Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[HeIsHere]

No. God tells us why He chooses...Deuteronomy 7:7-8.

Does that tell us why he loves some .... what is the success criteria?

So we still have an arbitrary god who gives enabling/regeneration to some and not others. (once again not the real God).

At least admit that is true, always side stepping, deflecting or the else the lamest and laziest trying to make it personal.

 

[HeIsHere]

Take note that there are Calvinists on this tread that have leveled the accusation that the FW crowd are unsaved ("don't know God" "blasphemers" etc etc). And they bash US constantly too!

Interesting how they (Calvinesque soteriology proponents) live up to THE reputation they have, I guess that is why they have THE reputation.

 

[HeIsHere]

Here's the link to the gotquestions article:

What is the meaning of the Parable of the Good Samaritan? | GotQuestions.org ​

I stumbled upon the link yesterday ... wish I had known about the gotquestions article last month when we were hashing through whether the parable was about who is the good neighbor as opposed to the inability of the half dead victim ... went round and round on that one ... now it's been resurrected to re-hash ad infinitum ...
.

Oh ... I see, you went through that argument about the man in the ditch who couldn't save himself and he is the prototype for the person which god bestows "regeneration" before belief/faith.

People who teach "particular, special, unique divine intervention, irresistible grace" prior to exercising faith/belief are also known to mine scripture to support this idea almost to the level of absurdity sometimes.

GotQuestions can be helpful, I just am cautious with them.

 

[Cameron143]

I'm not a Jew. My forefathers were not Abraham, Isaac and Jacob so you'll need to find another reason for us Gentiles.

Are you not a Jew inwardly...Romans 2:28-29?

 

[Cameron143]

Take note that there are Calvinists on this tread that have leveled the accusation that the FW crowd are unsaved ("don't know God" "blasphemers" etc etc). And they bash US constantly too!

Poor behavior from anyone is wrong. But that doesn't make dishonesty acceptable. Alot of eyes need salve.

 

[Cameron143]

Does that tell us why he loves some .... what is the success criteria?

So we still have an arbitrary god who gives enabling/regeneration to some and not others. (once again not the real God).

At least admit that is true, always side stepping, deflecting or the else the lamest and laziest trying to make it personal.

God's choice is not indiscriminate. He not only chose because He loves, but because He fulfills His promises. Having promised to make Abraham a great nation, He chose his progeny. Having promised a people in Christ, He chose His progeny.

Proverbs 4:7...Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

 

[HeIsHere]

God's choice is not indiscriminate. He not only chose because He loves, but because He fulfills His promises. Having promised to make Abraham a great nation, He chose his progeny. Having promised a people in Christ, He chose His progeny.

Proverbs 4:7...Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

Okay let us add it in, the god of your theology chooses who to love and save arbitrarily.

Oh so now salvation and love are solely based on a certain gene pool for all time.
ok.

 

[HeIsHere]

God's choice is not indiscriminate. He not only chose because He loves, but because He fulfills His promises. Having promised to make Abraham a great nation, He chose his progeny. Having promised a people in Christ, He chose His progeny.

Proverbs 4:7...Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

Feel free to default to the usual "it's god's sovereign choice who selects for salvation and it is a mystery" type answer.

 

[sawdust]

Just because you can't comprehend it doesn't make it wrong.

I never said I couldn't comprehend. I understand what you are saying but it is illogical given traditional meanings.

 

[sawdust]

Yet the bible does teach that all who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are children of Abraham:

“And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” (Ga 3:29 NKJV)

Except that wasn't the context of the Deut. quote.

 

[sawdust]

Are you not a Jew inwardly...Romans 2:28-29?

No, there is neither Jew nor Greek in Christ. The Deut. verse you quoted had to do with bringing a people out of Egypt and forming a nation from them. Nothing to do with individual salvation, for as we know, not all that came out from Egypt were believers.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Oh ... I see, you went through that argument about the man in the ditch who couldn't save himself and he is the prototype for the person which god bestows "regeneration" before belief/faith.

diverting the focus of the parable from who was the neighbor (the point Jesus wants us to understand) ... to the victim of the thieves ... causes the hearer of the parable to miss the mark (Greek = hamartia) ... resulting in a lot of the behavior we see in the pages of this thread going unchecked.

People who teach "particular, special, unique divine intervention, irresistible grace" prior to exercising faith/belief are also known to mine scripture to support this idea almost to the level of absurdity sometimes.

I think they call it "harmonizing" ... I call it misrepresenting the Author aka poor workmanship (2 Tim 2:15).

GotQuestions can be helpful, I just am cautious with them.

yep.
.

 

[HeIsHere]

Nothing to do with individual salvation,

Yes that is the error we keep pointing out, but they are tenacious on that misrepresentation.

 

[rogerg]

No, there is neither Jew nor Greek in Christ. The Deut. verse you quoted had to do with bringing a people out of Egypt and forming a nation from them. Nothing to do with individual salvation, for as we know, not all that came out from Egypt were believers.

[Col 3:10, 12 KJV]
10 And have put on the new [man], which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: ...
12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
[Col 3:11 KJV] 11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.

[Gal 3:28 KJV] 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
[Gal 3:29 KJV] 29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Genez]

And yet you can't back up your claim. False witness much?

At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who then is greatest ​

in the kingdom of heaven?”​

​

Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said, ​

“Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, ​

you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles ​

himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. (Mat 18:1-4)​

​

​

You just love to jump into these kiddy fights.

You're so young at heart!
.... Just maybe?

Looks to me?

You're heading to be one of the greatest in the Kingdom!


.....





… Wow! He may someday be one of the greatest in the kingdom?

 

[Kroogz]

God's choice is not indiscriminate.

Correct.
John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 John 2:2
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Corinthians 5:19
that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men’s trespasses against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:5-6
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, / who gave Himself as a ransom for all—the testimony that was given at just the right time.


Acts 16: 30-31
and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”


Equal privilege and equal opportunity for ALL.

 

[Cameron143]

Okay let us add it in, the god of your theology chooses who to love and save arbitrarily.

Oh so now salvation and love are solely based on a certain gene pool for all time.
ok.

Are you really this ignorant? It's NOT arbitrary. It's simply God's choice based on God's love and promises. God promised Abraham a large progeny = God's people. God promised Christ a great progeny = God's people.
For this all to be arbitrary would mean it occurs randomly. It does not. It was all planned before the foundation of the world.

This is your modus operandi: to keep insisting things are so that are not. This is why you are called disingenuous and dishonest.

 

[rogerg]

Correct.
John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 John 2:2
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Corinthians 5:19
that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men’s trespasses against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:5-6
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, / who gave Himself as a ransom for all—the testimony that was given at just the right time.


Acts 16: 30-31
and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Equal privilege and equal opportunity for ALL.

there are two worlds, not one: one is earthly; one is spiritual - the spiritual world is the world to come. You presume this current world to be the world of the verses you quoted.

[Heb 1:2 KJV] 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
[Heb 11:3 KJV] 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

 

[cv5]

Are you not a Jew inwardly...Romans 2:28-29?

Aaahhhmmm......Paul is speaking to ethnic Israelites here. Of the sons of Jacob type.

And not anyone else. Certainly not gentile Christians.

 

[HeIsHere]

Are you really this ignorant? It's NOT arbitrary. It's simply God's choice based on God's love and promises. God promised Abraham a large progeny = God's people. God promised Christ a great progeny = God's people.
For this all to be arbitrary would mean it occurs randomly. It does not. It was all planned before the foundation of the world.

This is your modus operandi: to keep insisting things are so that are not. This is why you are called disingenuous and dishonest.

Still waiting for the "success criteria" by which god chooses to regenerate/enable/particular selection of people before faith?

If there is no criteria for the selection it is random? Capisci.

What about the one's he does not choose, please explain why they do not make the cut?

The problem is the doctrine stop trying to project on to me.