Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Rufus said:
FTFY!
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"Rescuing, saving grace is the only Cause necessary to produce faith"

False. Grace is definitely not the necessary cause to produce faith.
Nor is grace the currency by which sin debt is paid.
Nor is grace the substitutionary element whereby justice is served.

Not a very artful dodge BTW.

[Rom 4:16 KJV]
Therefore [it is] of faith, that [it might be] by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
 
Magenta said:
Grace enables volition. Before that you are a slave to sin. And not just a slave to sin but INCAPABLE of submitting to
God, hostile in your mind towards Him, refusing to come into the light, a lover of darkness, opposed to the spiritual
things of God. Gosh. So very many verses you free will folks love to contradict and deny, it somewhat boggles the mind!

Romans16-16-Titus3-3-John8-34.png

Romans 16:16, Titus 3:3, John 8:34 ~ Do you not know that when you offer yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness? For at one time we too were foolish, disobedient, misled, and enslaved to all sorts of desires and pleasures. Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. A slave is not a permanent member of the family, but a son belongs to it forever.”
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My heart sits right with the belief that God does indeed enable us to believe through fork using us,

It's doesn't sit right it's the other way round.

Empowering grace irresistible grace, I get stuck on. Im not sure they should be treated differently really.
 
Rufus said:
Now you're catching on! There are professing Christians here who seem to think God exists for their pleasure. :rolleyes:
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well I can be slow to catch on sometimes, but I have to know a person before I can make that decision, as people can say one thing but mean another.

It's just best to share God rather than think he's just your God I think that's where it goes wrong for some

Peace
 
Jordon said:
My heart sits right with the belief that God does indeed enable us to believe through for for-knowing us,

It's doesn't sit right it's the other way round.

Empowering grace irresistible grace, I get stuck on. Im not sure they should be treated differently really.
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oops edited @Magenta lol..

Sorry lol 😂

I guess I'm asking for your input on that
 
studier said:
Grace precedes faith, as non-monergists consistently affirm.

2 Timothy 1:9 addresses neither faith nor the temporal reception of grace. It speaks of grace given in Christ before times eternal, pointing to God’s pre-temporal salvation plan.

God placed salvation grace in Christ before time, and in time He saves and calls individuals into that grace through union with Christ—in Christ—by faith.

This union is entered volitionally; Scripture, including Ecclesiastes, issues real commands to the human will and consistently engages volition to respond.

Grace precedes, but it does not override volition.
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2Tim 1:9 doesn't need to address "the temporal reception of grace" because God gave that Grace to his chosen people in eternity, which guaranteed the elect's "temporal reception". Can anything in this universe thwart God's purpose?

God gave that Grace to his elect ("US") in Christ before time began. And the fact that the grace was given to specific individuals in Christ, tells us that God chose specific people in Christ also before the foundation of the world. The world is not in Christ! Did God make the New Covenant with the entire world? Or did He make that covenant with God's covenant people? Or did God promise to instill the fear of Himself into the entire world or with just his covenant people?
 
Jordon said:
oops edited @Magenta lol..

Sorry lol 😂

I guess I'm asking for your input on that
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No worries Jordon and thank you for all your input into this thread! I'm just out right now having my morning coffee ... yes I'm running behind LOL... I had a very slow start to the day and then did a few extra things at home before venturing out on this beautiful day that the Lord has made, but when I read your last Post before this one I thought of a panel I wanted to post to you about how nobody can come to God unless they have been enabled, but I don't have access to those things right now... I'm just on my phone and all that sort of thing is on my laptop...
 
Jordon said:
well I can be slow to catch on sometimes, but I have to know a person before I can make that decision, as people can say one thing but mean another.

It's just best to share God rather than think he's just your God I think that's where it goes wrong for some

Peace
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It only "goes wrong" for the detractors of the Reformed Faith since they are most prone to lie about what the Reformed actually believe. I can tell you (and I'm not boasting) that I consistently support a few Reformed missionary efforts throughout this world, and I know from my own experience that no one is more zealous to win souls for Christ than those of the Reformed Faith. We consider it a great privilege and honor to participate in the Lord's work of evangelism.
 
Colossians1-13s.png

Colossians 1 verse 13 ~ He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of His beloved Son.
 
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2-Corinthians4-5-7.png

2 Corinthians 4 verses 5-7 ~ We do not proclaim ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made His light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Now we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this surpassingly great power is from God and not from us.
 
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Rufus said:
It only "goes wrong" for the detractors of the Reformed Faith since they are most prone to lie about what the Reformed actually believe. I can tell you (and I'm not boasting) that I consistently support a few Reformed missionary efforts throughout this world, and I know from my own experience that no one is more zealous to win souls for Christ than those of the Reformed Faith. We consider it a great privilege and honor to participate in the Lord's work of evangelism.
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I guess so but I don't really consider myself to be of any reformed faith and I have not had enough experience with people from reformed faiths. to know any different.

I say I guess so because I know some faiths are mostly branches of separations from a particular faith.

The great reformation being the greatest,

Things can go wrong for many reason but a person can be lead to be believe reformed faiths of say your faith without even realising it, I believe its mostly probably happens because people just haven't studied enough, or perhaps it's a hard thing to accept at first, as in all the things you believe from your faith.

Have to keep that overhead projector on.
 
cv5 said:
"Rescuing, saving grace is the only Cause necessary to produce faith"

False. Grace is definitely not the necessary cause to produce faith.
Nor is grace the currency by which sin debt is paid.
Nor is grace the substitutionary element whereby justice is served.

Not a very artful dodge BTW.

[Rom 4:16 KJV]
Therefore [it is] of faith, that [it might be] by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
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The above passage supports my premise. Thanks for posting it.

So, since you don't believe we are saved by grace, then you must believe we are saved by our "freewill"? Our "freewill" is what put us in Christ?

Also, "grace is the currency by which the sin debt is paid"! Don't you know that Grace JUSTIFIES a sinner (Rom 3:24)? If justification doesn't pay our sin debt, then what does?
 
For Rufus... I am looking through my post stream to see if I can find that 1 for Jordon...
Psalm36-1-4.png

Psalm 36 verses 1-4 ~ An oracle is in my heart regarding the transgression of the wicked man: There is no fear of God before his eyes. For his eyes are too full of conceit to detect or hate his own sin. The words of his mouth are wicked and deceitful; he has ceased to be wise and well-doing. Even on his bed he plots wickedness; he sets himself on a path that is not good; he fails to reject evil.
 
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Magenta said:
2-Corinthians4-5-7.png

2 Corinthians 4 verses 5-7 ~ We do not proclaim ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made His light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Now we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this surpassingly great power is from God and not from us.
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I take it that was the scrioture.you where looking for.

Thanks for that, quite beautiful.

I'm glad I asked. Thanks 👍 😊 ♥️
 
Jordon said:
I take it that was the scrioture.you where looking for.

Thanks for that, quite beautiful.

I'm glad I asked. Thanks 👍 😊 ♥️
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Oh you are very welcome! but no I did not find The One I was looking for ... the one I was looking for has quite a few Scriptures on it, but the main one is about being enabled... about the necessity of being enabled before one approaches God... I will post it to you for sure when I get home.
 
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Rufus said:
Don't you know that Grace JUSTIFIES a sinner (Rom 3:24)?
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only when you rip the verse from the context within which the Author of Scripture placed it ...

Romans 3:

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
.
 
Magenta said:
Oh you are very welcome! but no I did not find The One I was looking for ... the one I was looking for has quite a few Scriptures on it, but the main one is about being enabled... about the necessity of being enabled before one approaches God... I will post it to you for sure when I get home.
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oh well it should be t clearly say God made the light shine in my heart 😊

It should I say stuck a fork in me haha
 
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