Who is Jesus Christ in this verse and why they call him The Everlasting Father?

[Omegatime]

i remember hearing that the word used in what we translate as "The Image of the invisible God" carries the connotation of an embossment or impression, that is, an exact, direct transfer. the image formed in such a process is an individual thing relative to what it is formed of, but is in all ways indistinguishable.

Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Tim 1:17

 

[Godsgood]

i remember hearing that the word used in what we translate as "The Image of the invisible God" carries the connotation of an embossment or impression, that is, an exact, direct transfer. the image formed in such a process is an individual thing relative to what it is formed of, but is in all ways indistinguishable.

Let me make my understanding clear with your comment.

When you say "The Image of Invisible God" Are your referring to Jesus Physical Image?
Meaqns whatever the Physical image of Jesus is the image of the Father?

 

[Godsgood]

just a couple small things - -

Christ means Messiah, which means annointed one - Jesus means Yah is Salvation, and "He" is not in the text of John 8 - - it is, unless you believe I AM - - the name from Exodus 3.

Jesus is identifying Himself as that very I AM

Please elaborate more on what do you understand with this?

"Jesus is identifying Himself as that very I AM"

 

[Godsgood]

Are you a oneness guy?

No sir I'm not a Oneness guy.

It so happened that my recognition to Jesus is a revelation from God the Father.
From then I recognized the One True God sitting in 1 Throne in heaven as Juan said in Revelation 4:2

 

[posthuman]

Please elaborate more on what do you understand with this?

"Jesus is identifying Himself as that very I AM"

Christ is God omnibus thread

 

[Omegatime]

If the Lord Yeshua has revealed himself to you, and you, have accepted Him as your Savior you have nothing to fear. Lord gave many gifts to mankind as far as talents in Masonry , wood, crops, music, ect.. In this age many know the Son but not the Father.

Say you wish to have the Gift of Healing.

“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

To receive the Gifts one must know the Father who dispenses the invisible Spirit. One very powerful tool when one truly understands the Father and Yeshua are one.

 

[Godsgood]

Christ is God omnibus thread

"Jesus is identifying Himself as that very I AM"

Therefore: Jesus is the God of Moses.

EXODUS 3:13-14
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

 

[posthuman]

"Jesus is identifying Himself as that very I AM"

Therefore: Jesus is the God of Moses.

EXODUS 3:13-14
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

and again, every time He says "verily verily" that is a mistranslation, or rather, a translation that should leave the Hebrew word alone, like Greek does. He literally says, Amen Amen
Amen is a Hebrew word, a name, meaning Truth.

this is also identifying Himself as YHVH -

Isaiah 65:16 ​

So that he who blesses himself in the earth Shall bless himself in the God of truth; And he who swears in the earth Shall swear by the God of truth; Because the former troubles are forgotten, And because they are hidden from My eyes.​

​

tthis is also mistranslated, there is no 'of' between God and Truth - - it isn't an adjective, it's a noun, a name of Yah.
It literally says bless yourself by the God Amen

every time Jesus says Amen Amen I say to you, He is calling Himself the One True God, the One God Amen.

 

[posthuman]

Amen Amen I say to you

all the Prophets said, 'thus sayeth the LORD'

but Jesus says "I say"

 

[tygger2]

"Jesus is identifying Himself as that very I AM"

Therefore: Jesus is the God of Moses.

EXODUS 3:13-14
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

......................................................

Some trinitarians claim that Jesus was declaring himself to be Jehovah God because he said “I AM” (ego eimi in the original NT Greek) at John 8:58.

Their reasoning goes like this: Exodus 3:14 in some English Bible translations has Jehovah God revealing himself as “I AM WHO I AM” and “I AM.” So, they say, Jesus’ statement at John 8:58 shows him revealing himself by the same exclusive title (name? description?) as Jehovah (“I AM” at Exodus 3:14) and, therefore, he is Jehovah God!

Furthermore, some of these trinitarians say, the Jews understood perfectly that Jesus was claiming to be Jehovah when he used those two words because they immediately took up stones to kill him.

But these Jews of Judea had already decided beforehand to kill Jesus! (John 7:1, 25) They needed no further incentives. Nothing that Jesus said or did at this point would have made any difference to them.

If the Jews had really understood the phrase “I AM” (ego eimi) to mean the speaker was claiming to be Jehovah and that they should therefore kill him, they would have immediately stoned Jesus at John 8:24 or :28. (The actual Greek in the ancient Bible manuscripts is identical to John 8:58, ego eimi, but many English Bible translations properly add “he” so that it can be understood as “I am he” in English.)

We know that even his disciples didn’t believe Jesus was God simply because he said ego eimi, for he identified himself to them with these very same words at John 6:20 (usually rendered into English as “It is I”), and their reaction was certainly not that of those who had come into the presence of God! - Cf. the parallel Matt. 14:27.

We should also know that the Jews didn't believe it either. Otherwise they would have immediately stoned the ex-blind man who identified himself to the Jews by saying ego eimi: John 9:9.

 

[tygger2]

......................................................

Some trinitarians claim that Jesus was declaring himself to be Jehovah God because he said “I AM” (ego eimi in the original NT Greek) at John 8:58.

Their reasoning goes like this: Exodus 3:14 in some English Bible translations has Jehovah God revealing himself as “I AM WHO I AM” and “I AM.” So, they say, Jesus’ statement at John 8:58 shows him revealing himself by the same exclusive title (name? description?) as Jehovah (“I AM” at Exodus 3:14) and, therefore, he is Jehovah God!

Furthermore, some of these trinitarians say, the Jews understood perfectly that Jesus was claiming to be Jehovah when he used those two words because they immediately took up stones to kill him.

But these Jews of Judea had already decided beforehand to kill Jesus! (John 7:1, 25) They needed no further incentives. Nothing that Jesus said or did at this point would have made any difference to them.

If the Jews had really understood the phrase “I AM” (ego eimi) to mean the speaker was claiming to be Jehovah and that they should therefore kill him, they would have immediately stoned Jesus at John 8:24 or :28. (The actual Greek in the ancient Bible manuscripts is identical to John 8:58, ego eimi, but many English Bible translations properly add “he” so that it can be understood as “I am he” in English.)

We know that even his disciples didn’t believe Jesus was God simply because he said ego eimi, for he identified himself to them with these very same words at John 6:20 (usually rendered into English as “It is I”), and their reaction was certainly not that of those who had come into the presence of God! - Cf. the parallel Matt. 14:27.

We should also know that the Jews didn't believe it either. Otherwise they would have immediately stoned the ex-blind man who identified himself to the Jews by saying ego eimi: John 9:9.

............................................................................

“Now the chief priests and the whole Council kept trying to obtain false testimony against Jesus in order that they might put him to death; .... And the high priest said to him, ‘I adjure you by the living God, that you tell us whether you are the Christ, the Son of God.’” - Matt. 26:59, 63, NASB.

C’mon, be honest now! Could any honest person reasonably conclude that Jesus had claimed to be God at John 8:58 and that the deciding question at the Jews’ trial of Jesus would then be “are you the Christ?”

There is absolutely no suggestion that the Jews thought Jesus was calling himself God here! They asked no questions concerning such a thing. This is absolutely impossible if there could have been even a possibility that ego eimi at John 8:58 could mean the speaker was claiming to be God! Remember, this high court was looking for any reason to have Jesus killed!

 

[posthuman]

............................................................................

“Now the chief priests and the whole Council kept trying to obtain false testimony against Jesus in order that they might put him to death; .... And the high priest said to him, ‘I adjure you by the living God, that you tell us whether you are the Christ, the Son of God.’” - Matt. 26:59, 63, NASB.

C’mon, be honest now! Could any honest person reasonably conclude that Jesus had claimed to be God at John 8:58 and that the deciding question at the Jews’ trial of Jesus would then be “are you the Christ?”

There is absolutely no suggestion that the Jews thought Jesus was calling himself God here! They asked no questions concerning such a thing. This is absolutely impossible if there could have been even a possibility that ego eimi at John 8:58 could mean the speaker was claiming to be God! Remember, this high court was looking for any reason to have Jesus killed!

it is easy to understand that the blind do not see and the dead do not hear

 

[posthuman]

dead

*deaf

 

[posthuman]

and again, every time He says "verily verily" that is a mistranslation, or rather, a translation that should leave the Hebrew word alone, like Greek does. He literally says, Amen Amen
Amen is a Hebrew word, a name, meaning Truth.

this is also identifying Himself as YHVH -

Isaiah 65:16 ​

So that he who blesses himself in the earth Shall bless himself in the God of truth; And he who swears in the earth Shall swear by the God of truth; Because the former troubles are forgotten, And because they are hidden from My eyes.​

​

this is also mistranslated, there is no 'of' between God and Truth - - it isn't an adjective, it's a noun, a name of Yah.
It literally says bless yourself by the God Amen

every time Jesus says Amen Amen I say to you, He is calling Himself the One True God, the One God Amen.

cfe Revelation 3:14

to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, 'These things says The Amen' ​

​

in John 14:6 Truth is written using a Greek word, but here the Hebrew is preserved. now, did Christ speak John 14:6 in Greek? or did He also say there, I AM The Amen?

 

[Hakawaka]

......................................................

Some trinitarians claim that Jesus was declaring himself to be Jehovah God because he said “I AM” (ego eimi in the original NT Greek) at John 8:58.

Their reasoning goes like this: Exodus 3:14 in some English Bible translations has Jehovah God revealing himself as “I AM WHO I AM” and “I AM.” So, they say, Jesus’ statement at John 8:58 shows him revealing himself by the same exclusive title (name? description?) as Jehovah (“I AM” at Exodus 3:14) and, therefore, he is Jehovah God!

Furthermore, some of these trinitarians say, the Jews understood perfectly that Jesus was claiming to be Jehovah when he used those two words because they immediately took up stones to kill him.

But these Jews of Judea had already decided beforehand to kill Jesus! (John 7:1, 25) They needed no further incentives. Nothing that Jesus said or did at this point would have made any difference to them.

If the Jews had really understood the phrase “I AM” (ego eimi) to mean the speaker was claiming to be Jehovah and that they should therefore kill him, they would have immediately stoned Jesus at John 8:24 or :28. (The actual Greek in the ancient Bible manuscripts is identical to John 8:58, ego eimi, but many English Bible translations properly add “he” so that it can be understood as “I am he” in English.)

We know that even his disciples didn’t believe Jesus was God simply because he said ego eimi, for he identified himself to them with these very same words at John 6:20 (usually rendered into English as “It is I”), and their reaction was certainly not that of those who had come into the presence of God! - Cf. the parallel Matt. 14:27.

We should also know that the Jews didn't believe it either. Otherwise they would have immediately stoned the ex-blind man who identified himself to the Jews by saying ego eimi: John 9:9.

An angel was called the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob as well.

Exodus 23:20-21
Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.


This same angel is the one that said the words I am the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob from the burning bush:

Exodus 3:2,6
And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

 

[Godsgood]

......................................................

Some trinitarians claim that Jesus was declaring himself to be Jehovah God because he said “I AM” (ego eimi in the original NT Greek) at John 8:58.

Their reasoning goes like this: Exodus 3:14 in some English Bible translations has Jehovah God revealing himself as “I AM WHO I AM” and “I AM.” So, they say, Jesus’ statement at John 8:58 shows him revealing himself by the same exclusive title (name? description?) as Jehovah (“I AM” at Exodus 3:14) and, therefore, he is Jehovah God!

Furthermore, some of these trinitarians say, the Jews understood perfectly that Jesus was claiming to be Jehovah when he used those two words because they immediately took up stones to kill him.

But these Jews of Judea had already decided beforehand to kill Jesus! (John 7:1, 25) They needed no further incentives. Nothing that Jesus said or did at this point would have made any difference to them.

If the Jews had really understood the phrase “I AM” (ego eimi) to mean the speaker was claiming to be Jehovah and that they should therefore kill him, they would have immediately stoned Jesus at John 8:24 or :28. (The actual Greek in the ancient Bible manuscripts is identical to John 8:58, ego eimi, but many English Bible translations properly add “he” so that it can be understood as “I am he” in English.)

We know that even his disciples didn’t believe Jesus was God simply because he said ego eimi, for he identified himself to them with these very same words at John 6:20 (usually rendered into English as “It is I”), and their reaction was certainly not that of those who had come into the presence of God! - Cf. the parallel Matt. 14:27.

We should also know that the Jews didn't believe it either. Otherwise they would have immediately stoned the ex-blind man who identified himself to the Jews by saying ego eimi: John 9:9.

Aside from Jesus is the God of Moses.
Jesus himself said he is the God of Abraham.
No other God in the times of Abraham but God the Father alone.

JOHN 8:56-58
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

 

[posthuman]

There is absolutely no suggestion that the Jews thought Jesus was calling himself God here! They asked no questions concerning such a thing. This is absolutely impossible if there could have been even a possibility that ego eimi at John 8:58 could mean the speaker was claiming to be God! Remember, this high court was looking for any reason to have Jesus killed!

Jesus said to them, “Amen Amen, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”​

Then they took up stones to throw at Him​

​

they asked no questions whatsoever but immediately sought to kill Him for what they considered blasphemy - - exactly the charge they made against Him at the Sanhedrin, that, He, being a man, made Himself equal to God.

if He is not God, He was justly condemned - both by the Jews and by you.
however if He is God, The Faith is true.

any belief contrary to the deity of Jesus Christ is categorically not Christianity.

 

[tygger2]

Jesus said to them, “Amen Amen, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”​

Then they took up stones to throw at Him​

​

they asked no questions whatsoever but immediately sought to kill Him for what they considered blasphemy - - exactly the charge they made against Him at the Sanhedrin, that, He, being a man, made Himself equal to God.

if He is not God, He was justly condemned - both by the Jews and by you.
however if He is God, The Faith is true.

any belief contrary to the deity of Jesus Christ is categorically not Christianity.

..........................................................................

All the other places where ehyeh is used in the the books of Moses are listed below. You will find they always mean "I will be" not "I am," particularly when it is Jehovah speaking about his relationship to his people (as also in Ex. 3:14)
See ehyeh in an OT Interlinear at Exodus 3:14:
Now look up the other scriptures which use ehyeh and see how they are translated:
Genesis 26:3 (Jehovah: "I will be with you" NRSV)
Genesis 31:3 (Jehovah: "I will be with you" NRSV)
Exodus 3:12 (Jehovah: I will be with you" NRSV)
Exodus 4:12 (Jehovah: "I will be with your mouth" NRSV)
Exodus 4:15 (Jehovah: "I will be with your mouth" NRSV)
Deuteronomy 32:23 (Moses: "I will be with you" NRSV)

The very early Christian translators Theodotion and Aquila (ca. 140 A.D.) both translated this passage from the OT Hebrew (“and God spoke to Moses, saying, ehyeh asher ehyeh”) as esomai hos esomai (Greek for “I will be who I will be”). – Found in Origen’s Hexapla.

Speaking of the Hebrew word ehyeh in the OT, Ringgren writes: “When the consecutive forms are eliminated, only 29 of the remaining occurrences belong to statements made by God concerning himself. The majority of these (22) are found in uses of the ‘covenant formula’ (III.3) or similar statements.
….
“This situation suggests that the correct translation of Ex. 3:14 should be: ‘I will be who I will be.’ The ancient versions of Aquila and Theodotion understood the Hebrew text in this sense (esomai hos esomai). Such an interpretation is also supported by the appearance of the expression ‘I will be with you’ in Ex. 3:12.” - Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament, Vol. 3, pp. 380 - 381.

This fact is also admitted on p. 18 in note #66 of:
Trinity Journal 1 NS (1980) 5-20
Trinity Evangelical Divinity School.

 

[posthuman]

..........................................................................

All the other places where ehyeh is used in the the books of Moses are listed below. You will find they always mean "I will be" not "I am," particularly when it is Jehovah speaking about his relationship to his people (as also in Ex. 3:14)
See ehyeh in an OT Interlinear at Exodus 3:14:
Now look up the other scriptures which use ehyeh and see how they are translated:
Genesis 26:3 (Jehovah: "I will be with you" NRSV)
Genesis 31:3 (Jehovah: "I will be with you" NRSV)
Exodus 3:12 (Jehovah: I will be with you" NRSV)
Exodus 4:12 (Jehovah: "I will be with your mouth" NRSV)
Exodus 4:15 (Jehovah: "I will be with your mouth" NRSV)
Deuteronomy 32:23 (Moses: "I will be with you" NRSV)

The very early Christian translators Theodotion and Aquila (ca. 140 A.D.) both translated this passage from the OT Hebrew (“and God spoke to Moses, saying, ehyeh asher ehyeh”) as esomai hos esomai (Greek for “I will be who I will be”). – Found in Origen’s Hexapla.

Speaking of the Hebrew word ehyeh in the OT, Ringgren writes: “When the consecutive forms are eliminated, only 29 of the remaining occurrences belong to statements made by God concerning himself. The majority of these (22) are found in uses of the ‘covenant formula’ (III.3) or similar statements.
….
“This situation suggests that the correct translation of Ex. 3:14 should be: ‘I will be who I will be.’ The ancient versions of Aquila and Theodotion understood the Hebrew text in this sense (esomai hos esomai). Such an interpretation is also supported by the appearance of the expression ‘I will be with you’ in Ex. 3:12.” - Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament, Vol. 3, pp. 380 - 381.

This fact is also admitted on p. 18 in note #66 of:
Trinity Journal 1 NS (1980) 5-20
Trinity Evangelical Divinity School.

any belief that denies the deity of Christ is inconsistent with the scripture and is categorically not Christianity.

 

[posthuman]

..........................................................................

All the other places where ehyeh is used in the the books of Moses are listed below. You will find they always mean "I will be" not "I am," particularly when it is Jehovah speaking about his relationship to his people (as also in Ex. 3:14)
See ehyeh in an OT Interlinear at Exodus 3:14:
Now look up the other scriptures which use ehyeh and see how they are translated:
Genesis 26:3 (Jehovah: "I will be with you" NRSV)
Genesis 31:3 (Jehovah: "I will be with you" NRSV)
Exodus 3:12 (Jehovah: I will be with you" NRSV)
Exodus 4:12 (Jehovah: "I will be with your mouth" NRSV)
Exodus 4:15 (Jehovah: "I will be with your mouth" NRSV)
Deuteronomy 32:23 (Moses: "I will be with you" NRSV)

The very early Christian translators Theodotion and Aquila (ca. 140 A.D.) both translated this passage from the OT Hebrew (“and God spoke to Moses, saying, ehyeh asher ehyeh”) as esomai hos esomai (Greek for “I will be who I will be”). – Found in Origen’s Hexapla.

Speaking of the Hebrew word ehyeh in the OT, Ringgren writes: “When the consecutive forms are eliminated, only 29 of the remaining occurrences belong to statements made by God concerning himself. The majority of these (22) are found in uses of the ‘covenant formula’ (III.3) or similar statements.
….
“This situation suggests that the correct translation of Ex. 3:14 should be: ‘I will be who I will be.’ The ancient versions of Aquila and Theodotion understood the Hebrew text in this sense (esomai hos esomai). Such an interpretation is also supported by the appearance of the expression ‘I will be with you’ in Ex. 3:12.” - Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament, Vol. 3, pp. 380 - 381.

This fact is also admitted on p. 18 in note #66 of:
Trinity Journal 1 NS (1980) 5-20
Trinity Evangelical Divinity School.

wrong passage.

Exodus 3:14-15​

Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'​

... ​

This [is] My name forever, and this [is] My memorial to all generations.​

Aquila and Theodotion understood the Hebrew text in this sense

both were Jewish proselytes who persecuted Christians. Aquilla in particular was at one time a Christian then rejected the faith - an antichrist by definition.

Christ-God is not merely Who "will be" but Who is, Who was, and Who will be