Israel.

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

It is possible, America is not on the list because during this time she will cease to exist as before. Many students of the Word see America as Mystery Babylon. When Revelation speaks of her burning and merchants who had once traded with her aghast at her destruction, that the Babylon described here really resembles our current society with the wickedness, lust, greed, sin, etc. In the Bible there was literal Babylon under Nebuchadnezzar, there was Rome as a type of Babylon, and then Revelation presents Mystery Babylon, a harlot. It's worth pondering.
Also, some say the reference to the coastlands of the seas may include Ametica. That, too is worth pondering. If the latter does include America, Jews from America will continue to leave as Anti-Semitism increases. It's unfortunately a lot like the Germany of the 30's and 40's. Some saw the writing on the walls as Hitler rose to power. Itvis of utmost importance, we listen to what our leaders are "really" saying and also what "our neighbors" are saying. There is radical change here now! These are definitely the last days. I hold little hope for our nation but hope for those we can reach within our nation. We are at acfever-pitch of apathy, complacency, and falling away!!!
When was the last time soneone from your workplace or social gathering invited you to church or spoke of what was happening at their church? When was the last time if you were absent from church or had an ill family member somebody followed up. Yes, there are still some, but greatly decreased. The Church, in America, has lost its influence. When we don't stand, we fall! God has no choice but to punish America for her sins. We who were once His beacon tovother nations have missionaries coming here.

The Babylon in the book of Revelation is a city, not a whole nation, so I'm not convinced that this is about the US.

A lot of people want the US to be beaten down and discouraged and this is why a lot of them want this prophecy to be associated to the US.

We'll see which city God is talking about when it happens. I'm just not going to bother hoping it's a city I hate.

I don't know why we should be especially punished for our sins, when every country sins as well.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The Babylon in the book of Revelation is a city, not a whole nation, so I'm not convinced that this is about the US.

A lot of people want the US to be beaten down and discouraged and this is why a lot of them want this prophecy to be associated to the US.

We'll see which city God is talking about when it happens. I'm just not going to bother hoping it's a city I hate.

I don't know why we should be especially punished for our sins, when every country sins as well.

“The Babylon in the book of Revelation is a city, not a whole nation, so I'm not convinced that this is about the US.”

its a prophecy from the ot about jerusalem

 

[Melach]

Could you elaborate on this?

Why does it matter that Germany or America are not on the list?

I thought that particular prophecy was about God gathering the rest of the Jews to Israel during the Millennial age. Because right now there are still plenty of Jews outside of Israel.

Plus Isaiah 11 describes Jesus as a ruler and judge. That is His role when He comes back and reigns during the Millennial age. Right now, the Lord Jesus' current role is advocate and Savior.

it matters a great deal because as i have said before. will the real jews please stand up?

have you seen how these goofball rabbis look like? they are pale. some are even gingers. you cannot convince me through any means that these people's natural habitat is the middle-east. anywhere in the middle-east, not just the lands of the state of israel.

especially when in the bible the jews are never said to be white, but egyptian looking. even st.paul was mistaken for an egyptian and that is in the new testament after centuries of jewish history. you can believe its a grand prophecy fulfilled, i say maybe it is, but i have my suspicions. they have no genealogy, no dna link, no skin color match to the ancient israelites. all they have is the religion of judaism. a false religion that i could convert to right now and then i could make aliyah to israel and claim it as my homeland. see the problem?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Moreover, the LORD will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth; and there you shall serve other gods, wood and stone, which you or your fathers have not known. Among those nations you shall find no rest, and there will be no resting place for the sole of your foot; but there the LORD will give you a trembling heart, failing of eyes, and despair of soul. So your life shall hang in doubt before you; and you will be in dread night and day, and shall have no assurance of your life. Deuteronomy 28:64-66


“As a shepherd cares for his herd in the day when he is among his scattered sheep, so I will care for My sheep and will deliver them from all the places to which they were scattered on a cloudy and gloomy day. Ezekiel 34:12

“For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh


“I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries and bring them to their own land...

You understand israel was scattered by Babylon aroind 600 bc ? and then god gathered them back to the land ….before the messiah came with thier promised covenant and salvation ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It is good to look forward to God's future promises coming to pass, but I agree with you, we should also honor the current promises that God has already brought forth.

I'm really happy that God kept His promise to Israel about returning them back to the land right now. If He kept that promise, He will definitely keep His promises to me!

How did all the Jews get back to Jerusalem when Jesus came ? After they were conquered and expelled by Babylon into the nations ?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

it matters a great deal because as i have said before. will the real jews please stand up?

have you seen how these goofball rabbis look like? they are pale. some are even gingers. you cannot convince me through any means that these people's natural habitat is the middle-east. anywhere in the middle-east, not just the lands of the state of israel.

especially when in the bible the jews are never said to be white, but egyptian looking. even st.paul was mistaken for an egyptian and that is in the new testament after centuries of jewish history. you can believe its a grand prophecy fulfilled, i say maybe it is, but i have my suspicions. they have no genealogy, no dna link, no skin color match to the ancient israelites. all they have is the religion of judaism. a false religion that i could convert to right now and then i could make aliyah to israel and claim it as my homeland. see the problem?

*Shrug* I'm just gonna go with God concerning Israel. He would know more than anyone else.

God is not powerless or blind. Modern Israel is 77 years old - I would think God would have gotten rid of the current Jews living in Israel by now if He thought they were not descended from ancient Israel. But nope - they're stilling living there in Israel.

You can try telling God He's wrong about the current Jews in Israel, that they don't belong there. See what He says and will do about that.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

“The Babylon in the book of Revelation is a city, not a whole nation, so I'm not convinced that this is about the US.”

its a prophecy from the ot about jerusalem

The prophecy in Revelation says that Babylon will be utterly destroyed never to be inhabited again, but Jesus is suppose to reign from Jerusalem during the Millennial age. Plus there are other prophecies about all the nations coming to Jerusalem to give their respects to Jesus during this time.

I'm not convinced it's Jerusalem either.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The prophecy in Revelation says that Babylon will be utterly destroyed never to be inhabited again, but Jesus is suppose to reign from Jerusalem during the Millennial age. Plus there are other prophecies about all the nations coming to Jerusalem to give their respects to Jesus during this time.

I'm not convinced it's Jerusalem either.

Wouldn’t you want to see some of the prophecy I mentioned before you decided ? More information couldn’t hurt . There’s actually several of them but the one I’m thinking of is a long one starts like this

“Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,”
‭
Goes on to explain how god coal across Israel who was polluted and naked but he made them beautiful and into a kingdom pit a crown on her head dressed her with his beauty and entered into a covenant and she became his … ( Jerusalem is a woman he married by covenant in the prophecy )

But then the prophet begins announcing all Jerusalems abominations of idol worship many examples and it’s shown as a whorish woman who sleeps with all her neighbors and creates altars and high places for sacrifices to false gods he calls her a who’re and harlot many times then he explains he’s going to judge her like a harlot and destroy her …..then as always it ends with a promise of restoration and a new eternal covenant ( the gospel )

the point is it’s really a clear and glaring prophecy that shows who the city being destroyed is who’s riding in the beast it also shows the image of the beautiful woman appearing with a crown on her head and being clothed by the heavenly bodies

That was Jerusalem representing Israel and the twelve tribes. When god had made the covenant with them and the “ Babylon the mother of harlots “ ot also shows even her destruction by the ten horns is shown . I know you don’t like long posts with a lot of scripture but try ezekeil 16 and Ezekiel 22 there a small sample that’s not even getting into Jeremiah

in the ot there’s a consistent story about israel becoming and acting as a whore or adulterer revelation is an apocalypse it’s coming from those things established in the ot prophets

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Wouldn’t you want to see some of the prophecy I mentioned before you decided ? More information couldn’t hurt . There’s actually several of them but the one I’m thinking of is a long one starts like this

“Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,”
‭
Goes on to explain how god coal across Israel who was polluted and naked but he made them beautiful and into a kingdom pit a crown on her head dressed her with his beauty and entered into a covenant and she became his … ( Jerusalem is a woman he married by covenant in the prophecy )

But then the prophet begins announcing all Jerusalems abominations of idol worship many examples and it’s shown as a whorish woman who sleeps with all her neighbors and creates altars and high places for sacrifices to false gods he calls her a who’re and harlot many times then he explains he’s going to judge her like a harlot and destroy her …..then as always it ends with a promise of restoration and a new eternal covenant ( the gospel )

the point is it’s really a clear and glaring prophecy that shows who the city being destroyed is who’s riding in the beast it also shows the image of the beautiful woman appearing with a crown on her head and being clothed by the heavenly bodies

That was Jerusalem representing Israel and the twelve tribes. When god had made the covenant with them and the “ Babylon the mother of harlots “ ot also shows even her destruction by the ten horns is shown . I know you don’t like long posts with a lot of scripture but try ezekeil 16 and Ezekiel 22 there a small sample that’s not even getting into Jeremiah

in the ot there’s a consistent story about israel becoming and acting as a whore or adulterer revelation is an apocalypse it’s coming from those things established in the ot prophets

I keep coming back to the fact that King Jesus will rule from Jerusalem on David's throne during the Millennial age.

Revelation says that Babylon will be utterly destroyed, never to be inhabited. How can these two things be Jerusalem? Babylon is some other city.

Another indication that Babylon is not Jerusalem is that the all the kings and merchants of the world will weep and mourn for Babylon. No one is going to do that for Jerusalem if she get destroyed and made uninhabitable. They would be celebrating instead!

Jerusalem is not even a major port city like Babylon as described in Revelation.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I keep coming back to the fact that King Jesus will rule from Jerusalem on David's throne during the Millennial age.

Revelation says that Babylon will be utterly destroyed, never to be inhabited. How can these two things be Jerusalem? Babylon is some other city.

Another indication that Babylon is not Jerusalem is that the all the kings and merchants of the world will weep and mourn for Babylon. No one is going to do that for Jerusalem if she get destroyed and made uninhabitable. They would be celebrating instead!

Jerusalem is not even a major port city like Babylon as described in Revelation.

No Jerusalem was the chosen city of God to rule the earth as his people ….and then they worshipped the false gods and idols of all the nations around them .


You have to look at revelation from Gods perspective what’s established in the Bible by his word .

Here’s a short example innorder to inderrrsnd this apocalypse .

“And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭5:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That imagery and knowledge he’s seeing and hearing is coming from the things we already know in gods word do you see what I’m saying ?

aid we didint know about Jesus being the lamb of God and that he was crucified and died and rose and ascended to heaven to be king …..if we did it know the messiah would come of judahs line , if we didint know he was even also of David’s promised seed …..

Then , whats written in revelation is going to seem pretty mysterious we might think there’s a slain lamb literally on the throne with seven eyes and seven horns

all of the understanding we hear in the bible is how to understand revelation is my point . If you know Jesus was of judahs line and of David’s promised line and that he lived and died and rose again as Gods atoning sacrifice and Passover lamb …..then heering this makes sense


behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.”

But also I know it’s not literally a lamb with seven eyes and horns it’s an apocalypse of o formation on the Bible

It’s showing the son of man at gods right hand in heaven

 

[Shoshie]

The Babylon in the book of Revelation is a city, not a whole nation, so I'm not convinced that this is about the US.

A lot of people want the US to be beaten down and discouraged and this is why a lot of them want this prophecy to be associated to the US.

We'll see which city God is talking about when it happens. I'm just not going to bother hoping it's a city I hate.

I don't know why we should be especially punished for our sins, when every country sins as well.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

No Jerusalem was the chosen city of God to rule the earth as his people ….and then they worshipped the false gods and idols of all the nations around them .


You have to look at revelation from Gods perspective what’s established in the Bible by his word .

Here’s a short example innorder to inderrrsnd this apocalypse .

“And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭5:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That imagery and knowledge he’s seeing and hearing is coming from the things we already know in gods word do you see what I’m saying ?

aid we didint know about Jesus being the lamb of God and that he was crucified and died and rose and ascended to heaven to be king …..if we did it know the messiah would come of judahs line , if we didint know he was even also of David’s promised seed …..

Then , whats written in revelation is going to seem pretty mysterious we might think there’s a slain lamb literally on the throne with seven eyes and seven horns

all of the understanding we hear in the bible is how to understand revelation is my point . If you know Jesus was of judahs line and of David’s promised line and that he lived and died and rose again as Gods atoning sacrifice and Passover lamb …..then heering this makes sense


behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.”

But also I know it’s not literally a lamb with seven eyes and horns it’s an apocalypse of o formation on the Bible

It’s showing the son of man at gods right hand in heaven

Jesus will come down to earth and rule from Jerusalem during the Millennial age though. That's why Jerusalem can't be Babylon.

 

[Shoshie]

It's not that one wants America to be punished, but to whom much is given much is required. We've had the blessings of God and turned our nose up at Him. We've cursed Him in our media, We've molested and abused His innocent ones. We've been defiant before Him. Other nations have looked to us to set the example
Even the topic we are addressing in this forum re: Israel. At the conference of Evian, France in the late 1930's , 32 nations of asylum met to discuss what was the beginning of Hitlers war against the Jews. These nations discussed increasing their quotas of immigrants they would allow in. Everyone expected America, of all nations, to be benevolent. Remember the Emma Lazarus poem on the Statue of Liberty? But we would not increase quotas nor would we break diplomatic relations at that juncture with Germsny. There were only about 3 small nations who helped of the 32. How many lives might have been saved. The genocide had not yet started. But there came a day when they were trapped.
Again, you expect more from those whom the Lord has blessed! We kill our babies, our elderly, our parents because they wouldn't buy us our favorite tennis shoes. We complain about drug cartels but we buy it from them and sell it on the streets and destroy our own. I took a course in Ancient Rome and it was incredible how much our lifestyles mimicked them. We just haven't fed our people to the lions,....yet!

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

It's not that one wants America to be punished, but to whom much is given much is required. We've had the blessings of God and turned our nose up at Him. We've cursed Him in our media, We've molested and abused His innocent ones. We've been defiant before Him. Other nations have looked to us to set the example
Even the topic we are addressing in this forum re: Israel. At the conference of Evian, France in the late 1930's , 32 nations of asylum met to discuss what was the beginning of Hitlers war against the Jews. These nations discussed increasing their quotas of immigrants they would allow in. Everyone expected America, of all nations, to be benevolent. Remember the Emma Lazarus poem on the Statue of Liberty? But we would not increase quotas nor would we break diplomatic relations at that juncture with Germsny. There were only about 3 small nations who helped of the 32. How many lives might have been saved. The genocide had not yet started. But there came a day when they were trapped.
Again, you expect more from those whom the Lord has blessed! We kill our babies, our elderly, our parents because they wouldn't buy us our favorite tennis shoes. We complain about drug cartels but we buy it from them and sell it on the streets and destroy our own. I took a course in Ancient Rome and it was incredible how much our lifestyles mimicked them. We just haven't fed our people to the lions,....yet!

If the US is so bad, you should move to another country to avoid God's punishment. If not, why are you staying???

 

[Shoshie]

If the US is so bad, you should move to another country to avoid God's punishment. If not, why are you staying???

Because we dont like the way our country is going, we dont just move unless God says move. He led the Israelites by the pillars of cloud an fire. They didn't move till the cloud moved! I didn't say, that individuals in America couldn't or wouldn't be saved but that as a nation our future looks bleak. Much of this was our own choice, it's called free will but there are always consequences to rebellion. The Bible compares rebellion to sorcery.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Because we dont like the way our country is going, we dont just move unless God says move. He led the Israelites by the pillars of cloud an fire. They didn't move till the cloud moved! I didn't say, that individuals in America couldn't or wouldn't be saved but that as a nation our future looks bleak. Much of this was our own choice, it's called free will but there are always consequences to rebellion. The Bible compares rebellion to sorcery.

What do you want to do about it other than complain about the US on a Christian forum?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Jesus will come down to earth and rule from Jerusalem during the Millennial age though. That's why Jerusalem can't be Babylon.

New Jerusalem where Jesus is reigning is in heaven and comes down to a new earth

 

[Aaron56]

New Jerusalem where Jesus is reigning is in heaven and comes down to a new earth

18For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest, 19and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. 20(For they could not endure what was commanded: “And if so much as a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned or shot with an arrow.” 21And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I am exceedingly afraid and trembling.”)
22But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

New Jerusalem where Jesus is reigning is in heaven and comes down to a new earth

The new Jerusalem comes down to a new earth AFTER the Millennial age though.

Jesus still reigns in Jerusalem on earth during the Millennial age.

Is it that you don't believe in the Millennial age to come? That's okay, God will still include you in living here during that time even if you don't believe it right now.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

New Jerusalem where Jesus is reigning is in heaven and comes down to a new earth

My personal belief is that there wont be a physical kingdom coming down from the heavens,but it will be like it is now but even greater.That God's people will have a more connected,personal relationship with Jesus.That we will see him in the flesh and hear his Holy Spirit on a scale as never before.
I feel like that for some people that might seem disappointing but to have Jesus,a King and our God come over into our homes and break bread would be the best thing ever.