Those who died in Christ.

[Racham]

This is titled "those who died in Christ."
Those Who Died in Christ

13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep [k]in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive [l]and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a [m]shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive [n]and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

--ThessaloNians chapter 4.

Reading the entire passage, it seems obvious that Paul is talking about what happens to the dead, not anything else.

As I did much deeper research, there does not seem to be a real support for a rapture.

Daniel 7:22, 26 talks about the kiNgdoms under heaven being handed to the saints.

Micah 4 &5 when the Assyrian rises (evidently some wicked will attempt an uprisiNg, it is put down By 8 men.

Zechariah 14 Jesus returns when people serviNg God are attacked.

There is nothing about a rapture, when the saints come with Jesus it is to fight and depose the wicked.

As a side point, the rapture is a recent invention of the past 100-120 years. No other scholars outside this time talk about it.

At each step, Jesus is in actual control. There is no bizarre time when aN ungodly person has complete control. That says something and makes it sound like such ficticious stories come from something evil rather than an understanding of scripture.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

As a side point, the rapture is a recent invention of the past 100-120 years. No other scholars outside this time talk about it.
...an understanding of scripture.

Precious friend, will have to disagree: Biblical since Christ, from heaven, gave it to Paul, in
The Revelation Of The Mystery, for The Body Of Christ:

God's Great GRACE Departure!

Amen.

 

[Brasspen]

The letter makes me think the letter was written for a recent funeral of someone. Or maybe there just was some talk going around that church or city.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Reading the entire passage, it seems obvious that Paul is talking about what happens to the dead, not anything else.

please re-read the verses you submitted:

13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep [k]in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive [l]and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a [m]shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive [n]and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

The verses are not just "talking about what happens to the dead" ... the "we who are alive and remain" are not dead.

The event these verses relate to indicates that the dead in Christ rise first ... then those in Christ who are alive will follow.

I believe you can see this same truth in 1 Cor 15:

1 Corinthians 15: 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead [dead] shall be raised incorruptible, and we [alive] shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible [dead] must put on incorruption, and this mortal [alive] must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

hope this helps ...
.

 

[Webers.Home]

The letter makes me think the letter was written for a recent funeral of someone. Or maybe there
just was some talk going around that church or city.

From what I gather, the scope of Christianity's resurrection was not well
understood in the Roman world at first. Many of the early Christians back
then sincerely believed that when people died, they were gone forever. It
took a while to get the word out that the passing of one's Christian loved
ones is a temporary loss rather than permanent.
_

 

[studentoftheword]

As I did much deeper research, there does not seem to be a real support for a rapture.

Well I think you need to do some more research and go through the Holy Spirit not yourself cause the Scripture clearly supports the Rapture of the Saints BEFORE the 7 Year Tribulation ----

And as another posted pointed out to you ---the scripture you yourself posted does give evidence for the Rapture of the Saints ----so maybe your understanding is not there yet ----to see what the Scripture you posted is really saying --just maybe what it says is above your understanding for where you are in your walk with Christ ----if you are born again ????

The Holy Spirit if you have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit ??? will only give you the Knowledge that you can handle as to your Spiritual understanding ---

No saint will be on this earth when the 7 year Tribulation starts ----the Tribulation is for all unbelievers hoping that some will eventually become Saints as they go through the 7 Tribulation ----but some will still refuse to come to Christ during that time ----and at Jesus Second coming He comes back bringing all His Saints with him that He Raptured before the Tribulation to defeat Satan and then He separates the saved from the unsaved that went through the 7 year Tribulation and sends the unsaved away and leaves the Saved here to set up His New Earth along with all the other saints He Raptured -----

Do your Research ---again----- I say ----as there is clear evidence for all this in scripture ----

There is no sign given for the Rapture ----the Rapture can happen today --tomorrow ---next week --next month --next year or 10 years from now -----the scripture indicateG the Rapture will happen when the last Gentile is saved on this earth as it is -----

AI Overview

The idea that the Rapture occurs when the last Gentile is saved is a specific interpretation within Christian eschatology linked to the belief that God is working through a specific "age of the Gentiles". This view, often associated with dispensationalism, suggests that once the predetermined number of Gentiles (individuals not of Jewish descent) who will be saved during this period has been reached, the Church will be taken up in the Rapture. Following this, God will then turn His attention to Israel, offering them a final opportunity for salvation.

Here's a more detailed explanation:

• The Age of the Gentiles:
  This concept, often derived from Romans 11:25, suggests a period in which God is primarily focused on bringing Gentiles into the Christian faith.
  
  
• Fullness of the Gentiles:
  The "fullness of the Gentiles" refers to the completion of this period, the point at which God has saved the predetermined number of Gentiles.
  
  
• The Rapture:
  According to this view, the Rapture, the belief that believers will be taken up to meet Christ in the air, occurs at the end of the "age of the Gentiles," marking the transition to God's focus on Israel.
  
  
• Focus on Israel:
  Following the Rapture, this interpretation suggests that God will turn His attention to the Jewish people, offering them a final period of opportunity for salvation and fulfilling His promises to them.
  
  
• Tribulation Period:
  This view often includes a period of tribulation, a time of judgment and hardship, which may be experienced by both Jews and Gentiles who are not saved before the Rapture.

 

[Racham]

please re-read the verses you submitted:

13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep [k]in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive [l]and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a [m]shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive [n]and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

The verses are not just "talking about what happens to the dead" ... the "we who are alive and remain" are not dead.

The event these verses relate to indicates that the dead in Christ rise first ... then those in Christ who are alive will follow.

I believe you can see this same truth in 1 Cor 15:

1 Corinthians 15: 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead [dead] shall be raised incorruptible, and we [alive] shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible [dead] must put on incorruption, and this mortal [alive] must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

hope this helps ...
.

The last trumpet is Armageddon. I thought revelation says the dead will be ressurected after it?
But the seVenth trumpet is the worst of the worst plagues against the wicked and thoSe who worship government

 

[studentoftheword]

Racham
you can put all the XXXXXXXX you want ---but you need to seriously re research scripture --or understand it is above your pay grade of understanding ---- the X isn't going to change that ----

 

[GWH]

please re-read the verses you submitted:

13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep [k]in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive [l]and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a [m]shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive [n]and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

The verses are not just "talking about what happens to the dead" ... the "we who are alive and remain" are not dead.

The event these verses relate to indicates that the dead in Christ rise first ... then those in Christ who are alive will follow.

I believe you can see this same truth in 1 Cor 15:

1 Corinthians 15: 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead [dead] shall be raised incorruptible, and we [alive] shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible [dead] must put on incorruption, and this mortal [alive] must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

hope this helps ...
.

If that doesn't help, nothing will!
(hope my vertigo gets healed prior :^)

 

[Racham]

Racham
you can put all the XXXXXXXX you want ---but you need to seriously re research scripture --or understand it is above your pay grade of understanding ---- the X isn't going to change that ----

Ok. Everything not planted By God will be uprooted.

 

[Racham]

If that doesn't help, nothing will!
(hope my vertigo gets healed prior :^)

I will pray about your vertigo.
B12

People skills are good. Humility is better.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

(hope my vertigo gets healed prior :^)

praying ...
.

 

[Intersection]

https://www.google.com/search?q=whe...gBwCyBwC4BwDCBwMzLTLIBxk&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

AI Overview

The term "rapture" in its specific apocalyptic sense, referring to the catching up of believers to heaven at the Second Coming, is a relatively modern concept within Christian theology. While the word "rapture" itself has older origins, its specific usage to describe a pre-tribulation or separate event from the Second Coming gained prominence in the early 1800s, particularly among dispensationalist thinkers like John Nelson Darby.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

• Early Usage:
  The word "rapture" has roots in Latin and has been used in English literature since the 17th century, often with meanings related to intense joy or being carried away.
  
  
• Biblical Basis:
  The concept of being "caught up" (using the Greek word harpazo) is found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, but early church fathers didn't universally interpret this as a separate event from the Second Coming.
  
  
• Development of the Doctrine:
  The modern understanding of the rapture as a distinct event, often preceding a period of tribulation, developed in the 19th century, largely through the influence of John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren.
  
  
• Pre-Tribulation Rapture:
  The specific idea of a pre-tribulation rapture, where believers are taken to heaven before a period of great tribulation, is even more recent, gaining widespread acceptance in the 20th century, partly due to the influence of the Scofield Reference Bible.
  

So, while the word "rapture" has been around for centuries, its specific apocalyptic meaning, particularly in the context of a pre-tribulation event, is a more recent development in Christian theology.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

This is titled "those who died in Christ."
Those Who Died in Christ

13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep [k]in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive [l]and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a [m]shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive [n]and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

--ThessaloNians chapter 4.

Reading the entire passage, it seems obvious that Paul is talking about what happens to the dead, not anything else.

As I did much deeper research, there does not seem to be a real support for a rapture.

Daniel 7:22, 26 talks about the kiNgdoms under heaven being handed to the saints.

Micah 4 &5 when the Assyrian rises (evidently some wicked will attempt an uprisiNg, it is put down By 8 men.

Zechariah 14 Jesus returns when people serviNg God are attacked.

There is nothing about a rapture, when the saints come with Jesus it is to fight and depose the wicked.

As a side point, the rapture is a recent invention of the past 100-120 years. No other scholars outside this time talk about it.

At each step, Jesus is in actual control. There is no bizarre time when aN ungodly person has complete control. That says something and makes it sound like such ficticious stories come from something evil rather than an understanding of scripture.

It’s about the second coming

“For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words “

Its what Christian’s are waiting for

“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The day Jesus returns fro heaven just as he left into heaven

“And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul is giving more details of that day when he returns he entered heaven after he rose up bit at the end he’s coming back from heaven

“and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; ( then he went into heaven )

and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.” (He’s coming back though )
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

like Paul’s saying

the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, “


Its not a pre trib rapture it’s what’s going to happen at the end of this world when Jesus comes back that “ flaming fire”

“knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? ( see it was going to be a long time ) for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. ( flaming fire taking vengeance )But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. ( fire )

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:3-4, 7, 10,

pauls describing the return of the king Jesus Christ and the destruction of those who rejected and rebelled against him

They all add different details of the second coming at the end it’s what Jesus said in the gospel

 

[Racham]

Ive started to notice quite a few people presenting themselves as experts or misrepresenting the holy ghost then trying to claim that I haVe broken something.

'The Pharasees and Saducees traverse land and water to make just one disciple, then make that person a 1000 times more liable to Gehenna.

Such are these.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Ive started to notice quite a few people presenting themselves as experts or misrepresenting the holy ghost then trying to claim that I haVe broken something.

'The Pharasees and Saducees traverse land and water to make just one disciple, then make that person a 1000 times more liable to Gehenna.

Such are these.

thats basically what happens to everyone here

 

[Racham]

thats basically what happens to everyone here

Ok. So, silicon comes from sand.
Water will wash it away.
We post with electrons on a forum with deVices that rely upon sand, chemically treated as a substrate. Such is the impermanence of it, not something where a mind is controlled except by weak designs. But, seasons change, there is nothing new. People will forget a technology that feels like slavery and that represents sin. Does technology lead people to trust in technology, or God?

Only the one who digs deep to a firm foundation in Christ. With a mind as broad as the Sand of the sea, realizing that we are but fat that act as antennas for ideas (spirits) may we regain the creative power that existed at dominion.
For it is not protien or bone that grows iniquity but fat itself.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Ok. So, silicon comes from sand.
Water will wash it away.
We post with electrons on a forum with deVices that rely upon sand, chemically treated as a substrate. Such is the impermanence of it, not something where a mind is controlled except by weak designs. But, seasons change, there is nothing new. People will forget a technology that feels like slavery and that represents sin. Does technology lead people to trust in technology, or God?

Only the one who digs deep to a firm foundation in Christ. With a mind as broad as the Sand of the sea, realizing that we are but fat that act as antennas for ideas (spirits) may we regain the creative power that existed at dominion.
For it is not protien or bone that grows iniquity but fat itself.

Alrighty

 

[Racham]

Alrighty

Dominion is Gods Declaration to haVe in subjeCtion the earth and everything in it, to keep it.

Solomon was giVen a mind with the Breadth (meaSurement) of the sands of the sea.

Fat was giVen in offerings to God, iniquity is twisted hardeNed sin like prions.

Spirits Can Be evicted in Jesus naMe.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Dominion is Gods Declaration to haVe in subjeCtion the earth and everything in it, to keep it.

Solomon was giVen a mind with the Breadth (meaSurement) of the sands of the sea.

Fat was giVen in offerings to God, iniquity is twisted hardeNed sin like prions.

Spirits Can Be evicted in Jesus naMe.

“Dominion is Gods Declaration to haVe in subjeCtion the earth and everything in it, to keep it.”

Amen and what’s his determination regarding dominion upon earth from the beginning ?

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

At this point mans dorection and mindset is now an integral point of his plan whatever man does the state of creation will follow because he gave dominion to mankind upon the earth

“The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's:

But the earth hath he given to the children of men.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭115:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

all creation is the lords who made it but his determination about earth was man would have dominion upon earth . And so when man was corrupted creation followed suit


“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

…The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-6, 11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬