Israel.

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I am quoting the Bible. That passage is directly from the Bible. What do you mean the way I read it.

The way you read it is in unbelief. Paul takes pains throughout Romans 9-11 to make the point that only a remnant of Israel is ever saved, but the spell that has been cast on your mind doesn't allow you to see that when you get to the "all Israel will be saved" part. Instead of believing what Paul wrote and doing the sensible thing of interpreting that phrase in the context of every other part of Romans 9-11, and every other part of the bible for that matter, your mind goes blank and only sees what unbelieving Jews see, ie, that they will all be saved

 

[HeIsHere]

Zionist narrative

Fed to them by their local pastor.

 

[Needevidence]

And this is why buddy here won't get an apology, because he lies. YOUR OPINION WITH NO PROOF against Israel means 0, zip, nothing!!! Stop with the lying that people wouldn't condemn pedos. People don't agree with your PROPAGANDA!!! Stop being sick, no one would agree with molesting a child but Hamas terrorists. Get a life man!

I will comment on this since this wasn't discussed in the original thread by the looks of it:

When it says 'only' son Isaac, it says so because Isaac was the only son of promise. Ishmael was born of the flesh.

It was a much wider discussion - yes I’m not disagreeing with that point.


How do you see - Jeremiah 8:8?


What about MT & DSS below – which one is correct?



8:6 MT (Masoretic Text) reads: "Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him."



DSS

6 You shall keep the commandments of Yahweh your God, to walk in his ways, and to love him.





8:6 MT (Masoretic Text) reads: "Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him."



DSS

6 You shall keep the commandments of Yahweh your God, to walk in his ways, and to love him.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

It was a much wider discussion

Why are you tagging me in this convo?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Fed to them by their local pastor.

I'm sure many of them get it from online videos and from TV preachers and from reading a huge garbage pile of books that push that narrative.

 

[Needevidence]

Why are you tagging me in this convo?

Clearly that was an error - I got distracted

I look forward to your reply to the points raised in my response to you

Or are you going to ignore so the post is lost?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

The way you read it is in unbelief. Paul takes pains throughout Romans 9-11 to make the point that only a remnant of Israel is ever saved, but the spell that has been cast on your mind doesn't allow you to see that when you get to the "all Israel will be saved" part. Instead of believing what Paul wrote and doing the sensible thing of interpreting that phrase in the context of every other part of Romans 9-11, and every other part of the bible for that matter, your mind goes blank and only sees what unbelieving Jews see, ie, that they will all be saved

I quoted the BIBLE! I have never said Jews would be saved any other way, I never said there was any other Gospel, I never said anything that would constitute being a Judaiser. You're just flat out lying. I literally copy/pasted the BIBLE!! I didn't add anything to it. smh

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I look forward to your reply to the points raised in my response to you

Already answered your points. This is the second time around, do you need a third?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I'm sure many of them get it from online videos and from TV preachers and from reading a huge garbage pile of books that push that narrative.

Well if you consider the Bible garbage... that's where it comes from.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I quoted the BIBLE! I have never said Jews would be saved any other way, I never said there was any other Gospel, I never said anything that would constitute being a Judaiser. You're just flat out lying. I literally copy/pasted the BIBLE!! I didn't add anything to it. smh

But you believe that "all Israel will be saved" means the modern nation of Israel will be saved, correct?

 

[CommodoreTeach]

Fed to them by their local pastor.

Her indignation is most ironic. I believe it's sincere, but sincerely wrong. The Judaisers actually were quoting exactly from scripture, also, and probably getting all upset that Jesus had fulfilled all of the law and that despite what the scriptures they quoted stated, their continued efforts at Judaising were no longer merely unnecessary but actually heresy.

 

[Needevidence]

Already answered your points. This is the second time around, do you need a third?

To the original yes (arguably) not a fact based response - but NO to the below to clarify matters;


I won’t bother responding to most as you have only expressed your opinion or opinions of others - no evidence.

As to the 'forever'

You seem to have copied from the web page ‘Hebrew word lessons’ – but overlooked mentioning it refers to - Strong's 5769 – so why not go to that instead?


Other points you have ignored;


Why the need of a ‘New Covenant’?

Why the ‘UNTIL’ – if forever?

Circumcise – if ‘forever’ – putting aside the argument that Jesus fulfilled everything – will this be still required when Jesus returns?



Another or many examples:



Jonah 2:6

To the roots of the mountains I sank down; the earth beneath barred me in forever [olam]. But you, LORD my God, brought my life up from the pit.



Forever OR three days and three nights (Jonah 1:17)?

 

[HeIsHere]

Trying to claim unbelieving Jews are God's chosen people

This is the heart of the matter, the tree consists of believers, Jews and Gentiles and Jesus is the root.

Just this teaching alone destroys this false doctrine of dispensationalism.

I am beginning to see that this doctrine is really an assault on Christ Jesus and His completed work and the ONE Church all throughout scripture.

To extract the land promises from the OT as NOT fulfilled is a diabolical geo-political ruse which has cost many lives.
May God have mercy on them for promulgating this lie and its vile consequences.

 

[Shoshie]

What are you twisting now??! One issue has nothing to do with the other at all!! God promised an unconditional promise to bring the Jews back to their homeland, to re-gather them. You'd have to be utterly stupid not to read the Bible and understand that. They are in their homeland again after how many years? Never happened to any other nation. The Bible is 110% clear, they will return to the land. They did that in 48. God said Israel would never cease to be a nation before Him. Israel is the nation born in a day, the dry bones come to life. And all your hate is not going to stop God's will. So you all can have whatever tantrum you want, and hold your breath till you turn blue but the Father has a plan and your feelings and opinions don't matter. Period.

Well, well said and oh so true!I loved the way you took the truth of Scripture and connected all the dots of the Lord's beautiful plan! Stay strong and on target!

 

[HeIsHere]

Well, well said and oh so true!I loved the way you took the truth of Scripture and connected all the dots of the Lord's beautiful plan! Stay strong and on target!

The Lord does not bless evil actions.
All the dots were connected in Christ Jesus.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

But you believe that "all Israel will be saved" means the modern nation of Israel will be saved, correct?

Those who take a literal approach to the promises of the Old Testament believe that the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will be restored to a right relationship with God and receive the fulfillment of the covenants. Those who advocate replacement theology basically affirm that the Church has completely replaced Israel and will inherit God’s promises to Israel; the covenants, then, will be fulfilled only in a spiritual sense. In other words, replacement theology teaches that Israel will not inherit the actual land of Israel; the Church is the “new Israel,” and ethnic Israel is forever excluded from the promises—the Jews will not inherit the Promised Land as Jews per se.

Here's the difference we are arguing about.

The passages that speak of future Israel are difficult to view as figurative for the Church. The classic text (Romans 11:16–24) depicts Israel as distinct from the Church: the “natural branches” are the Jews, and the “wild branches” are the Gentiles. The “olive tree” is the collective people of God. The “natural branches” (Jews) are “cut off” the tree for unbelief, and the “wild branches” (believing Gentiles) are grafted in. This has the effect of making the Jews “jealous” and then drawing them to faith in Christ, so they might be “grafted in” again and receive their promised inheritance. The “natural branches” are still distinct from the “wild branches,” so that God’s covenant with His people is literally fulfilled. Romans 11:26–29, citing Isaiah 59:20–21; 27:9; Jeremiah 31:33–34, says:

“And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: ‘The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.’ As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.”

Here, Paul emphasizes the “irrevocable” nature of Israel’s calling as a nation (see also Romans 11:12). Isaiah predicted that a “remnant” of Israel would one day “be called the Holy People, the Redeemed of the LORD” (Isaiah 62:12). Regardless of Israel’s current state of unbelief, a future remnant will in fact repent and fulfill their calling to establish righteousness by faith (Romans 10:1–8; 11:5). This conversion will coincide with the fulfillment of Moses’ prediction of Israel’s permanent restoration to the land (Deuteronomy 30:1–10).

We don't know where we stand as far as God's time clock. This may be the generation.

When Paul says Israel will be “saved” in Romans 11:26, he refers to their deliverance from sin (verse 27) as they accept the Savior, their Messiah, in the end times. Moses said, “The Lord your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live” (Deuteronomy 30:6). Israel’s physical inheritance of the land promised to Abraham will be an integral part of God’s ultimate plan (Deuteronomy 30:3–5).

After Israel is spiritually restored, Christ will establish His millennial kingdom on earth. The symbolic “dry bones” of Ezekiel’s vision will be brought together, covered with flesh, and miraculously resuscitated (Ezekiel 37:1–14). As God promised, the salvation of Israel will involve both a spiritual awakening and a geographical home: “I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land” (Ezekiel 37:14).

Further insight here https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/israel-saved-romans-11/

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Her indignation is most ironic. I believe it's sincere, but sincerely wrong. The Judaisers actually were quoting exactly from scripture, also, and probably getting all upset that Jesus had fulfilled all of the law and that despite what the scriptures they quoted stated, their continued efforts at Judaising were no longer merely unnecessary but actually heresy.

Where have I said we still live under the law, that we must follow Jewish practices and holy days?

 

[HeIsHere]

To the original yes (arguably) not a fact based response - but NO to the below to clarify matters;


I won’t bother responding to most as you have only expressed your opinion or opinions of others - no evidence.

As to the 'forever'

You seem to have copied from the web page ‘Hebrew word lessons’ – but overlooked mentioning it refers to - Strong's 5769 – so why not go to that instead?


Other points you have ignored;


Why the need of a ‘New Covenant’?

Why the ‘UNTIL’ – if forever?

Circumcise – if ‘forever’ – putting aside the argument that Jesus fulfilled everything – will this be still required when Jesus returns?



Another or many examples:



Jonah 2:6

To the roots of the mountains I sank down; the earth beneath barred me in forever [olam]. But you, LORD my God, brought my life up from the pit.



Forever OR three days and three nights (Jonah 1:17)?

Reason, facts, logic and truth will never win the day when a person is heavily indoctrinated and emotionally driven/invested.

I just do not think it is possible until they humble themselves before God and ask Him to reveal it them, if one is in an echo chamber (local church) which reinforces it that is not likely to happen either.

I feel like we are now relying on non-Church people and a small minority of Christians to hopefully help end what could be a very bad future.

 

[HeIsHere]

This generation, lol ... going around on social media

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Those who take a literal approach to the promises of the Old Testament believe that the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will be restored to a right relationship with God and receive the fulfillment of the covenants.

And many, many have been beginning at Pentecost and throughout the past nearly 2000 years, and will be until the lord returns

The “natural branches” are still distinct from the “wild branches,” so that God’s covenant with His people is literally fulfilled.

God's covenant was fulfilled nearly 2000 years ago, has been since then and will be until he returns

Here, Paul emphasizes the “irrevocable” nature of Israel’s calling as a nation (see also Romans 11:12). Isaiah predicted that a “remnant” of Israel would one day “be called the Holy People, the Redeemed of the LORD” (Isaiah 62:12). Regardless of Israel’s current state of unbelief, a future remnant will in fact repent and fulfill their calling to establish righteousness by faith (Romans 10:1–8; 11:5). This conversion will coincide with the fulfillment of Moses’ prediction of Israel’s permanent restoration to the land (Deuteronomy 30:1–10).

We are in agreement here that a remnant will be saved