Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Ephesians 2 v 1-3 You were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath. :)
 
Yeah you o ow those verses about being a slave ? If you look at what he’s saying he’s saying this part first

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; ( they were free to yield themselves to sin and serve it or obedience ) whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?

( They began to serve sin and then became servants of sin but then the gospel came )


But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬


See it’s not sayong “ everyone’s born in slavery to sin it’s saying of you yield yourselves to serve sin you’ll be a servant of sin and die
This may be the case but when we arte born are not born into sin? do we not do as the flesh desires? if this is to be the case then are we not slaves to our own sinful desires? the bible never mentions man as free until we are free in Christ but it does mention man as being slaves to sin

If in fact we are free to choose as we please why is it that we still sin no matter how hard we try before we are born again? I ask this as an actual question because many have tried to not sin in the past but only Jesus was able to pull this off.
 
From what I really see coming from both viewpoints is one group says God determined who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell so humans aren't obeying anything but what God set forth until they reach their destination.

The other group says God awakens humanity one by one revealing Himself and their need for God and humanity then can decide to choose God or ultimately choose Hell.

So don't let soft explanations fool you because ultimately the 2 views I describe is what they're really saying.

So you will have to decide which view you believe.

You will either believe that God sends people to Hell to show how Sovereign He is and it's His Plan and Will that will be done
Or
That God gives man the ability to choose if he wants to follow God or not just like Romans 1, Corinthians, and Ephesians explains.
I refuse to believe a loving God has certain people born into a destination of hell, I also believe that while yes we can choose to follow Christ it is never by our own efforts or will because we must be drawn first and that is the key point there being drawn toi him
 
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From Ephesians 1 verses 4-6 ~ He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the Beloved One.
 
Once again asserting sin = "inability" ........defined as the inability to respond positively from birth and believe in the Good News unless the person is uniquely, personally, animated (special gnosis) is false equivocation.
Where can in scripture does it say that we can freely choose to follow God without first being drawn to him? where does it call us free until CChrist sets us free? the ability to choose God never happens in our sinful nature there must be a change of the heart first and that happens as he calls us
 
Where can in scripture does it say that we can freely choose to follow God without first being drawn to him?
It doesn't. Scripture specifically articulates that it is by the will and desire of God and not man.

And those given to Jesus will come.
 
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Where can in scripture does it say that we can freely choose to follow God without first being drawn to him? where does it call us free until CChrist sets us free? the ability to choose God never happens in our sinful nature there must be a change of the heart first and that happens as he calls us

Regeneration (being placed in Christ) before belief/faith is not found in scripture, it is invented.
 
Regeneration (being placed in Christ) before belief/faith is not found in scripture, it is invented.
Right it is not so by logic how we can say that one has the freedom to choose Christ or not? it doesn't say that as far as I know but what it does say is that we must be drawn to him John 6:44: "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day
 
Right it is not so by logic how we can say that one has the freedom to choose Christ or not? it doesn't say that as far as I know but what it does say is that we must be drawn to him John 6:44: "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day
How is an unregenerated person going to receive the spiritual things of God while in a state of not being
able to receive the spiritual things of God? Scripture says, when we were DEAD He made us alive.
 
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Then the free willer blathers on about what it means to be spiritually dead.

Just more for them to mock and scoff, contradict and outright deny.

They do that to a shocking amount of Scripture.

Everyone hears, they say. Really? Scripture says something quite different.

The gospel is not hid, they say. Really? Scripture says something quite different.
 
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Thank you and that does not mean a person cannot believe the Good NEWS.
Not at all the gospel being preached means anyone can hear and believe it . I was saying that if we only red this out of context and misapply it

“But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:17‬ ‭NIV‬‬

then I might think all humans are just born and created as unwilling slaves to sin and aren’t free …..and can’t even hear what God said in the gospel unless he pre chose them in “the great lottery “ before creation

abut if we look more at what Paul’s actually saying in his explaination it’s more like a young man who is pressured and tempted into trying crack and then the second time it’s a little easier to convince him but the third and fourth time is when he begins to lose the ability to just say no , the freedom to not be a drug addict is slowly taken from him and soon he begins to have all his life and actions influenced by the lust and need for this new drug that he’s now addicted to and has lost his free Will regarding. And can also obey from the heart the new doctrine and be set free of sins dominion tbat we freely yielded ourselves to in our lives

If you look at what Paul’s saying he’s saying” if you yield to sin and serve it , you’re a servant of sin . “ then “ you all used to do that but now you have accepted and obeyed the gospel and been set free of sins dominion over you “

He goes on to tell them “ as you used to yield your selves to sin and lust , now yeild yourselves to God “ agaon showing that he’s restoring the freedom they began with and gave away to sin

a far cry from “ we’re all born incapable and have no choice as forced slaves to sin “


Slaves don’t begin by yielding themselves to their slave master they are forced into or born into slavery and had no freedom or choice we do have a choice of who to yield ourselves we’re just corrupt and not perfect so we eventually yield to sin and become servants to it

Another example is if you have a fofteen yeat old boy who starts watching pornography . He wasn’t wanting all that perverted stuff before he chose to watch the porn but after awhile he’s going to begin wanting and lusting after those things he’s freely chosen to watch …..and again it will become like the same principle of an addiction he’ll begin to lose his ability to keep his mind and desires clean and pure it they’ll be corrupted by what he’s chosen to take in and dwell on and look at and imagine for himself tbrough lust

We choose to serve sin and then our flesh craves more and more of it that’s how we become captives to do. and lose our freedom and need deliverance
 
Right it is not so by logic how we can say that one has the freedom to choose Christ or not? it doesn't say that as far as I know but what it does say is that we must be drawn to him John 6:44: "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day

Scripture is not understood correctly apart from using correct hermeneutics and within context.
 
It is a vain man-exalting philosophically based precept elevated to Bible doctrine when it is not in the Bible at all.


John 3 verse 6, Romans 8 verse 7, Galatians 5 verse 17, 2 Timothy 3 verse 13, Romans 3 verse 18 ~ Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. The mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. The flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other. Evil men and imposters go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. There is no fear of God before their eyes.
If you read the early church fathers they ALL believed in free will. You can ask chatGPT if you dont believe me heh

Both predestination and free will can be called philosophical. Where do you think Augustine got the idea? From Manichaeism from which he converted to christianity and brought it with him. That is why nobody believed in everything being predestinated until Augustine came along. Think about that, for 400 years no one believed it.

Then Johnny come lately comes in, not knowing any greek or hebrew and just brings in ideas that have plagued us ever since and John Calvin took his system from that guy.
 
please provide the verses upon which you rely in your claim that faith is God's gift. thanks.





please provide the post submitted by me wherein I indicated I "don't like God's gift. thanks.





please provide the post submitted by me wherein I indicated I am "too good for His gracious gift". thank you.





please provide the post submitted by me wherein I indicated "God would be playing favorites if He did that". thanks.


If you cannot provide the requested information, then perhaps you should preview the post you intend to submit before you click "Post reply" ... all you are doing when you denigrate fellow believers is reveal that you are unable to control your natural brutish instincts.

Again, I ask: Are you born again, Rufus? Is the Jesus Christ Lord in your life?
.

I simply asked you questions that reflect your comrades' sentiments about God's grace and/or his gifts. Why would I ask you questions about specific things that you have stated? :rolleyes: I'm asked the questions because you seem to question the biblical fact that faith is a precious gift from God.

But since you ask about the scriptures that support my premise that faith is indeed a divine gift, here they are: Jn 6:28-29; Act 13:16; 15:9; 18:27; Rom 12:3; Eph 2:8-10; 1Tim 1:14; 1Pet 1:3-5; 2Pet 1:3-4; 1Cor 4:7.
 
This may be the case but when we arte born are not born into sin? do we not do as the flesh desires? if this is to be the case then are we not slaves to our own sinful desires? the bible never mentions man as free until we are free in Christ but it does mention man as being slaves to sin

If in fact we are free to choose as we please why is it that we still sin no matter how hard we try before we are born again? I ask this as an actual question because many have tried to not sin in the past but only Jesus was able to pull this off.
“This may be the case but when we arte born are not born into sin?”

no he doesn’t look at children as sinners bro he told grown sinners to become like the little children because the kingdom belonged to such as those . What Paul’s saying there again sort of really is valuable look again

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?

( we choose to serve sin we aren’t born that way )

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He isnt saying “ you were all born sinners and had no choice in who to yield yourselves to as servants “

hes saying” don’t you onow that whoever you choose to serve , that’s who’s servants you are whether of sin leading to death ? Or of obedience leading to righteousness ?

a then he says “ you used to be servants of sin ( because you were yielded to it and served it , but now you have o eyed the doctrine that makes you free from sin …..remember what doctrine that is ?

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

( they reply free ? We aren’t slaves to anyone )

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin…… If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 34, 36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

hes saying what Paul said if you commit sin , you’re a servant of sin.

sin is like this brother 👦 ta not just programmed and predetermined it’s a temptation because of the list in us from good and evil

“but every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Do not err, my beloved brethren.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:14-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See even cain wasn’t just “born a sinner “ he was given a choice “ do what’s right and you’ll be accepted but of you don’t do what’s right , sin is crouching and waiting it desires to have you but you must rule over it “

then he killed his brother yielding to sin and became a servant of sin and then was cut off from his relationship with God.

Its the same for us all we’re born and then later we become aware of good and evil we get tempted and begin to yield ourselves to sin and become servants of sin

children aren’t born wrong we become wrong through negligences and wrong ideas and doctrines and lies ect

“and said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God has nothing against children but much against people who knowingly commit sin
 
I simply asked you questions that reflect your comrades' sentiments about God's grace and/or his gifts. Why would I ask you questions about specific things that you have stated? :rolleyes: I'm asked the questions because you seem to question the biblical fact that faith is a precious gift from God.

But since you ask about the scriptures that support my premise that faith is indeed a divine gift, here they are: Jn 6:28-29; Act 13:16; 15:9; 18:27; Rom 12:3; Eph 2:8-10; 1Tim 1:14; 1Pet 1:3-5; 2Pet 1:3-4; 1Cor 4:7.
Yes faith is a gift and anyone who denies that contradicts his word Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God"