Idea that all Sickness, Sins, Problems Caused by Specific Demons-- Worldview

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presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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I notice that ___some___ Charismatics seem to think that any kind of problem has a spirit or demon behind it, and to hear them talk, the solution to problems is to cast out or rebuke a demon named after the problem.

There are certain occasions in the Gospel where Jesus cast a demon out of someone. In one case, a child who had a spirit cast out of him was deaf and dumb due to the influence of the demon. In another case, a woman who was bent over had a 'spirit of infirmity.' But reading the Gospels, there does not seem to be evidence that every ailment is caused by a demon. And in the vast majority of cases, sin is treated as a human problem and not blamed on the devil, or treated as if a human sinned because a devil moved him around like a puppet and he bore no responsibility. The Bible does speak of the Devil or Satan _tempting_.

And we also see in the gospels that demons would speak through individuals and Jesus would cast a demon out of that person. One man Jesus cast demons out of was able to break chains. I don't see any cases of someone approaching Jesus or the apostles saying they had a problem with drinking or fornication, and Jesus or the apostles casting demons out of them. (I'm not saying that couldn't happen. But it sure does seem absent from scripture.)

Matthew 4 lists casting out unclean spirits as a separate category from curing various other ailments. Ergo, the idea that all ailments are caused by demons stands on shaky ground Biblically.

In the 1980's some books were written that promoted the idea that a key to revival was to rebuke territorial spirits over an area. There were even people going up in airplanes over certain areas to rebuke the spirits in the heavenlies. Then in some churches, whoever was 'praying' spent more time rebuking demons than talking to God. I was overseas in the 1990s and some churches had gone down this route and they were calling what they were doing 'spiritual warfare prayer'.... prayer when they were talking to demons.

One of the issues is whether a demon or principality actually exists for every problem you can think of. It's like if there is fornication in a city and they rebuke a 'spirit of fornication'-- how do we know that there is such a thing? What if there is a spirit that handles fornication and gambling temptations for about six months, and then he does murder and theft for the next six months?

I don't have a problem if people are getting information __from the Spirit__ for their diagnoses, if the Spirit is actually leading them to rebuke the spirits. But I suspect a lot of this is learned behavior, from hearing others name spirits after problems and cast them out. There was even a book 'Strongman: What's His Name and What's His Game' which told the name of spirits and symptoms by which to diagnose it. I didn't read the whole thing, so I don't know if the author claimed a revelatory source. It had Jack Chick drawing style cartoons of the spirits.

I believe in spiritual gifts and in casting out demons, but it sure does seem like a lot of Charismatic preachers come from preachers repeating what other preachers say, traced back to some preacher who was a bit loose with scripture. I was raised Pentecostal, and it seems like the majority view in Pentecostal denominations is that Christians can't be 'demon-possessed' so this idea of sin, sickness, or problem being a demon or caused by a specific demon that needs to be cast out isn't very prevalent because it doesn't fit well with most Pentecostals beliefs about Christians being demon possessed.

Reasons to be careful about blaming problems on demons.
1. If one accuses those with problems, history of sin, sin in the family history, sickness, of having a 'spirit' and they are wrong, they could be slandering a brother or sister in Christ.
2. If one falsely diagnoses a young believer of having a spirit, that can really mess with that person's head and understanding of theology.
3. If one is wrong about this, one can make others (rightly) think one is a Charismaniac and pay that individual little attention, dismissing said individual as kook.

Of course, plenty of people grew up watching Scooby Doo and don't believe in the supernatural and think the real thing is kooky anyway.

I think those who are inclined to rebuke or cast out demons should only do so if the demon obviously manifests (talking through the individual for example) or if they perceive the presence of a spirit

Other related issues-- some who say 'spirit' don't always mean a sentient demonic entity. Does scripture __always__ use spirit to refer to a sentient entity? Does 'spirit of slumber' mean that? I suspect some preachers say 'spirit' meaning a spiritual condition, but certain members of the audience think it is a demon.

Also, 'Demonize' may be a bit closer to the Greek than 'demon possessed.' The ending in Greek from which we get '-ize' does not mean 'possess' in terms of ownership. But the KJV used 'possessed of an unclean spirit' and there are people who have reacted to that 'possession' type terminology by creating another category 'demon oppressed.' I think these categories were just based on the turn of phrase in the KJV, not something specific from the Greek New Testament.
 
I notice that ___some___ Charismatics seem to think that any kind of problem has a spirit or demon behind it, and to hear them talk, the solution to problems is to cast out or rebuke a demon named after the problem.

There are certain occasions in the Gospel where Jesus cast a demon out of someone. In one case, a child who had a spirit cast out of him was deaf and dumb due to the influence of the demon. In another case, a woman who was bent over had a 'spirit of infirmity.' But reading the Gospels, there does not seem to be evidence that every ailment is caused by a demon. And in the vast majority of cases, sin is treated as a human problem and not blamed on the devil, or treated as if a human sinned because a devil moved him around like a puppet and he bore no responsibility. The Bible does speak of the Devil or Satan _tempting_.

And we also see in the gospels that demons would speak through individuals and Jesus would cast a demon out of that person. One man Jesus cast demons out of was able to break chains. I don't see any cases of someone approaching Jesus or the apostles saying they had a problem with drinking or fornication, and Jesus or the apostles casting demons out of them. (I'm not saying that couldn't happen. But it sure does seem absent from scripture.)

Matthew 4 lists casting out unclean spirits as a separate category from curing various other ailments. Ergo, the idea that all ailments are caused by demons stands on shaky ground Biblically.

In the 1980's some books were written that promoted the idea that a key to revival was to rebuke territorial spirits over an area. There were even people going up in airplanes over certain areas to rebuke the spirits in the heavenlies. Then in some churches, whoever was 'praying' spent more time rebuking demons than talking to God. I was overseas in the 1990s and some churches had gone down this route and they were calling what they were doing 'spiritual warfare prayer'.... prayer when they were talking to demons.

One of the issues is whether a demon or principality actually exists for every problem you can think of. It's like if there is fornication in a city and they rebuke a 'spirit of fornication'-- how do we know that there is such a thing? What if there is a spirit that handles fornication and gambling temptations for about six months, and then he does murder and theft for the next six months?

I don't have a problem if people are getting information __from the Spirit__ for their diagnoses, if the Spirit is actually leading them to rebuke the spirits. But I suspect a lot of this is learned behavior, from hearing others name spirits after problems and cast them out. There was even a book 'Strongman: What's His Name and What's His Game' which told the name of spirits and symptoms by which to diagnose it. I didn't read the whole thing, so I don't know if the author claimed a revelatory source. It had Jack Chick drawing style cartoons of the spirits.

I believe in spiritual gifts and in casting out demons, but it sure does seem like a lot of Charismatic preachers come from preachers repeating what other preachers say, traced back to some preacher who was a bit loose with scripture. I was raised Pentecostal, and it seems like the majority view in Pentecostal denominations is that Christians can't be 'demon-possessed' so this idea of sin, sickness, or problem being a demon or caused by a specific demon that needs to be cast out isn't very prevalent because it doesn't fit well with most Pentecostals beliefs about Christians being demon possessed.

Reasons to be careful about blaming problems on demons.
1. If one accuses those with problems, history of sin, sin in the family history, sickness, of having a 'spirit' and they are wrong, they could be slandering a brother or sister in Christ.
2. If one falsely diagnoses a young believer of having a spirit, that can really mess with that person's head and understanding of theology.
3. If one is wrong about this, one can make others (rightly) think one is a Charismaniac and pay that individual little attention, dismissing said individual as kook.

Of course, plenty of people grew up watching Scooby Doo and don't believe in the supernatural and think the real thing is kooky anyway.

I think those who are inclined to rebuke or cast out demons should only do so if the demon obviously manifests (talking through the individual for example) or if they perceive the presence of a spirit

Other related issues-- some who say 'spirit' don't always mean a sentient demonic entity. Does scripture __always__ use spirit to refer to a sentient entity? Does 'spirit of slumber' mean that? I suspect some preachers say 'spirit' meaning a spiritual condition, but certain members of the audience think it is a demon.

Also, 'Demonize' may be a bit closer to the Greek than 'demon possessed.' The ending in Greek from which we get '-ize' does not mean 'possess' in terms of ownership. But the KJV used 'possessed of an unclean spirit' and there are people who have reacted to that 'possession' type terminology by creating another category 'demon oppressed.' I think these categories were just based on the turn of phrase in the KJV, not something specific from the Greek New Testament.

This is why we need discernment. Satan loves to confuse people. If sickness is a result of sin, such as some in the Corinthian church suffered, Satan will try to convince people it is demonic. If it really is demonic, Satan will get people to blame themselves, This means. The real cause is overlooked and people suffer for no good reason. The truth is that Satan is behind all sickness.

Many years ago, I had a job that I hated. I suffered bouts of what I thought were flu. I would be just getting the initial symptoms, suffering the illness or recovering, with a little break in between.

I was driving home from work when my throat started to feel sore. That was the first symptom. The Lord spoke to me, saying "You bring this on yourself". I realised that I had accepted a lie from the pit. So I commanded the evil spirit to get off me. I was instantly free of symptoms. The cycle was broken. That was 45 years ago. I've had a few cases of influenza since, but nothing like the terrible two years.

A born again believer cannot be possessed. We can certainly be indwelt by evil spirits, including some occupy the mind. They seek to control our thoughts, as we read in 2 Corinthians 10:5. If we do not take control of our minds, evil spirits surely will.

It's war. We have the victory. However, it is not automatic. "Submit to God, resist the devil" still applies (James 4:7).
 
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Reasons to be careful about blaming problems on demons.
1. If one accuses those with problems, history of sin, sin in the family history, sickness, of having a 'spirit' and they are wrong, they could be slandering a brother or sister in Christ.
2. If one falsely diagnoses a young believer of having a spirit, that can really mess with that person's head and understanding of theology.
3. If one is wrong about this, one can make others (rightly) think one is a Charismaniac and pay that individual little attention, dismissing said individual as kook.
Key section of this discourse.
 
I was told I have evil spirits on my life and that is why I have suffered so much and am suffering now. If in fact I do have evil spirits or curses on my life well then how would I know? How does one even discern if something bad happening to you is from the devil or say your own doing?

I am emprisoned in a nursing home with seemingly no way out and I almost died in the last two years several times everyone abandoned me and left me to die on top of my room mate stealing hundreds of dollars from me my family refused to help me and I was alone in being very sickly and thin and weak for months and months.

It didn't make sense to me how everyone knew all this and yet just abandoned me to almost die, and now on top of that I am trapped here in a prison like nursing home. To be honest I have wondered if I do in fact have evil spirits on my life but I have also seen how God was always with me always there for me and working in my life I have encountered actual demons before and have rebuked them and sent some back to hell standing in the authoirity of Christ and his name so I know what actual spiritual warfare is like.

I just do not know the root cause of all my troubles, was it because of me and my sins? was it the enemy trying to steal my life and everything from me? is it evil spirits attacking my life? I have no clue.
 
Good information generally. We need discernment and we need to seek the Father's guidance in every situation... as Jesus did.

In the 1980's some books were written that promoted the idea that a key to revival was to rebuke territorial spirits over an area.
I had a pastor who knew one of these authors personally. His true story was rooted in guidance from the Lord in a specific situation, and while the original book did support the idea of a "territorial spirit" (which is biblically sound), many people assume territorial spirits instead of seeking the Lord.

Also, 'Demonize' may be a bit closer to the Greek than 'demon possessed.' The ending in Greek from which we get '-ize' does not mean 'possess' in terms of ownership. But the KJV used 'possessed of an unclean spirit' and there are people who have reacted to that 'possession' type terminology by creating another category 'demon oppressed.' I think these categories were just based on the turn of phrase in the KJV, not something specific from the Greek New Testament.
Good point. Many Christians get their knickers in a twist over the term "possessed" so I just avoid it.
 
I had a pastor who knew one of these authors personally. His true story was rooted in guidance from the Lord in a specific situation, and while the original book did support the idea of a "territorial spirit" (which is biblically sound), many people assume territorial spirits instead of seeking the Lord.

As I recall the argument is that 'shedim', the Hebrew which we might translate as 'demon' is believed to be related to an Akkadian word that means territorial spirit. Other than being a Semetic language, Akkadian is a little far from Hebrew.
 
This is why we need discernment. Satan loves to confuse people. If sickness is a result of sin, such as some in the Corinthian church suffered, Satan will try to convince people it is demonic. If it really is demonic, Satan will get people to blame themselves, This means. The real cause is overlooked and people suffer for no good reason. The truth is that Satan is behind all sickness.

Do you think that has always been the case, or that it changed at some point? If Israel were obedient, the LORD would put upon them none of the sicknesses that He put upon the Egyptians. Is there any reason to think that Satan had anything directly to do with the sicknesses the Lord put upon the Egyptians? God took credit for the plagues, which isn't to say that He couldn't use angels. One of the Herods was struck by the angel of the Lord. What about Jacob's injury to his thigh after his all-night wrestling match?
 
I notice that ___some___ Charismatics seem to think that any kind of problem has a spirit or demon behind it, and to hear them talk, the solution to problems is to cast out or rebuke a demon named after the problem.

Charismatics have some strange ideas, at least in my opinion.
 
I was told I have evil spirits on my life and that is why I have suffered so much and am suffering now. If in fact I do have evil spirits or curses on my life well then how would I know? How does one even discern if something bad happening to you is from the devil or say your own doing?

I am emprisoned in a nursing home with seemingly no way out and I almost died in the last two years several times everyone abandoned me and left me to die on top of my room mate stealing hundreds of dollars from me my family refused to help me and I was alone in being very sickly and thin and weak for months and months.

It didn't make sense to me how everyone knew all this and yet just abandoned me to almost die, and now on top of that I am trapped here in a prison like nursing home. To be honest I have wondered if I do in fact have evil spirits on my life but I have also seen how God was always with me always there for me and working in my life I have encountered actual demons before and have rebuked them and sent some back to hell standing in the authoirity of Christ and his name so I know what actual spiritual warfare is like.

I just do not know the root cause of all my troubles, was it because of me and my sins? was it the enemy trying to steal my life and everything from me? is it evil spirits attacking my life? I have no clue.
Why are you imprisoned in a nursing home? I thought nursing homes are for the elderly? Did you attempt to do something to yourself and they locked you up or what?
 
I was told I have evil spirits on my life and that is why I have suffered so much and am suffering now. If in fact I do have evil spirits or curses on my life well then how would I know? How does one even discern if something bad happening to you is from the devil or say your own doing?

I am emprisoned in a nursing home with seemingly no way out and I almost died in the last two years several times everyone abandoned me and left me to die on top of my room mate stealing hundreds of dollars from me my family refused to help me and I was alone in being very sickly and thin and weak for months and months.

It didn't make sense to me how everyone knew all this and yet just abandoned me to almost die, and now on top of that I am trapped here in a prison like nursing home. To be honest I have wondered if I do in fact have evil spirits on my life but I have also seen how God was always with me always there for me and working in my life I have encountered actual demons before and have rebuked them and sent some back to hell standing in the authoirity of Christ and his name so I know what actual spiritual warfare is like.

I just do not know the root cause of all my troubles, was it because of me and my sins? was it the enemy trying to steal my life and everything from me? is it evil spirits attacking my life? I have no clue.


Blain,

You sound depressed, do you receive visits from ministers or church members at your nursing home?
 
Blain,

You sound depressed, do you receive visits from ministers or church members at your nursing home?
I would not say I am depressed just deeply troubled and kind of confused. I am troubled because after everything I went through and after all I did for others and for God just to end up like this here trapped and hurt. what was the point of it all? even some who said they would help me get out of this place no longer respond to me or even accept my calls or texts

My own mom refuses to speak to me and I don't know why, basically every time I try to get back on my feet and every person who says they will help but ends up not doing it it is like there is some unseen force that is against me. I wish I had ministers to visit me I did at one point but even they stopped visiting.

I am tired of people knowing my situation knowing what I went through and refusing to help or saying they will and then just end up not doing it, I am tired of trusting God even though I have every reason not to just for nothing to happen

Believe me I have not even scratched the surface of what all I went through how much I suffered how much I was neglected and abandoned treated bad used stolen from abused ect. yet I still served others and God I still chose to trust him even now I am doing my best to trust him but I really am wondering if there is some unseen force on my life because it is just so confusing how all this happened and how people have known my circumstances known my situation and especially God has known all the hell I went through and yet this is the end result?

What hurts the most is that I have no one to help and I am done being lied to by people saying they will help then not doing anything. So yes maybe I am kind of depressed but for good reason yet even so I am still doing all I can for people I still encourage others and help guide people I still pray for others and even serve as a moderator on another forum to help build others up I still help the residents here in the nursing home and even use what little money I do have to help them with their needs and I still tell God every day I choose to trust you.

Will it matter in the end? probably not, it would take a true act of God or someone who would actually be willing to help me it is not a hard thing I just need someone to really be there for me or have God do something to free me and help me back on my feet.
 
I would not say I am depressed just deeply troubled and kind of confused. I am troubled because after everything I went through and after all I did for others and for God just to end up like this here trapped and hurt. what was the point of it all? even some who said they would help me get out of this place no longer respond to me or even accept my calls or texts

My own mom refuses to speak to me and I don't know why, basically every time I try to get back on my feet and every person who says they will help but ends up not doing it it is like there is some unseen force that is against me. I wish I had ministers to visit me I did at one point but even they stopped visiting.

I am tired of people knowing my situation knowing what I went through and refusing to help or saying they will and then just end up not doing it, I am tired of trusting God even though I have every reason not to just for nothing to happen

Believe me I have not even scratched the surface of what all I went through how much I suffered how much I was neglected and abandoned treated bad used stolen from abused ect. yet I still served others and God I still chose to trust him even now I am doing my best to trust him but I really am wondering if there is some unseen force on my life because it is just so confusing how all this happened and how people have known my circumstances known my situation and especially God has known all the hell I went through and yet this is the end result?

What hurts the most is that I have no one to help and I am done being lied to by people saying they will help then not doing anything. So yes maybe I am kind of depressed but for good reason yet even so I am still doing all I can for people I still encourage others and help guide people I still pray for others and even serve as a moderator on another forum to help build others up I still help the residents here in the nursing home and even use what little money I do have to help them with their needs and I still tell God every day I choose to trust you.

Will it matter in the end? probably not, it would take a true act of God or someone who would actually be willing to help me it is not a hard thing I just need someone to really be there for me or have God do something to free me and help me back on my feet.

Don't give up hope. 99% of the battle is mental.
 
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I was told I have evil spirits on my life and that is why I have suffered so much and am suffering now. If in fact I do have evil spirits or curses on my life well then how would I know? How does one even discern if something bad happening to you is from the devil or say your own doing?

I am emprisoned in a nursing home with seemingly no way out and I almost died in the last two years several times everyone abandoned me and left me to die on top of my room mate stealing hundreds of dollars from me my family refused to help me and I was alone in being very sickly and thin and weak for months and months.

It didn't make sense to me how everyone knew all this and yet just abandoned me to almost die, and now on top of that I am trapped here in a prison like nursing home. To be honest I have wondered if I do in fact have evil spirits on my life but I have also seen how God was always with me always there for me and working in my life I have encountered actual demons before and have rebuked them and sent some back to hell standing in the authoirity of Christ and his name so I know what actual spiritual warfare is like.

I just do not know the root cause of all my troubles, was it because of me and my sins? was it the enemy trying to steal my life and everything from me? is it evil spirits attacking my life? I have no clue.

Blain, you are a "Job" in the book of Job. Evil wants you to deny God, and I see you won't, thank you, read re-read Job all the way through it all. see the worldly Job counselors, having no clue and the thought(s) they kept trying to get Job to doubt God, for Job to deny God, who did not deny God at all, throughout the entire testimony written there.
I am sure, I bet Job felt like to deny God over troubles, yet would not deny God. Even to his own wife, who said to Job, just curse God and die, she had enough and gave up, Job still would not give up, no matter what!
Then around Chapter 32-34, God finally intervened with Job, who was getting and got very angry over those worldly counselors that continued to say to Job, God was punishing Job. Job continued to say, that is not true. Job, was getting a little boastful. So God stepped in and asked Job, did you make the Whirlpool, the crocodile, the earth? Answer No!
This, I see humbles me and this shows me, I am not punished by God, Disciplined yes, allowed to go through troubles (Job 1) to see if I will deny God or not, as per Evil states there in Chapter 1.
I, as Job do not, will not, cannot deny God and I bear the marks, so do you, thank you, oh and am still bearing them too.
I love the last Chapter over it all the best, I see the rest, given us each that will not deny God no matter what troubles happen to us here on earth. This short while here on earth, compared to eternity without troubles, is worth it to me at least and I bet you too
Love and mercy from God is for us all and to us all, to decide to believe God in the risen Son or not, even if not yet do believe God yet or not
The call is for All, not a few, All to decide, trusting God, it is not over yet, more to come in willingly
 
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I notice that ___some___ Charismatics seem to think that any kind of problem has a spirit or demon behind it, and to hear them talk, the solution to problems is to cast out or rebuke a demon named after the problem.

There are certain occasions in the Gospel where Jesus cast a demon out of someone. In one case, a child who had a spirit cast out of him was deaf and dumb due to the influence of the demon. In another case, a woman who was bent over had a 'spirit of infirmity.' But reading the Gospels, there does not seem to be evidence that every ailment is caused by a demon. And in the vast majority of cases, sin is treated as a human problem and not blamed on the devil, or treated as if a human sinned because a devil moved him around like a puppet and he bore no responsibility. The Bible does speak of the Devil or Satan _tempting_.

And we also see in the gospels that demons would speak through individuals and Jesus would cast a demon out of that person. One man Jesus cast demons out of was able to break chains. I don't see any cases of someone approaching Jesus or the apostles saying they had a problem with drinking or fornication, and Jesus or the apostles casting demons out of them. (I'm not saying that couldn't happen. But it sure does seem absent from scripture.)

Matthew 4 lists casting out unclean spirits as a separate category from curing various other ailments. Ergo, the idea that all ailments are caused by demons stands on shaky ground Biblically.

In the 1980's some books were written that promoted the idea that a key to revival was to rebuke territorial spirits over an area. There were even people going up in airplanes over certain areas to rebuke the spirits in the heavenlies. Then in some churches, whoever was 'praying' spent more time rebuking demons than talking to God. I was overseas in the 1990s and some churches had gone down this route and they were calling what they were doing 'spiritual warfare prayer'.... prayer when they were talking to demons.

One of the issues is whether a demon or principality actually exists for every problem you can think of. It's like if there is fornication in a city and they rebuke a 'spirit of fornication'-- how do we know that there is such a thing? What if there is a spirit that handles fornication and gambling temptations for about six months, and then he does murder and theft for the next six months?

I don't have a problem if people are getting information __from the Spirit__ for their diagnoses, if the Spirit is actually leading them to rebuke the spirits. But I suspect a lot of this is learned behavior, from hearing others name spirits after problems and cast them out. There was even a book 'Strongman: What's His Name and What's His Game' which told the name of spirits and symptoms by which to diagnose it. I didn't read the whole thing, so I don't know if the author claimed a revelatory source. It had Jack Chick drawing style cartoons of the spirits.

I believe in spiritual gifts and in casting out demons, but it sure does seem like a lot of Charismatic preachers come from preachers repeating what other preachers say, traced back to some preacher who was a bit loose with scripture. I was raised Pentecostal, and it seems like the majority view in Pentecostal denominations is that Christians can't be 'demon-possessed' so this idea of sin, sickness, or problem being a demon or caused by a specific demon that needs to be cast out isn't very prevalent because it doesn't fit well with most Pentecostals beliefs about Christians being demon possessed.

Reasons to be careful about blaming problems on demons.
1. If one accuses those with problems, history of sin, sin in the family history, sickness, of having a 'spirit' and they are wrong, they could be slandering a brother or sister in Christ.
2. If one falsely diagnoses a young believer of having a spirit, that can really mess with that person's head and understanding of theology.
3. If one is wrong about this, one can make others (rightly) think one is a Charismaniac and pay that individual little attention, dismissing said individual as kook.

Of course, plenty of people grew up watching Scooby Doo and don't believe in the supernatural and think the real thing is kooky anyway.

I think those who are inclined to rebuke or cast out demons should only do so if the demon obviously manifests (talking through the individual for example) or if they perceive the presence of a spirit

Other related issues-- some who say 'spirit' don't always mean a sentient demonic entity. Does scripture __always__ use spirit to refer to a sentient entity? Does 'spirit of slumber' mean that? I suspect some preachers say 'spirit' meaning a spiritual condition, but certain members of the audience think it is a demon.

Also, 'Demonize' may be a bit closer to the Greek than 'demon possessed.' The ending in Greek from which we get '-ize' does not mean 'possess' in terms of ownership. But the KJV used 'possessed of an unclean spirit' and there are people who have reacted to that 'possession' type terminology by creating another category 'demon oppressed.' I think these categories were just based on the turn of phrase in the KJV, not something specific from the Greek New Testament.

Simplified: God simply loves us all, otherwise that cross would not have ever taken place that got us reconciled (2 Cor 5:16-20), then new life in the risen Son to work this through us each personally, between God and each one that will not quit, then one gets revealed new from God Father and is new in love, mercy and humility as we all see Son did first, at least me.
That be what I see, giving no credit to the enemies of God at all, even when go through sicknesses, whether caused by evil or not. When truth is, evil began, caused it all in the fall that began at Adam and Eve in Unbelief, the choice made, eating from the tree of Evil, called good and evil, yet is only evil, to me anyways. Today, now in the risen Son, Belief returned by Son for us to stand in, no matter what troubles happen is at hand
Repent is, turned from unbelief to belief to God Father of in the risen Son Jesus for me at least
John 1:29, John 19:30, Hebrews 9:14-17
 
Blain, you are a "Job" in the book of Job. Evil wants you to deny God, and I see you won't, thank you, read re-read Job all the way through it all. see the worldly Job counselors, having no clue and the thought(s) they kept trying to get Job to doubt God, for Job to deny God, who did not deny God at all, throughout the entire testimony written there.
I am sure, I bet Job felt like to deny God over troubles, yet would not deny God. Even to his own wife, who said to Job, just curse God and die, she had enough and gave up, Job still would not give up, no matter what!
Then around Chapter 32-34, God finally intervened with Job, who was getting and got very angry over those worldly counselors that continued to say to Job, God was punishing Job. Job continued to say, that is not true. Job, was getting a little boastful. So God stepped in and asked Job, did you make the Whirlpool, the crocodile, the earth? Answer No!
This, I see humbles me and this shows me, I am not punished by God, Disciplined yes, allowed to go through troubles (Job 1) to see if I will deny God or not, as per Evil states there in Chapter 1.
I, as Job do not, will not, cannot deny God and I bear the marks, so do you, thank you, oh and am still bearing them too.
I love the last Chapter over it all the best, I see the rest, given us each that will not deny God no matter what troubles happen to us here on earth. This short while here on earth, compared to eternity without troubles, is worth it to me at least and I bet you too
Love and mercy from God is for us all and to us all, to decide to believe God in the risen Son or not, even if not yet do believe God yet or not
The call is for All, not a few, All to decide, trusting God, it is not over yet, more to come in willingly
Thank you yes you are right I suppose I am a job in this situation and I am doing my best to trust him in this but honestly sometimes it gets very hard to do so I still choose to because clearly this situation is out of my hands as every which way I try nothing works out so I have surrendered the situation to God because obviously nothing I do matters.

I have tried and tried but in the end unless someone actually steps in or unless God does something there is just nothing I can do. However in all of this I have been learning this very lesson to let go and let God I have been dying to self and have been working on trust.

But I would be lying if I was to say I am not in a dark place, and my trust in people is all but gone
 
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When the demonic completes their task they do not need to stick around to enforce their rule. People use evil mindsets and imaginations to create ways of life and eventually culture. In the U.S., the multicultural push that began in the 70’s was simply designed to elevate lesser-accepted lifestyles and lifestyles antithetical to an ordered society to a position of equal value with the mainstream. Abhorrent and deranged cultures were legally insulated from criticism so no truthful debate could be had.

To my point: once the demonic established evil imaginations and mindsets in the people, the people then create the basilica that preserves the perversion, usually by law or decree.

“They did not retain God in their knowledge…”
 
Thank you yes you are right I suppose I am a job in this situation and I am doing my best to trust him in this but honestly sometimes it gets very hard to do so I still choose to because clearly this situation is out of my hands as every which way I try nothing works out so I have surrendered the situation to God because obviously nothing I do matters.

I have tried and tried but in the end unless someone actually steps in or unless God does something there is just nothing I can do. However in all of this I have been learning this very lesson to let go and let God I have been dying to self and have been working on trust.

But I would be lying if I was to say I am not in a dark place, and my trust in people is all but gone

Love the honesty, amazing to me to see you as no fake], as God knows this too
I do not know how, yet do know God will get us through it all. Me I just went through another surgery, to repair old surgery, that I spoke out about before, over 12 years ago now.
No, not easy to accept, yet think it best to accept in my honest thought(s)
I stand in; God loves us all. I stand in seeing Satan speaking in Job 1 to God, where Satan states, yeah great, Job loves you, no wonder, look at that hedge you have protecting him, he does right and you give him a hedge, goodness built around him, take that away and I bet? If you allow Job, (Anyone) to go through troubles, I bet those that go through it will deny you, Job does not right now, because you give Job good things, remove that hedge and see for yourself, Job, (anyone) will deny you
I know Blain, you see this truth in the scriptures of Job for you to stand no matter what? and are, not easily, nor me either.
Can you see, Stephan in front of Saul of Tarsus, being stoned to death over belief, Jesus is risen, we all are forgiven and saved by God through this done work of Son, who is risen? No more have to do to get in under Law, to be loved, or forgive to be forgiven? why?
Because now, we are responders to being forgiven, this done for us to be thankful, even whenever in adversities here on earth, is not any human view, only a want to be.
I, Love because we all are loved first by God through Son, I forgive, because all are forgiven first by God through Son's done work. I, Accept, because we are accepted by God Eph 1:6, even if in adversities still. at least me and I bet you too, see this too. yet our first born flesh natures are still at war with God that to this day dies still. God did not come to save our flesh, came to save our souls as you know and are in a fight over this adversity you are in and hate. There is a book called "Living above your circumstances" Author Bob George, you might get Gold nuggets out of it, I know I did and see to re-read it again too, thank you for being you
 
Love the honesty, amazing to me to see you as no fake], as God knows this too
I do not know how, yet do know God will get us through it all. Me I just went through another surgery, to repair old surgery, that I spoke out about before, over 12 years ago now.
No, not easy to accept, yet think it best to accept in my honest thought(s)
I stand in; God loves us all. I stand in seeing Satan speaking in Job 1 to God, where Satan states, yeah great, Job loves you, no wonder, look at that hedge you have protecting him, he does right and you give him a hedge, goodness built around him, take that away and I bet? If you allow Job, (Anyone) to go through troubles, I bet those that go through it will deny you, Job does not right now, because you give Job good things, remove that hedge and see for yourself, Job, (anyone) will deny you
I know Blain, you see this truth in the scriptures of Job for you to stand no matter what? and are, not easily, nor me either.
Can you see, Stephan in front of Saul of Tarsus, being stoned to death over belief, Jesus is risen, we all are forgiven and saved by God through this done work of Son, who is risen? No more have to do to get in under Law, to be loved, or forgive to be forgiven? why?
Because now, we are responders to being forgiven, this done for us to be thankful, even whenever in adversities here on earth, is not any human view, only a want to be.
I, Love because we all are loved first by God through Son, I forgive, because all are forgiven first by God through Son's done work. I, Accept, because we are accepted by God Eph 1:6, even if in adversities still. at least me and I bet you too, see this too. yet our first born flesh natures are still at war with God that to this day dies still. God did not come to save our flesh, came to save our souls as you know and are in a fight over this adversity you are in and hate. There is a book called "Living above your circumstances" Author Bob George, you might get Gold nuggets out of it, I know I did and see to re-read it again too, thank you for being you
This was very encouraging to read thank you so much I will do my best to trust God in this as I know that he has been with me even in this time.
I will pray for you and your health as I know how surgery can be especially having to do it over and over again.
 
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I notice that ___some___ Charismatics seem to think that any kind of problem has a spirit or demon behind it, and to hear them talk, the solution to problems is to cast out or rebuke a demon named after the problem.

There are certain occasions in the Gospel where Jesus cast a demon out of someone. In one case, a child who had a spirit cast out of him was deaf and dumb due to the influence of the demon. In another case, a woman who was bent over had a 'spirit of infirmity.' But reading the Gospels, there does not seem to be evidence that every ailment is caused by a demon. And in the vast majority of cases, sin is treated as a human problem and not blamed on the devil, or treated as if a human sinned because a devil moved him around like a puppet and he bore no responsibility. The Bible does speak of the Devil or Satan _tempting_.

And we also see in the gospels that demons would speak through individuals and Jesus would cast a demon out of that person. One man Jesus cast demons out of was able to break chains. I don't see any cases of someone approaching Jesus or the apostles saying they had a problem with drinking or fornication, and Jesus or the apostles casting demons out of them. (I'm not saying that couldn't happen. But it sure does seem absent from scripture.)

Matthew 4 lists casting out unclean spirits as a separate category from curing various other ailments. Ergo, the idea that all ailments are caused by demons stands on shaky ground Biblically.

In the 1980's some books were written that promoted the idea that a key to revival was to rebuke territorial spirits over an area. There were even people going up in airplanes over certain areas to rebuke the spirits in the heavenlies. Then in some churches, whoever was 'praying' spent more time rebuking demons than talking to God. I was overseas in the 1990s and some churches had gone down this route and they were calling what they were doing 'spiritual warfare prayer'.... prayer when they were talking to demons.

One of the issues is whether a demon or principality actually exists for every problem you can think of. It's like if there is fornication in a city and they rebuke a 'spirit of fornication'-- how do we know that there is such a thing? What if there is a spirit that handles fornication and gambling temptations for about six months, and then he does murder and theft for the next six months?

I don't have a problem if people are getting information __from the Spirit__ for their diagnoses, if the Spirit is actually leading them to rebuke the spirits. But I suspect a lot of this is learned behavior, from hearing others name spirits after problems and cast them out. There was even a book 'Strongman: What's His Name and What's His Game' which told the name of spirits and symptoms by which to diagnose it. I didn't read the whole thing, so I don't know if the author claimed a revelatory source. It had Jack Chick drawing style cartoons of the spirits.

I believe in spiritual gifts and in casting out demons, but it sure does seem like a lot of Charismatic preachers come from preachers repeating what other preachers say, traced back to some preacher who was a bit loose with scripture. I was raised Pentecostal, and it seems like the majority view in Pentecostal denominations is that Christians can't be 'demon-possessed' so this idea of sin, sickness, or problem being a demon or caused by a specific demon that needs to be cast out isn't very prevalent because it doesn't fit well with most Pentecostals beliefs about Christians being demon possessed.

Reasons to be careful about blaming problems on demons.
1. If one accuses those with problems, history of sin, sin in the family history, sickness, of having a 'spirit' and they are wrong, they could be slandering a brother or sister in Christ.
2. If one falsely diagnoses a young believer of having a spirit, that can really mess with that person's head and understanding of theology.
3. If one is wrong about this, one can make others (rightly) think one is a Charismaniac and pay that individual little attention, dismissing said individual as kook.

Of course, plenty of people grew up watching Scooby Doo and don't believe in the supernatural and think the real thing is kooky anyway.

I think those who are inclined to rebuke or cast out demons should only do so if the demon obviously manifests (talking through the individual for example) or if they perceive the presence of a spirit

Other related issues-- some who say 'spirit' don't always mean a sentient demonic entity. Does scripture __always__ use spirit to refer to a sentient entity? Does 'spirit of slumber' mean that? I suspect some preachers say 'spirit' meaning a spiritual condition, but certain members of the audience think it is a demon.

Also, 'Demonize' may be a bit closer to the Greek than 'demon possessed.' The ending in Greek from which we get '-ize' does not mean 'possess' in terms of ownership. But the KJV used 'possessed of an unclean spirit' and there are people who have reacted to that 'possession' type terminology by creating another category 'demon oppressed.' I think these categories were just based on the turn of phrase in the KJV, not something specific from the Greek New Testament.

Consider: The ‘any kind of problem has a spirit or demon’ is the spirit or demon we become as sinners. The solution called ‘cast out or rebuke‘ refers to forgiveness. Self forgiveness. Getting our own devil out of ourselves.
We put them there in the first place. -Not making this up
 
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