Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Hakawaka]

Thanks for proving that many of the "church fathers" theology was as corrupt as yours.

Show me in scripture where it says that God wills for everyone to be saved. If He decreed such a thing, how come is will all these centuries has been thwarted? Jesus said all things are possible with God! Someone is lying....and I know who it is!

Okay. Easy.
1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

But you already knew this. So you are probably only asking to provide the weak sauce "all kinds of men" interpretation.

 

[Hakawaka]

Excellent proofs because these people were only mere generations from the Apostles and would have proper Biblical understanding than Augustine would have had.

Indeed, many of them died for their faith and they also spoke the native tongue of the Scriptures, koine greek. Unlike us and unlike Augustine who knew neither greek or hebrew and spoke Latin

 

[fredoheaven]

Mark 9:23 KJV — Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
Mark 9:24-29 KJV — And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
Yes, it's up to the father if he believe he will. The good thing is a humble experience of crying for help even in an unbelief state. Surely man can believe as in this case or believe not.

 

[cv5]

You have certainly defeated every strawman that you have created.

A win is a win. How's your record doing? Still on medical leave due to shell shock?

 

[Cameron143]

You were saved by Grace.

You need chapter and verse at this point in your walk for that one?

Not at all, and you know that's not what is being referenced. Please show scripture for a partial regeneration.

 

[cv5]

Okay. Easy.
1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

But you already knew this. So you are probably only asking to provide the weak sauce "all kinds of men" interpretation.

"and to come unto the knowledge of the truth"

And all that they have to do is "come" when called to class. This being an exercise in FREE WILL.

 

[Cameron143]

This story has nothing to do with salvation. Jesus brought forth a man from the dead. Dont know why calvinists keep using this.

I'm not a Calvinist. I employed it because these things were written that one can know Jesus is the Christ and have life through his name...John 20:31. Of course it's about salvation.

 

[GWH]

And this is why I saw nothing edifying coming from a discussion with you.
Grace and peace.

Because you cannot see that "whoever" = "everyone"?
You are not edified even by the obvious in GW!

 

[Kroogz]

You FWers project a lot, don't you? If anyone has a superiority complex on steroids it you and you comrades. You're totally superior to God. You can cure your own blindness. You can raise yourself from the dead. You have the power to change your own immutable nature, etc. You guys fancy yourselves as real superheroes, don't you?

John 1:29
The next day he saw Jesus coming to him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

John 16
8And He, when He comes, will convict the world regarding sin, and righteousness, and judgment: 9regarding sin, because they do not believe in Me;

2 Cor 6:2
For He says: “In an acceptable time I have heard you, And in the day of salvation I have helped you.” Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.

Acts 16:31
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

 

[Cameron143]

Because you cannot see that "whoever" = "everyone"?
You are not edified even by the obvious in GW!

Whosoever refers to believers...whosoever believes, and not to unbelievers. They are not included in whosoever believes. If you only consider part of a verse, you will only get part of the understanding.

 

[cv5]

You FWers project a lot, don't you? If anyone has a superiority complex on steroids it you and you comrades. You're totally superior to God. You can cure your own blindness. You can raise yourself from the dead. You have the power to change your own immutable nature, etc. You guys fancy yourselves as real superheroes, don't you?

@Rufus stacking straw men like Paul Bunyan is stacking cordwood..

 

[lrs68]

Amen and remember that hell wasn't even created for humans to begin with

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

This is probably the most vital point that can be made in a discussion like this and here is why.

GOD SAID HE CREATED HELL FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS FALLEN ANGELS.
^
That means if God predetermined humans to go to Hell, to a place that was SPECIFICALLY MADE FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS FALLEN ANGELS, then God is a LIAR!

Humans are not Angels so God cannot PREDESTINE humans to a place He specifically created for the Devil and his Fallen Angels.

It's literally impossible that God could predetermine humans to Hell because it would make God out to be a LIAR.

 

[Blain]

We have to overcome it by the spirit

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: for which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: in the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:5-7‬ ‭

Notice paul isn’t saying “ god is going to magically mortify the deeds of the flesh “ but he’s saying if you mortify the deeds of the flesh through the spirit you’ll live and he’s instructing then to mortify thoer earthly passions ect but not saying “ gods going to mysteriously do this for you “

we’re working together with him in this way

We do this part

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

gods working in us because we believe the gospel to change our corrupt will and actions ( the flesh issue ) however our part is to be obedient because that’s what changes us

Yes it is why we must be born again before this process happens we need the spirit to overcome the flesh

 

[Blain]

Speaking of free, what could be more free than asking?

An innate capacity the super-determinists think impossible. Which is a direct assault against the very words of our Savior.

Ask yourself who in their right mind could possibly fail to rightly comprehend these passages @Blain. As you can see, the Holy Spirit is absolutely responsive to the WILL of the petitioner.

[Luk 11:9-13 KJV] 9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if [he ask] a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?

13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

I don't see how these passages could be misunderstood at least as far as I can tell

 

[lrs68]

Indeed, many of them died for their faith and they also spoke the native tongue of the Scriptures, koine greek. Unlike us and unlike Augustine who knew neither greek or hebrew and spoke Latin

Indeed!

Those people being 2nd generations from the Apostles and some 1st would have concrete knowledge and meaning. The fact they claim Free Will indicates the Disciples of Jesus were taught that from the very mouth of God in the flesh Himself.

 

[Blain]

Indeed. A truth never so poignantly portrayed as here.....

And just look at that @Blain .......Jesus says that this outcast Canaanite woman with an horrible demon problem innately possesses both WILL and FAITH.

Oh yes, lest the Calvinists fail to inform you, the FREE WILL mechanism of action being expressed by the Canaanite woman was.....simply (key word simply) ASKING. And asking profusely at that. Which of course is EXACTLY what Jesus commands us to do in Luke 11:9-13!

[Mat 15:22-28 KJV]
22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, [thou] Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast [it] to dogs.

27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great [is] THY faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Of course we have a will but the agurment of free will vs having a will would suggest that if we are only free when Jesus sets us free until then we are slaves and therefore not free, we have the freedom to choose but to freely choose we must be set free we see in scripture that we are called slaves to sin or slaves to Christ not called free

As for the calvinists I don't know who your refering to on that one

 

[Blain]

He was telling Peter who he was representing in how he was thinking.

Don't you get it?
Peter was being a bleeding heart, trying to convince Jesus to avoid the Cross!

Not to mention...
Paul also was at times sarcastic and would mentally clobber certain ones, especially in Corinth.

Even if this is to be true we are called to love and be respectful we can exhort each other yes but there is a correct way to do this and a wrong way.

 

[Blain]

Grace works in that way to give us space for our soul to sort things out.
If not?

You must believe, then?
That God forces us to believe against our will.

Grace is one thing but I am asking for evidence for partial regeneration

 

[NightTwister]

A win is a win. How's your record doing? Still on medical leave due to shell shock?

When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things

 

[Blain]

I would like to know how a legally blind person can read? Is blind not blind anymore? OR do you use audio bibles?

I have to use my pc and have the text enlarged