The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation

[rogerg]

No, you suggest that there is no need for us to do anything, because God does everything.
It is amazing to see how far some folks will bend over backward to avoid agreeing with the plain sense of Scripture!

That is the plain sense of scripture and of Christ. You just trust in your works for salvation not in Christ
That is why I suggested you try to ponder Christ in His role as Savior.

 

[GWH]

That is the plain sense of scripture and of Christ. You just trust in your works for salvation not in Christ
That is why I suggested you try to ponder Christ in His role as Savior.

No, I trust in Christ for salvation,
and you trust your convoluted interpretation
that claims God does both the trusting and the convoluting,
an amazing both-and!

 

[rogerg]

No, I trust in Christ for salvation,
and you trust your convoluted interpretation
that claims God does both the trusting and the convoluting,
an amazing both-and!

if you trusted in Christ for salvation as you say you do, then you would agree with me because, that, and that alone, is exactly
what I've been saying. What do you think it means when I claim that Christ is the Savior? Not that He is part Savior, or mostly Savior,
but totally the Savior in all ways, so it is you who is convoluted, not me.
It's okay, no need to reply, I already know you don't understand Christ - it's obvious from your posts, and I'm tiring of this dialogue.
So, see ya.

 

[Ouch]

Jesus and Paul for starters, then millions of Christians through the centuries since.

JESUS and Paul said when you get filled with the spirit you don't speak in tongues but with love?

GOOD if they did it will be REAL easy for you to show scripture.

Millions of SO CALLED Christians all heading to HELL if they don't believe JESUS and HIS word but follow people like you!!

Why do you follow people like them?

So, since YOU CAN'T back it up with scripture then your spreading lies, who do you work for satan or JESUS??

Of course you can provid scripture and I will accept what YOU SAY as truth.

 

[GWH]

if you trusted in Christ for salvation as you say you do, then you would agree with me because, that, and that alone, is exactly
what I've been saying. What do you think it means when I claim that Christ is the Savior? Not that He is part Savior, or mostly Savior,
but totally the Savior in all ways, so it is you who is convoluted, not me.
It's okay, no need to reply, I already know you don't understand Christ - it's obvious from your posts, and I'm tiring of this dialogue.
So, see ya.

What you have been saying implies that trusting in Christ is being programmed by God,
which obviously contradicts Scripture and so I disagree with you regarding that although
I agree that it is pointless to play ping-pong. HAND

 

[GWH]

JESUS and Paul said when you get filled with the spirit you don't speak in tongues but with love?

GOOD if they did it will be REAL easy for you to show scripture.

Millions of SO CALLED Christians all heading to HELL if they don't believe JESUS and HIS word but follow people like you!!

Why do you follow people like them?

So, since YOU CAN'T back it up with scripture then your spreading lies, who do you work for satan or JESUS??

Of course you can provid scripture and I will accept what YOU SAY as truth.

Naw, you prove with Scripture that Jesus and Paul said unless you speak in tongues you are not filled with the Spirit.

 

[Ouch]

Naw, you prove with Scripture that Jesus and Paul said unless you speak in tongues you are not filled with the Spirit.

WH
I'm not the liar,

Naw, you prove with Scripture that Jesus and Paul said unless you speak in tongues you are not filled with the Spirit.

You know I can't help you with your lies, why are you deflecing and asking me questions?

I'm sure you know it was JESUS who was responsible FOR EVERY WORD IN HIS WORD.

So here is proff that JESUS and Paul said it.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

I have included examples of that happening, in Acts 2,8,10 and 19.

It's called EVIDENCE any chance you have any?

The question is will you repent from your lies and follow JESUS instead of your own worldly wisdom?

So PROVE what you say because as of now, you know your a liar and don't want to fix it.

 

[GWH]

WH
I'm not the liar,


You know I can't help you with your lies, why are you deflecing and asking me questions?

I'm sure you know it was JESUS who was responsible FOR EVERY WORD IN HIS WORD.

So here is proff that JESUS and Paul said it.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

I have included examples of that happening, in Acts 2,8,10 and 19.

It's called EVIDENCE any chance you have any?

The question is will you repent from your lies and follow JESUS instead of your own worldly wisdom?

So PROVE what you say because as of now, you know your a liar and don't want to fix it.

I understand your interpretation of those Scriptures, and you should understand mine by now,
but I am not interested in playing ping-pong aka quarrelling, so HAND.

 

[Ouch]

I understand your interpretation of those Scriptures, and you should understand mine by now,
but I am not interested in playing ping-pong aka quarrelling, so HAND.

There you go, can't prove your lie from Satan and I'm the problem.

Scripture is not to be interpreted, it's to be read and OBEYED.

Pride is a terrible thing, BUT JESUS LOVE YOU it's NOT TO LATE TO REPENT and get BAPITZED in JESUS wonderful name to get rid of your sins, and PRAY FOR JESUS to FILL you WITH HIMSELF the HOLY GHOST.

Key word here, like he did HIS "DISCIPLES".

 

[Ouch]

I understand your interpretation of those Scriptures, and you should understand mine by now,
but I am not interested in playing ping-pong aka quarrelling, so HAND.

If your bored, open up HIS word and prove what comes out of your mouth.

STOP ALL OF THE BACK AND FORTH.

This is NO JOKE.

YOU SAID.

Yes, believers are either Spirit-filled or not, and love is the evidence of filling
that justifies believing someone is filled (and the basis of spiritual unity) per John 13:35.

SHOW ME SOMEONE WHO WAS FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT AND THEY GOT LOVE INSTEAD OF SPEAKING IN TONGUES.

PROVE IT IN HIS WORD OR IT'S A LIE FROM SATAN.

Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Peter speaking to the Phairisce of the day, THEIR HEART WAS PRICKED what does it take to PRICK YOURS?

Acts 2:37-39
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

 

[GWH]

The cornerstone is a critical part of a foundation, it's not the only part. A foundation is a broader structure that supports the entire building. The cornerstone is the first stone laid, setting the alignment for the rest of the foundation. Scripture attests the same:"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;" (Eph. 2:19-20)

Jesus is the chief corner stone. "And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:" Mark 12:10

If you will recall, AFTER telling a group of believers that He never knew them, Jesus begins talking about foundations. (Matt. 7:21-27) That account undoubtedly relates to why Jesus said He never knew those who professed belief in Him. The account in Luke actually reveals the foundation must be LAID UPON the rock. (Luke 6:47-48)

The Book of Hebrews reveals the foundation and it parallels requirements established in the NT gospel message: Belief in Jesus Christ, repentance, water baptism in the name of Jesus for remission of sin, and receiving the Holy Ghost. Consider as well that Jesus said, truly, truly, I say, except (unless) a man is born of water and of Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God. (John 3:3-5)

"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation (meaning it has to be laid) of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment." Hebrews 6:1-2

Yes, the cornerstone and foundation stone refer to the kerygma, but assuming we agree regarding the creed, I would like to discuss
other secondary issues with you, but perhaps it would be better for me to begin a new thread for that purpose, so I will submit it
soon and hope to see y'all there for the purpose of exploring how the saved should behave.
(And you thought discussing the creed stepped on toes! :^)

 

[mailmandan]

Faith involves obedience. Paul made the statements; Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. (Rom. 10:12) And not all have obeyed the gospel, meaning action is required. (Rom. 10:16)

We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”

*Not to be confused with action/works, which "follow."

 

[GWH]

We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”

*Not to be confused with action/works, which "follow."

Good point!
BTW, everyone please notice that a discussion of what follows saving faith is being conducted on the new thread about The Didache.
Hope to see y'all there.

 

[Ouch]

We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”

*Not to be confused with action/works, which "follow."

Tell me what do we have to do to be reborn?

I know we are still born in sin, right?

And anyone with sin is not going to enter Heaven right?

What actions do you think we HAVE to take after being reborn?

Of course be great if you used scripture to backup your opinion that are very clear in what they say and mean.

 

[mailmandan]

Tell me what do we have to do to be reborn?

I know we are still born in sin, right?

And anyone with sin is not going to enter Heaven right?

What actions do you think we HAVE to take after being reborn?

Of course be great if you used scripture to backup your opinion that are very clear in what they say and mean.

Spiritual rebirth occurs when a person places their faith in Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation and receives God’s forgiveness of sins. (Acts 10:43; 15:7-9; Romans 1:16; 3:24-26; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4; 1 Peter 1:3)

John 3:5 - Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:26 - that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word.
John 15:3 - You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
1 Peter 1:23 - having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.

Water is used in Scripture as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (1 Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)

What actions do we HAVE to take after being reborn?

 

[Ouch]

Spiritual rebirth occurs when a person places their faith in Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation and receives God’s forgiveness of sins. (Acts 10:43; 15:7-9; Romans 1:16; 3:24-26; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4; 1 Peter 1:3)

John 3:5 - Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:26 - that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word.
John 15:3 - You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
1 Peter 1:23 - having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.

Water is used in Scripture as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (1 Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)

What actions do we HAVE to take after being reborn?

My questions,

Tell me what do we have to do to be reborn?
I know we are still born in sin, right?
And anyone with sin is not going to enter Heaven right?
What actions do you think we HAVE to take after being reborn?
Of course be great if you used scripture to backup your opinion that are very clear in what they say and mean.

Your answer "Spiritual rebirth occurs when a person places their faith in Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation and receives God’s forgiveness of sins"

SO YOUR SAYING ALL I HAVE TO DO IS PUT MY FAITH IN JESUS AND WHAT HE HAS DONE AND MY SINS ARE FOR FORGIVEN.

And you back that up with these verses' right?

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Acts 15:7-9
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 3:24-26
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

WHAT HAPPEN TO BEING VERY CLEAR IN YOUR ANSWER?

These are the scriptures you shared WHERE DOES IT SAY WHAT YOU SAY???

"Spiritual rebirth occurs when a person places their faith in Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation and receives God’s forgiveness of sins"

Please be spifice, when I place my faith in JESUS and all he has done GOD forgives my sins.

 

[mailmandan]

My questions,

Tell me what do we have to do to be reborn?
I know we are still born in sin, right?
And anyone with sin is not going to enter Heaven right?
What actions do you think we HAVE to take after being reborn?
Of course be great if you used scripture to backup your opinion that are very clear in what they say and mean.

Your answer "Spiritual rebirth occurs when a person places their faith in Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation and receives God’s forgiveness of sins"

SO YOUR SAYING ALL I HAVE TO DO IS PUT MY FAITH IN JESUS AND WHAT HE HAS DONE AND MY SINS ARE FOR FORGIVEN.

And you back that up with these verses' right?

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Acts 15:7-9
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 3:24-26
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

WHAT HAPPEN TO BEING VERY CLEAR IN YOUR ANSWER?

These are the scriptures you shared WHERE DOES IT SAY WHAT YOU SAY???

"Spiritual rebirth occurs when a person places their faith in Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation and receives God’s forgiveness of sins"

Please be spifice, when I place my faith in JESUS and all he has done GOD forgives my sins.

I was being specific. Why are you having trouble understanding?

 

[Ouch]

I was being specific. Why are you having trouble understanding?

Your logic, where does it say your faith removes your sins.

Keep it simple. Just show me that verse or verses.

 

[mailmandan]

Your logic, where does it say your faith removes your sins.

Keep it simple. Just show me that verse or verses.

The blood of Christ removes our sins (Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14; Revelation 1:5) the moment that we believe in Him/place faith in Him for salvation.

Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.

Acts 13:48 - Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Acts 26:18 - To open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

Romans 3:24 - Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him who believes in Jesus.

 

[Ouch]

The blood of Christ removes our sins (Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14; Revelation 1:5) the moment that we believe in Him/place faith in Him for salvation.

Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.

Acts 13:48 - Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Acts 26:18 - To open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

Romans 3:24 - Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him who believes in Jesus.

After looking at the verse you shared I think I see the problem.

When JESUS told HIS disciples he will make them fishers of men he didn't mean go fishing in HIS word to circumvent HIS word.

HIS word is like a big puzzle that when we read it ALL of the peices have a place and they have to go together.

YOU THINK all you need to do is believe in JESUS and that faith gets rid of your sins is that correct?

If so, you think just a thought gets rid of your sins.

We didn't even speak of receiveing the Holy Ghost.

When JESUS says this in John 3:5?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

He says we need TWO things to ENTER at just a thought wans't one of them.

Do you think JUST beleiving in HIM or beleive EVERYTHING he says?

Do you think JUST faith in HIM or faith in what HE says?

What do you think being born of water and of spirit means?