Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[reneweddaybyday]

All of them together IMO. Son of David, Son of God. Has to be both. Hypostatic union by necessity.

yeah ... I get that ... "that it might be fulfilled" ...
.

 

[cv5]

I'll stick with the gotquestions.org conclusion ...

"Although this interpretation teaches good lessons, and the parallels between Jesus and the Samaritan are striking, this understanding draws attention to Jesus that does not appear to be intended in the text. Therefore, we must conclude that the teaching of the Parable of the Good Samaritan is simply a lesson on what it means to love one’s neighbor."​

who am I to infer that He really meant ...

"the injured man is all men in their fallen condition of sin. The robbers are Satan attacking man with the intent of destroying their relationship with God. The lawyer is mankind without the true understanding of God and His Word. The priest is religion in an apostate condition. The Levite is legalism that instills prejudice into the hearts of believers. The Samaritan is Jesus who provides the way to spiritual health."​

If Jesus had meant to state what some folks claim is the meaning of the parable, He could easily have done so ... as He did in explaining other parables to His disciples... when Scripture is silent on that point?
.

Sure if you like. I see it as containing ultimate truth as well as more prosaic applications.

 

[Magenta]

Matthew 16 verses 15-17 ~ What about you?” Jesus asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven.

 

[Magenta]

2 Corinthians 13 v 5 ~ Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Can’t you see for yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you- unless you actually fail the test?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Sure if you like. I see it as containing ultimate truth as well as more prosaic applications.

when we divert the meaning of the parable from the main point the Lord Jesus Christ was teaching the lawyer to the metaphor described at gotquestions.org, we don't "get the point" and end up treating others in an unChristianlike manner ... this truth is fully demonstrated in the pages of this thread ...
.

 

[Magenta]

2 Peter 3 v 15-16 ~ Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

 

[Genez]

From the Coalition:
While the vast majority of the world's population has likely heard of Jesus, a significant percentage has not been meaningfully presented with the Gospel or understands its core message. Estimates suggest that around 40% of the world's population lives in unreached people groups, meaning they lack sufficient access to the Christian message.

The Great Commission is not to just speak about a NAME but to make Disciples and Baptize them which is only done through preaching the Gospel.

Acts 17:6

But when they did not find them, they dragged Jason and some brethren to the rulers of the city, crying out, ​

“These who have turned the world upside down have come here too. ​

Who's definition are we using?
.......

 

[Magenta]

Romans 7 v 14, John 8 v 34, Jeremiah 13 v 23, Romans 3 v 10 ~ We know that the law is spiritual; but
I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.” Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? Neither are you able to do good - you who are accustomed to doing evil. There is no one righteous, not even one.

 

[Genez]

From the Coalition:
While the vast majority of the world's population has likely heard of Jesus, a significant percentage has not been meaningfully presented with the Gospel or understands its core message. Estimates suggest that around 40% of the world's population lives in unreached people groups, meaning they lack sufficient access to the Christian message.

The Great Commission is not to just speak about a NAME but to make Disciples and Baptize them which is only done through preaching the Gospel.

Being baptized into the name meant speaking/teaching about the person.

For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, ​

that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed ​

through the sea. They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and ​

in the sea. 1 Corinthians 10:1-2​

Placing someone simply into water does not cause you to know the knowledge one needs to learn in order to identify with that person.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Based on what you are saying here it sounds to me like you see Adam's body with a soul and spirit and the breath of lives God is breathing into him simply gives life to each. I see soul and spirit as life in itself, one created by God (soul) the other given by God of His own being (spirit).

Maybe you could clarify this point for me please?

What you said here is how I see Adam before the fall:

Adam's body with a soul and spirit and the breath of lives God is breathing into him simply gives life to each.​

The soul life (nephesh) in living creatures which God created on Day 5 is the same soul life (nephesh) God placed in Adam on Day 6. The difference between living creatures and Adam is that God breathed into Adam's (nephesh) ... which is something God did not do in living creatures on Day 5.

according to Strong's, nephesh is breath life.

Gen 1:26-28 tells us God created man in His image and likeness. I believe this is spirit (John 4:24) and God breathed life into this aspect of man as well ... which is why Gen 2:7 states God breathed into Adam the breath of lives (plural). So interesting to me ...

God creates a new heart within each born again one at the time he or she believes the gospel of Christ. New life ... something that did not exist prior to you (or I) coming to faith in Christ ... is created within the believer.

I'm going to have to go back to what I originally said as I still don't see what this has to do with what I said. I think you may have misunderstood what I meant or maybe I wasn't very clear.

My point is that each time a person believes the gospel of Christ and is born again, God creates new life at that very instant within that newly born again one. It's not that God enlivens something that is already within the person ... God creates something the very moment someone is born again.

It appears to me that you believe this new creation occurs within the soul of the new believer ... and the new believer is now body and soul/spirit

I believe this new creation is separate from the soul ... and the new believer is body and soul and spirit as shown in 1 Thes 5:23.

I'm talking about new life ... life that did not exist prior to you or I believing comes into existence the moment we believed.

Yes I get that, but we already had physical life and we had human life, we lacked spiritual life. That's the life we gain at regeneration and if memory serves me correctly that's what I was talking about when you responded with the new creation. The new life/creation you are speaking of I don't see happening until the resurrection. We have it positionally and are working it out this side of the resurrection but ultimately it will be complete on The Day.

yes, we are instructed to mature spiritually from newborn babe in Christ to adulthood ... to me full adulthood will occur at "The Day" when we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is (1 John 3:2.

However, under Old Covenant, I do not believe it was available to be born again in the same manner we are under New Covenant (after Day of Pentecost).

I agree OC saints were not given what we have from Pentecost onwards but Jesus told Nicodemus he must be born again. That was a command under the OC. He expected Nicodemus to understand without NC teaching, without the Pentecost event.

right ... have you read the record in Numbers ?

Numbers 11:

16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Gather unto me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom thou knowest to be the elders of the people, and officers over them; and bring them unto the tabernacle of the congregation, that they may stand there with thee.

17 And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with thee, that thou bear it not thyself alone.

...

24 And Moses went out, and told the people the words of the LORD, and gathered the seventy men of the elders of the people, and set them round about the tabernacle.

25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

This is not what we have in our day and time ... in our day and time, each believer is born again of incorruptible seed the very moment he or she believes the gospel of Christ, which is the power of God unto salvation to every one who believes ...

1 Peter 1:22-23 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
.

 

[Magenta]

James 1 v 17-18, Numbers 23 v 19c, and from Philippians 3 v 21 ~ Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, with whom there is no change or shifting shadow. He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation. Does He promise and not fulfill? He has the power to subject all things to Himself.

 

[Genez]

What you said here is how I see Adam before the fall:

Adam's body with a soul and spirit and the breath of lives God is breathing into him simply gives life to each.​

The soul life (nephesh) in living creatures which God created on Day 5 is the same soul life (nephesh) God placed in Adam on Day 6. The difference between living creatures and Adam is that God breathed into Adam's (nephesh) ... which is something God did not do in living creatures on Day 5.

according to Strong's, nephesh is breath life.

Gen 1:26-28 tells us God created man in His image and likeness. I believe this is spirit (John 4:24) and God breathed life into this aspect of man as well ... which is why Gen 2:7 states God breathed into Adam the breath of lives (plural). So interesting to me ...





My point is that each time a person believes the gospel of Christ and is born again, God creates new life at that very instant within that newly born again one. It's not that God enlivens something that is already within the person ... God creates something the very moment someone is born again.

It appears to me that you believe this new creation occurs within the soul of the new believer ... and the new believer is now body and soul/spirit

I believe this new creation is separate from the soul ... and the new believer is body and soul and spirit as shown in 1 Thes 5:23.





yes, we are instructed to mature spiritually from newborn babe in Christ to adulthood ... to me full adulthood will occur at "The Day" when we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is (1 John 3:2.





right ... have you read the record in Numbers ?

Numbers 11:

16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Gather unto me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom thou knowest to be the elders of the people, and officers over them; and bring them unto the tabernacle of the congregation, that they may stand there with thee.

17 And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with thee, that thou bear it not thyself alone.

...

24 And Moses went out, and told the people the words of the LORD, and gathered the seventy men of the elders of the people, and set them round about the tabernacle.

25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

This is not what we have in our day and time ... in our day and time, each believer is born again of incorruptible seed the very moment he or she believes the gospel of Christ, which is the power of God unto salvation to every one who believes ...

1 Peter 1:22-23 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
.

You are a very confusing person.

I believe you are confused, and that is why.

Nephesh is the soul.

 

[Genez]

Grace must grant "spiritual capacity."

To comport oneself in a reasonably dignified manner on a message board?

BTW, there are more than a few that dig the superiority complex ego trip that religiosity brings to their psyche.

An angry condemning demeanor is the tell.

Religiosity is a cheap fix for a lack of genuine spiritual self-esteem.

 

[studier]

Do a word study of the Heb "garash" (Strong's 1644) translated "drove out" in Gen 3:24. It's most frequently used with respect to God's enemies or Israel's enemies. And this makes perfectly good sense in the context of the post-fall Genesis narrative since God clearly reconciled Eve unto Himself in 3:15 while Adam is conspicuously absent from the text. Likewise, God's displeasure with Adam in v. 24 is very obvious and here we have the conspicuous absence of Eve. So, what we have in v. 24 is God driving out his enemy Adam from his Garden (temple), just as Christ angrily drove out the Father's enemies from the temple of his day.

Can you connect the dots?

You presume I don't look at words, verses and context before I make statements.

There is no anger stated in Gen3:24 nor in garash itself nor is there anger stated in the Greek equivalent used in the LXX.

The dots here are conjecture.

 

[sawdust]

I never said otherwise.

You said you made your choices freely so .... if they are made from your volition????

Do you want to tell us all your "flesh" choices were made freely but your decision to believe Christ was what, coerced?

 

[sawdust]

What you said here is how I see Adam before the fall:

Adam's body with a soul and spirit and the breath of lives God is breathing into him simply gives life to each.​

The soul life (nephesh) in living creatures which God created on Day 5 is the same soul life (nephesh) God placed in Adam on Day 6. The difference between living creatures and Adam is that God breathed into Adam's (nephesh) ... which is something God did not do in living creatures on Day 5.

according to Strong's, nephesh is breath life.

Gen 1:26-28 tells us God created man in His image and likeness. I believe this is spirit (John 4:24) and God breathed life into this aspect of man as well ... which is why Gen 2:7 states God breathed into Adam the breath of lives (plural). So interesting to me ...





My point is that each time a person believes the gospel of Christ and is born again, God creates new life at that very instant within that newly born again one. It's not that God enlivens something that is already within the person ... God creates something the very moment someone is born again.

It appears to me that you believe this new creation occurs within the soul of the new believer ... and the new believer is now body and soul/spirit

I believe this new creation is separate from the soul ... and the new believer is body and soul and spirit as shown in 1 Thes 5:23.





yes, we are instructed to mature spiritually from newborn babe in Christ to adulthood ... to me full adulthood will occur at "The Day" when we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is (1 John 3:2.





right ... have you read the record in Numbers ?

Numbers 11:

16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Gather unto me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom thou knowest to be the elders of the people, and officers over them; and bring them unto the tabernacle of the congregation, that they may stand there with thee.

17 And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with thee, that thou bear it not thyself alone.

...

24 And Moses went out, and told the people the words of the LORD, and gathered the seventy men of the elders of the people, and set them round about the tabernacle.

25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

This is not what we have in our day and time ... in our day and time, each believer is born again of incorruptible seed the very moment he or she believes the gospel of Christ, which is the power of God unto salvation to every one who believes ...

1 Peter 1:22-23 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
.

I wonder if we are both confusing each other because you said here that:

"God creates new life at that very instant within that newly born again one. It's not that God enlivens something that is already within the person ..."

.. whereas I'm sure I heard you say before that man is born with a spirit and the new birth is the Holy Spirit "energizing" his spirit. I'm paraphrasing somewhat and I could be mistaken?

I believe the new life that is gained in the new birth is the human spirit. I do not see the spirit as part of the soul but being distinct from and with it's own function, like you said we (believers) are now spirit, soul and body.

The other difference is you see Gen.1:26-28 as God creating a spirit but I say God created a soul because as far as I have found, nowhere in scripture does it speak of God creating (bara) the human spirit, it is said to be given or said to be generated/birthed. Also the scripture refers to humans as souls, not spirits so it doesn't make sense to me to say God created a spirit in Gen 1.27 I see the soul that was created in Gen 1.27 as one of the breath of lives that God breathed into Adam, the other life being the birthing of a spirit. Then, when Adam sinned, his spirit returned to God and Adam became body and soul only. He needed, now, to be born again.

I agree with us being born of incorruptible seed and as far as I am concerned it only serves to emphasize that it was not a spirit that God create in Gen.1 because souls can be corrupted but a spirit that is born of the substance of God Jn.3:6 cannot be corrupted which is why we are not given a spirit at physical birth but only when we believe and believers are kept (alive) by God even though we sin because of the Cross.

I appreciate you responses. It's obvious we are starting from very different understandings which, goes to prove @studier point about how confusion can arise in these discussions.

grace and peace

 

[Psalm1]

Why do you ask?
You should be able to know for yourself.

..and I asked that it not be from haters...but rather the bible
So, you failed

 

[HeIsHere]

I'll stick with the gotquestions.org conclusion ...

"Although this interpretation teaches good lessons, and the parallels between Jesus and the Samaritan are striking, this understanding draws attention to Jesus that does not appear to be intended in the text. Therefore, we must conclude that the teaching of the Parable of the Good Samaritan is simply a lesson on what it means to love one’s neighbor."​

who am I to infer that He really meant ...

"the injured man is all men in their fallen condition of sin. The robbers are Satan attacking man with the intent of destroying their relationship with God. The lawyer is mankind without the true understanding of God and His Word. The priest is religion in an apostate condition. The Levite is legalism that instills prejudice into the hearts of believers. The Samaritan is Jesus who provides the way to spiritual health."​

If Jesus had meant to state what some folks claim is the meaning of the parable, He could easily have done so ... as He did in explaining other parables to His disciples... when Scripture is silent on that point?
.

Just an fyi, "gotquestions" has a "calvinistic bent" on some/many of its responses.

 

[Psalm1]

Why do you ask?
You should be able to know for yourself.

2chr 5
13 It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the Lord; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the Lord, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the Lord;

14 So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of God.

.....but we know there were those there that mocked and ridiculed
we know that for sure.

 

[Psalm1]

Why do you ask?
You should be able to know for yourself.

Do you have anything in hagins doctrine you can show me?
Or are you just here to hate on him?