Because you see, I wouldn't dare edit the scripture to suit some bogus unbiblical doctrine.
 
Blain said:
Umm... no that isn't what I mean. I mean the change of a renewed heart.
See this is how it went for me I grew up hearing about God I went to church I prayed I knew a verse or two enough at least to know the basics and yet I knew I wasn't saved even though I had heard the gospel knew the verses went to church and prayed to God but even so I knew i wasn't saved why did I think this? Because I felt no life in me I cared more about my earthly possesssions

Umm... no that isn't what I mean. I mean the change of a renewed heart.
See this is how it went for me I grew up hearing about God I went to church I prayed I knew a verse or two enough at least to know the basics and yet I knew I wasn't saved even though I had heard the gospel knew the verses went to church and prayed to God but even so I knew i wasn't saved why did I think this? Because I felt no life in me I cared more about my earthly possesssions than I did God I was not willing to surrender everything to him even my own life. I could appear Godly yes but I was not saved it wasn't until I began to not see any meaning in life and began to become very depressed not caring if I died or lived that I was feeling that tug of the heart that pull towards God this was the change I am talking about

It is a supernatural impact of the soul you begin to see your life and everything you own as garbage you see no meaning in life as it is you don't even enjoy the usual things you normally enjoy instead your searching for something more something real even if only to have a reason to live you become desperate for it you would give anything for it and then you get to the point of utter surrender on your kneees in tears begging for him to come into your heart.

Only when you reach that point does your walls crumble and heart no longer hardened becomes pierced with his love and his power, the change you are speaking of is not the change that I am speaking of
Click to expand...
Hearing the word. The Holy Spirit convicting. Then believing in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Reformed/calvie/tulip theory has the crack head who has never even heard the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ instantly saved on his next hit.
 
studier said:
The gospel and the Spirit’s convicting work provide what’s necessary for a person to choose Christ, but they must choose to believe in Jesus Christ in order to receive life.
Click to expand...
They must first be enabled to receive the spiritual things of God. The unregenerated man cannot. He is opposed to them.

Oh, believe me, I know you are a major offender in rewriting 1 Cor 2:14.

Still, I believe what it says even if you don't.

Receive, understand, submit, and obey.

Yeah. The natural man can neither submit nor obey, either.

You have the God hater submitting and obeying while under the power and influence of Satan.

That is really how screwy your self-exalting theology is!
 
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Genez said:
Where are you getting your mantra from?

They were not forced into believing.
They were forced into a position of being able to choose.
They chose as their flesh squirmed remained crushed by grace, so the soul could make a decsion.

And, again?

You appear to have an unjust God in your thinking,
For it is God's will that all believe.
Yet, not all get saved by forcing them to believe.
And, God get's what He wants = sovereignty.

For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him ​
shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.” John 6:40​

God is not a gang leader.
Not a macho God.
You appear to think He is.

"What the Boss wants?
The Boss gets!"
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But once in the visible, eternal kingdom the saints will discover that God will "force" them to sin no longer. How are you personally going to survive in such a holy environment? How will you feel when you find out that you cannot choose to sin any longer? How will you respond to God finally setting you free FROM the presence and power of sin forever and ever? You will hate the eternal kingdom when you discover that God has turned you into a mindless "robot".
 
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