You're talking out of both sides of your mouth; for you don't believe for a second that his grace is effectual. You still believe that it's man's will that effectually saves him.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
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You're talking out of both sides of your mouth; for you don't believe for a second that his grace is effectual. You still believe that it's man's will that effectually saves him.
If i refuse to see i am a lover of darkness then let people read my posts and see if my words convict me. If you refuse to see yourself as a hateful self righteous human being. Then let them read your very words and see if your words convict you.
P.S your opinion of me does not matter never will . God knows every word that has been typed in here and every thought that went along with it. Its only His opinion that matters. Not yours never has been never will be.
Some of them do say you can lose your salvation... oh, CDS is Calvinism Derangement Syndrome. Many here have it. They project their hostility of Calvin onto Bible believers they disagree with. It becomes a convenient way for them to dismiss Scriptures being presented. "You're a Calvinist!" Whether you are or not. Despite the very salient fact that the very thing they hate is not exclusively taught in Calvinism.
But the FWers in their arrogance and pride must make Rom 8:29-30 all about themselves! They think they are the center of the universe! It's all about ME, ME, ME, ME -- MY faith that God foresaw, MY repentance that He saw in his cosmic crystal ball, etc., etc.
Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.
Btw, you cannot "will" belief... just thought you should know.
Of course you refuse to see. What choice do you have apart from God's grace? You can no more choose contrary to your nature than the Creator can.
I've said you can the very last verses of the Bible tell you that and even tell you how. I know no man goverment angel or demon power or dominion can take you out of Jesus's hand but the Father who gave you as almighty God can. If you take away of the sayings and the prophecies of this book I will take your name out of the book of life.
You cannot be taken out of the book of life unless you were in it. And you cannot be in the book of life unless your were of the elect. God tells you that you can loose it and even gives a reason why.
Kind of like our elections when we elect or choose some one and they do something ridiculous they get recalled.
Have you ever met someone who actually hasn’t heard of Jesus ? Like you say “ do you believe in Jesus ?” And they say … who’s that ?”
A way to know God existed, but no one comes to the Father except by Christ. There is only 1 mediator between God and man.
He’s trying to repair that
“For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
Philippians 2:13 KJV
abut we keep rejecting what he taught us to believe and do. If we would accept his word it would change our Will
Good thing he sent out the gospel the power of salvation to all creation ….phew !
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
No one could have ever heard the gospel and believed it and been saved but through Christ finishing his part
I am speaking about where belief comes, it does not come from the active will, it comes from being persuaded something is true, based on the evidence.
Placing one's trust in "the Saviour" which is an act of the will comes after one is persuaded of its truth.
If you do not think something IS true, you cannot will yourself to believe it.
But nowhere does scripture state we cannot believe the Gospel is true, some are persuaded, some are not.
Scripture does say those who are perishing which is unbelievers hear the gospel as foolishness.
In your experience, do people decide to believe what is nonsense to them?
Don't know. But I don't live in the Middle East. But we do know there have been people groups who never heard the gospel.
“I am speaking about where belief comes, it does not come from the active will, it comes from being persuaded something is true, based on the evidence.”
amen .
“Placing one's trust in "the Saviour" which is an act of the will comes after one is persuaded of its truth.”
amen indeed hearing births belief belief births action . But what I’m saying is as you hear that truth and word and become convinced it’s true that’s the very thing that begins to change our corrupt Will
wasnt at all disagreeing just saying how we were before Jesus inside isn’t how he leaves us if we’re willing to follow him.
“But nowhere does scripture state we cannot believe the Gospel is true, some are persuaded, some are not.”
right . I think some are confused by Israel’s cirse in tbe ot when God made them deaf and blind to his word after generetions of breaking the covenant . Eventually he said this bout israel specifically
“And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,”
Isaiah 6:9-11 KJV
then they erroneously apply this direct result of the covenant cirses as of everyone’s just born that way ….but no God made them specifically like that for a purpose it’s one of the most repeatedly quoted set of verses in the Bible that he made them blind and deaf to his word because they rejected it so long .
as d so they see that he’s showing a small remnant of isreal like he said many times he would do when he came like the apostles he says this about them
“Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.”
John 15:16 KJV
And we tend to lump our own selves in with the remnant of Israel but we’re the many nations of Abraham’s children and aren’t the children of Jacob who were made blind and deaf due to thier rebellion
ado id a few Israelites were chosen then everyone is chosen is the flawed thought …” if Israel was made unable to hear and understand Gods word then everyone is just born like that “ but that’s not true at all they weren’t even born and created like that they spent generations rebelling against everything he told them and warned them about and then later he sent darkness and blindness and a spirit of stupor upon them so that they would reject Jesus have him crucified and then he could be sent to all humanity