Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

from Romans 5 verse 10 / John 8 verses 31b-32 / Ephesians 5 verse 8 / 1 Thessalonians 5 verse 5 / Romans 6 verse 18 / John 8 verse 36 ~ While we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to Him through the death of His Son. “If you continue in My word, you are truly My disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” You were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light. You are all sons of the light and sons of the day; we do not belong to the night or to the darkness. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. If the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

 

[Magenta]

from Ephesians 4 verses 17-19 ~ Gentiles walk in the futility of their thinking. They are darkened in their understanding and alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts. Having lost all sense of shame, they have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity, with a craving for more.

 

[Magenta]

Colossians 2 v 8, Romans 16 v 18, Romans 10 v 2, Proverbs 19 v 2a ~ See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For I testify about them that they are zealous for God, but not on the basis of knowledge. Zeal is no good without knowledge.

 

[studier]

It's no mere theory. God gave his grace to his elect in eternity (2Tim 1:9). Nor did Paul ever teach that God gave his grace to the entire world in eternity. Know why? Because He never decreed that the entire world be in a personal, loving, intimate, filial, covenant relationship with Him. But He did decree that all of Abraham's spiritual descendants would be!

Grace precedes faith, as non-monergists consistently affirm.

2 Timothy 1:9 addresses neither faith nor the temporal reception of grace. It speaks of grace given in Christ before times eternal, pointing to God’s pre-temporal salvation plan.

God placed salvation grace in Christ before time, and in time He saves and calls individuals into that grace through union with Christ—in Christ—by faith.

This union is entered volitionally; Scripture, including Ecclesiastes, issues real commands to the human will and consistently engages volition to respond.

Grace precedes, but it does not override volition.

 

[cv5]

Eve was the one who desired the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil ... she saw ... pleasant to the eyes ... desired to make one wise:

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Adam willingly ate of the fruit at the behest of his wife ... Adam followed the commandment in Gen 2:24.





fear of death is not the reason for man's bondage to sin ...

death is the result of man's bondage to sin. however, even if a person could go his or her lifetime without sinning ... that still would not save him or her from the lake of fire ... salvation is wholly by grace through faith.

And salvation is freely given to those who believe the gospel of Christ:

Romans 1:16-19 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness
.

Eve was successfully seduced by Satan's lies. That was the spark that lit her desire. She was duped into thinking that God was withholding a number of facts and truths.

And she believed Satan, who basically called God a liar, evel, and the originator of evil.

 

[cv5]

He is one who has claimed that for God to act unilaterally makes Him
an unjust tyrannical monster kidnapping people against their will.
He has said other quite blasphemous things about God also.

No not really.
In fact God never, ever acts unilaterally as far as individual salvation is concerned.

It is the super-determinist who wrongly believe this.

 

[studier]

All commands are an appeal to the volition of man.

Is this a new view of yours? Or is this how you approach commands being declarative vs. imperatival, which I think I recall discussing with you in the past?

 

[Magenta]

Grace precedes, but it does not override volition.

Grace enables volition. Before that you are a slave to sin.

John 3 verses 19-20 and from Psalm 10 verse 4 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of Light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. The wicked reviles the Lord

 

[cv5]

Grace precedes faith, as non-monergists consistently affirm.

2 Timothy 1:9 addresses neither faith nor the temporal reception of grace. It speaks of grace given in Christ before times eternal, pointing to God’s pre-temporal salvation plan.

God placed salvation grace in Christ before time, and in time He saves and calls individuals into that grace through union with Christ—in Christ—by faith.

This union is entered volitionally; Scripture, including Ecclesiastes, issues real commands to the human will and consistently engages volition to respond.

Grace precedes, but it does not override volition.

"This union is entered volitionally"

Certainly. This is the very nature of the covenant that we enter into.

 

[Magenta]

From: John 8 verse 34; 2 Peter 2 verse 19a; Galatians 4 verse 8; Romans 7 verse 14; Ephesians 2 verse 3b; Romans 6 verse 6 ~ “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.” They are slaves of corruption. When you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. You were of the flesh, sold under sin. We were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. Our old self was crucified so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

 

[Magenta]

Grace enables volition. Before that you are a slave to sin. And not just a slave to sin but INCAPABLE of submitting to
God, hostile in your mind towards Him, refusing to come into the light, a lover of darkness, opposed to the spiritual
things of God. Gosh. So very many verses you free will folks love to contradict and deny, it somewhat boggles the mind!

Romans 16:16, Titus 3:3, John 8:34 ~ Do you not know that when you offer yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness? For at one time we too were foolish, disobedient, misled, and enslaved to all sorts of desires and pleasures. Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. A slave is not a permanent member of the family, but a son belongs to it forever.”

 

[lrs68]

It's upto you to how you believe, but many times more over one scriptures makes you search for other scriptures to find a meaning.

In the scripture you've mentioned the term he chose us before the foundations of the word has implementations in many places not just one.

So it wouldn't be wise for me to just lean on just one conclusion,

But those many times in the Bible have always referred to the ancient Hebrew People. So why would you add something else?

 

[Jordon]

But those many times in the Bible have always referred to the ancient Hebrew People. So why would you add something else?

it's not in my nature to add something else or should I say add something that shouldn't be added.

But in christ he chose us before the world was made.

Us here refering to people, people whom he chose to be saved before he made the world.

Us refering to people, people using the term us, not the term us Jews


They didn't say he chose us Jews and no one else they said us.

Without bringing up many scripture obtaining to God knowing who are his sheep who will saved, who's names will be written in lambs book of life, or the vision John was made to of all the souls who will parish.

Or the many scriptures of God for knowing everyone

It wouldn't be wise to believe the word us means just those select people at that time.

But really Jew or gentile God has made no distinction.

The only really distinction is first cane the Jew then the gentile.

Peace

 

[Rufus]

I take it that you are an ancient Hebrew Jew!

He's probably Abraham's great, great, great granddaddy.

 

[Rufus]

Ok. So now we know that you declare that the gospel message is faith [BY] GRACE.

Is that what all of your compatriots think to be true?

FTFY!

 

[Jordon]

But those many times in the Bible have always referred to the ancient Hebrew People. So why would you add something else?

so the scripture refering to who's names are written in the book of only refers to the Hebrews ?

Can you back that up ?

 

[Rufus]

Some’ can certainly include the vast majority—it's intentionally ambiguous. Nothing you’ve said negates that Ecclesiastes issues real commands to the human will. And when you used the word ‘want,’ you invoked volition—you didn’t bypass it

What's "intentionally ambiguous": That virtually the entire world hates Christ, his disciples, his Law, his gospel, his truth, knowledge, wisdom, understanding?

Also, man's responsibility to obey God perfectly doesn't negate Rom 3:18 either.

I have never denied that God's image-bearers are equipped with volitions, just as our Creator is. But What I have steadfastly denied that human beings are mutable creatures, unlike our Creator!

 

[Rufus]

It isn't?
I'll stick with what He said thanks.

Then why don't you believe that the gracious, efficacious gift of the Fear of God is prerequisite to belief?

 

[Rufus]

Eve was the one who desired the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil ... she saw ... pleasant to the eyes ... desired to make one wise:

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Adam willingly ate of the fruit at the behest of his wife ... Adam followed the commandment in Gen 2:24.





fear of death is not the reason for man's bondage to sin ...

death is the result of man's bondage to sin. however, even if a person could go his or her lifetime without sinning ... that still would not save him or her from the lake of fire ... salvation is wholly by grace through faith.

And salvation is freely given to those who believe the gospel of Christ:

Romans 1:16-19 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness
.

So a just and righteous God would punish the sinless innocent? On what judicial basis?

 

[Rufus]

It sounds he favours independence unilaterally, I wouldn't be surprised if he goes round town shouting follow me thinking he's moses

Now you're catching on! There are professing Christians here who seem to think God exists for their pleasure.