The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation

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Ouch said:
GODS word does NOT SAY faith alone saves
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but it does, over and over and over.
"not of works, lest any should boast"


1 John 5:1-5​
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. ​
This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. ​
And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world. ​
This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. ​
Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.​
​
obvious question:

do demons believe Jesus is the Christ?
 
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posthuman said:
1 John 5:1-5
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
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obvious question:

why does the apostle Jesus loves say everyone who believes Jesus is the Christ is born of God, but Ouch say everyone who is baptized with a specific formula and speaks in tongues?
why does scripture say the victory that overcomes the world is our faith but Ouch say it is our works?
 
posthuman said:
1 John 5:1-5
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
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seems to me John is telling us faith alone saves, and doing the works of God ((loving one another)) is proof that this faith has saved.

external proof by works is for those who only see the outside, and cannot see the heart - this is what James tells us, because we know Abraham was justified by his faith before he had any works - the promise being made to him beforehand - but James speaks of justification that men can see.

yet who saves us, God or man?
to Whom then is justification that saves?

let your faith be in God, not in your works - - then do the works, because you love Him Who has saved you, and your light may shine before all men and He Who loved you may be glorified.
 
Ouch said:
Your taking my statement out of context I was telling someone how they are wrong NOT AS A FACT.
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you very clearly stated more than once that James 2:19 proves faith does not save:

Ouch said:
So have you received the Holy Ghost since you have believed?

If all you have to do is beleive then devils are also saved.

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
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Ouch said:
I NEVER SAID ALL YOU NEED IS FAITH TO BE SAVED!!

WHY IT'S NOT TRUE, according to that verse demons would be saved also.
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you are arguing that demons have faith, even though James 2:19 doesn't say that - it says they are monotheistic.

and you are arguing that because demons have faith ((even tho the verse doesn't say that and clearly they don't)), salvation can't be by faith, it has to be by works.

presumably if demons were baptized and spoke in tongues, you think they would be saved?
 
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posthuman said:
so now you're saying again that the demons have faith?



do you realize how hard you're contradicting yourself?
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Why are you making something so confusing, I'm not saying nothing but what HIS word says.

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

I will try to help you, we need more than faith to be saved.

The devils believe in JESUS and tremble.

That verse does not say devils have faith in JESUS they just believe so I didn't say that either.
 
Ouch said:
That verse does not say devils have faith in JESUS they just believe so I didn't say that either.
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since James 2:19 does not say demons have faith..

  • it does not prove faith does not save
  • it does not mean if faith saved, then demons would all be saved
  • you have been making false arguments based on abusing this verse
 
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posthuman said:
but it does, over and over and over.
"not of works, lest any should boast"


1 John 5:1-5​
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. ​
This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. ​
And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world. ​
This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. ​
Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.​
​
obvious question:

do demons believe Jesus is the Christ?
Click to expand...

JESUS said in,
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1 John 5:1-5
King James Version
5 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

In 1 John where does it say faith alone gets rid of your sins and fills you with HIS spirit.

IT DOES SAY ALOT ABOUT KEEPING HIS COMMANDMENTS.

How can faith alone keep HIS commandments?

YOU ASK,

"obvious question:
do demons believe Jesus is the Christ? "

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Let's look at scripture, (((the devils also believe, and tremble))).
 
posthuman said:
faith in Jesus to do what?

faith that Jesus has done what?
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I'm done trying to answer your questions.

As you can see I can't please you.

How about you tell me what you think we have to do to be reborn.

Don't you think that's the most important thing?
 
posthuman said:
whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God​
​
do demons believe that Jesus is the Christ?
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Ask them.

How does that get rid of your sins?

How does that fill you with HIS spirit?

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you have believed?

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
 
Ouch said:
Ask them.

How does that get rid of your sins?

How does that fill you with HIS spirit?

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you have believed?

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
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pong
 
GWH said:
pong
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You told me to start my own thread, is that the only way to get you to answer the questions?

EXPLAIN YOUR SELF.

Regarding speaking in tongues, the original occurrence at Pentecost (in Acts 2:4-11) was earthly languages given as a sign of reversing Babel for the purpose of evangelism, but by the time of its occurrence in the church at Corinth it had morphed into mere babble, which Paul tried to quash tactfully (1Cor. 14:19), possibly because even pagan religions practiced it. Again, the purpose of the original gift at Pentecost and for a while longer was to fulfill prophecy and ensure the planting of the first Christian church, but that gift apparently ceased after the apostolic era (1Cor. 13:8-13) and was perverted by some into a faux gift of mere babbling, so one should not be myopic and focus only on a problematic proof-text (1Cor. 14:18-20).

Explain what you mean by this of course back it up with HIS word, I broke it down to 4 parts to they to zero in one specific points

1. Regarding speaking in tongues, the original occurrence at Pentecost (in Acts 2:4-11) was earthly languages given as a sign of reversing Babel for the purpose of evangelism,


2. but by the time of its occurrence in the church at Corinth it had morphed into mere babble, which Paul tried to quash tactfully (1Cor. 14:19), possibly because even pagan religions practiced it.

3. Again, the purpose of the original gift at Pentecost and for a while longer was to fulfill prophecy and ensure the planting of the first Christian church, but that gift apparently ceased after the apostolic era (1Cor. 13:8-13) and was perverted by some into a faux gift of mere babbling,

4. so one should not be myopic and focus only on a problematic proof-text (1Cor. 14:18-20).

Maybe as a bonse you can answer these?
1. Spirit baptism replaces water baptism.
2. When your filled with the spirit your filled with love.
 
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