Do you know what " right at the gate you fall flat on your face" means?
You have no CASE.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
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You have no CASE.
Both....
Without God granting enabling grace power?
There will be no "freed" will. (not free will - 'freed will.')
During God's drawing?...
God's grace enabling power is "sovereignly imposing" to suppress the effects of the fallen flesh over the soul.
In that state of God's imposed sovereignly over the flesh?
That soul while in that "freed" state, will be free of the domination of the flesh,
leaving the soul to do it's own thinking, be it for good, or evil.
That state is of God's sovereignly imposed grace endures God is finished testing that soul.
Once a choice is made? It goes on record.
Those who freely chose to know more about God?
They get drawn further down the path to salvation.
God's enabling power of His grace is the key.
Grace is not an approving feeling God presents to a soul.
It is an actual enabling power granted by God to make a crippled soul able to momentarily walk.
Where the soul decides to walk will determine the status of that soul.
grace and peace...
Yes! That is true!
Because, God will not allow for such a person to continue sinning endlessly.
God will take such a one, who won't repent of such sinning, home early!!!
If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death,
you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does
not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that
you should pray about that." 1 John 5:16
If they insist upon continuing to sin?
God will not allow for it to continue!
There is a sin that leads to death.
Yes... They will not be able to habitually continue to sin any longer.
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"Enabling" in your world doesn't = efficacy. So how can you say both when the vast majority of "FREED people (so-called) respond negatively to the gospel which tells me they reject Christ due to their bondage to sin, the world, the flesh and the devil? When God BESTOWS Grace upon people it always has a POSITIVE effect! Give me one example in scripture where God bestowed his saving power on anyone and that power failed. One example. For example, how many of Christ's miraculous healings failed?
But you have no understanding. You cannot come up with so much as one judicial reason. And you won't be able to because that would destroy one of FWers' major and ill-conceived complaints. You have to keep that complaint in your arsenal, otherwise you won't have much of anything else.
100% agreed.
And we will get grace upon grace, discipline and harsh discipline. Most believers "wake up."
And @Genez We cannot forget the fact( I know you don't) that this goes for our EVIL also........Religious, human good. Most concentrate on our sin, but if we say to ourselves " I will do my best."..........We are arguably in a worse spot then sinning.
No one who is truly born of God can continue in sin.
1 John 5:18
18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him.
NIV
I can't come up with ONE judicial reason, because your case is a FALSE PREMISE.
He paid for your sins and not for yours only but for the sins of the whole world.
Adams trespass affected all. MUCH MORE did the Grace gift go to ALL.
Get a clue: Many never = All. Nor does it ever = a Few.
Follow the parallels in colors:
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--
13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.
16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification.
17 For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous. (Rom. 5:12-19 NKJ)
Paul is taking language re: the many from the Tanakh and showing us that it means "all men".
Once again, among other things this is Federal Headship language - the one and the many - the many equating to all in the one.
It gets a little interesting at the end, but according to Paul, many does indeed mean all in this case.
the other grievous error is folding the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe into 1 Cor 2:14 when 1 Cor 2:14 is speaking of spiritual matters which go beyond the scope of the gospel ... carnal/fleshly believers consider the deeper spiritual matters discussed in 1 Cor 2:6-14 as foolishness ... and those who make an effort to explain are considered by some to be rewriting Scripture.
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One other thing before I call it a day. This is on the topic of what scriptures says about humility and how God gives grace only to the humble. What you man-loving, man-exalting FWers lack is that you don't know who your Federal Head is! And if you do, you are very dismissive of his life, ministry and death. Did not Jesus come into this world meek and lowly, as a HUMBLE servant of God!? Since God chose his elect IN Christ in eternity, then Christ's HUMILITY, as the Federal Head of the Father's elect, qualifies them (Col 1:12). EVERYTHING that God gives to his chosen people comes through the Son! There isn't one single thing that doesn't come through Jesus to God's chosen people.
But you FWers are so enamored with yourselves and the mighty power of your "freewill", you can't even remember that Christ is at the very core, the very corpus, the epicenter of all scripture.
But you FWers are so enamored with yourselves and the mighty power of your "freewill", you can't even remember that Christ is at the very core, the very corpus, the epicenter of all scripture.
Basic Limited Atonement interpretation.
Interesting plea to logic to insert an argument from silence.
The Unlimited Atonement interpretation doesn't require such schemes.
"Enabling" in your world doesn't = efficacy. So how can you say both when the vast majority of "FREED people (so-called) respond negatively to the gospel which tells me they reject Christ due to their bondage to sin, the world, the flesh and the devil? When God BESTOWS Grace upon people it always has a POSITIVE effect! Give me one example in scripture where God bestowed his saving power on anyone and that power failed. One example. For example, how many of Christ's miraculous healings failed?
Pre salvation grace = Enabling.
Post salvation grace =Efficacy.
Efficacy is God enabling and causing us to do His desired will after we are saved... (if we are willing.)
Enabling grace, in contrast, is God making us able to reveal our desire.
What we will desire while made to be free of the sin nature.
1 John says the born again believer does not continue in sin ... however, we still have this dead body which houses the new man (Eph 4:24; Col 3:10) within ... so we can still be tempted and drawn away from the Lord and enticed (James 1:14). The sin does not occur until we act upon the lust (James 1:15). But for that brief time we turn to check out whatever it is that enticed us, we are "in the flesh" and the sooner we turn back to the Lord, the better. Sometimes we do not turn back and we end up in sin ... then we confess our sins ... He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9).
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This is why I am here. If the calvies held this thread exclusively.........None would hear the Gospel from them.
And I Invite any reformed/calvie/tulip/determinist/election salvationist to point me to a post where they clearly and precisely gave the Gospel of Christ.
clearly he still believes the parable of the good samaritan is about the half dead victim of the thieves and not that he should behave as the good samaritan and apply the healing balm of God's Word to the hearts of those who read his rants ... just sayin'
Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
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In agreement...
Those who are needing to be saved are not required, not able to know spiritual truths.
As far as the Gospel?
Any hack can and will eventually come to know that he is a sinner. That's not spiritual truth.
He can also know by the nature of the creation itself, that there must be a God. Nature teaches that one.
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness
of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God
is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world
God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen,
being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Romans 1:18-20
The Gospel is not the same as teaching regenerate people spiritual truths.
To try to teach spiritual truths to an unregenerate person would be futile.