Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[fredoheaven]

John 6:47 KJV — Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

This is what really the pattern and so simple just as Paul did. Paul says follow me as I follow Christ. In essense, one is to
believe on Christ to have everlating life. Faith before regeneration and not the otherway around as Calvies is saying of regeneration in order to have faith.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

... The gospel is not hid. ...

I am one who states that the gospel is not hid by God ... question why you do not quote the full statement and you continuously leave off that last vital point ...

In effect, you twist my words (and the words of others) into something I (we) never said or inferred:

snippet from Post 4482 ...

"I have repeatedly clarified that it is God Who has declared the gospel from Genesis to Revelation ... that God has not hid the gospel from anyone ... and it is error on the part of some who fold the gospel into wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom (1 Cor 2:7). Belief in the gospel of Christ by which the believer is born again, is only the first step ... the door now opens to take the first step on the path wherein God reveals Himself and His wonderful mysteries and truths to the believer. This is a lifelong endeavor which begins in this life and goes on into life everlasting ... there is no end to the unsearchable riches of Christ. "​

snippet from Post 4508 ...

"... God never hid the gospel.​

​

God, however, tells us there was something hid in Him from the foundation of the world until He revealed it to Paul. Some folks fold the gospel of Christ into this wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom (1 Cor 2:7) ... which is error."​

snippet from Post 4142 ...

"God never hid the gospel ... it is revealed in Scripture from Genesis to Revelation.​

​

On the other hand, 2 Cor 2:7 speaks of the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom ... which goes beyond the scope of the gospel."​

If you're going to state something was said, please include the full statement ...

God never hid the gospel

satan is the one wants the gospel hid

When you insist that the gospel is hid to the unregenerate so they cannot believe ... you're claiming that the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation is not powerful enough to thwart satan ... which is beyond ridiculous ...
.

 

[Genez]

Let us add to that list that some claim spiritual revelation is not necessary... which again contradicts the
very words of Jesus Christ Himself. Revelation is necessary in order to know Who Jesus Christ is. Knowing
Him, Who He is, is the essence of possessing eternal life. If you do not possess that, you are lost..

To repeat what your picture stated:


Matthew 16:15-17

“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed
to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven."

OK... God's does have a drawing of men. A drawing that is not one shot, but enters into stages of drawing.
For example.
The 'earliest phase' is revealed in Romans 1:18-22.

Some will rebel while being drawn and choose to jump out of that drawing at that point.

Romans 1:18-22​

​

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, ​

who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, ​

because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities​

—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been ​

made, so that people are without excuse.​

​

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools.​

In Romans 1:18-22, we see men who were being drawn by God, and even got to the point of knowing God was real!

But, even so?

Only to produce lies as to suppress the Truth God had worked into them.

What I am showing you reveals why men will be held accountable for their unbelief!
For God will show them how He was drawing them, and how they chose to reject the Truth
that God had made them to acknowledge as real.

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools.​

​

Calvinism quit too soon in developing its thesis.
Then dogmatically hunkered down to resist anyone able to see,
how what they accepted is contrary to the character and nature of God.

Arminianism just made stuff up in an attempt to resolve the confliction.

​

.​

​

 

[Magenta]

John 6:47 KJV — Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

This is what really the pattern and so simple just as Paul did. Paul says follow me as I follow Christ. In essense, one is to
believe on Christ to have everlating life. Faith before regeneration and not the otherway around as Calvies is saying of regeneration in order to have faith.

How was Paul enabled to follow Christ? He started out as a Christ-follower hater. That is who he was, no getting
around that. He was committed to his path. Did God intervene, or did He not? Did God blind Paul, and then remove
the scales from his eyes? Will you say God forced Paul to believe? That is what free willers automatically jump to
when enabling is mentioned. I showed you were it says man cannot submit. You denied what Scripture plainly says!

 

[sawdust]

Agree that the heart becomes more and more hardened as the truth is suppressed. This truth is clearly laid out in Romans 1:18-32.

If and when the gospel of Christ is presented to the natural man, he or she can either believe the gospel and receive the blessing ... or he or she can suppress the truth in unrighteousness and receive the consequence of having suppressed.


Agree that God has provided all that in necessary that "in spite of our "natural" condition, we can hear and see Him" ... but according to some who have posted in this thread, God just couldn't figure out a way to get through to the natural man ... what God has to do is cause the natural man to be born again in order that he or she can believe the gospel by which he or she is born again ... how many times must a person be born again before he or she is really, really, really, truly, scout's honor born again ???

Romans 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
.

No matter how many times you tell them, they just don't get their doctrine has them saved before they hear the Gospel and believe.

It's a crazy world!

 

[Shepherd]

Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
Proverbs 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.

I take that to mean that we decide what action or path to take. But the Lord controls the circumstances surrounding and consequences of our actions.

 

[Magenta]

From Romans 7 verses 18-19 Journey from Inability to Ability I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out... I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. Praise be to God for circumcising my sinful nature, causing me to obey by putting His Holy Spirit in me, and giving me a new heart.

 

[Magenta]

Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
Proverbs 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.

I take that to mean that we decide what action or path to take. But the Lord
controls the circumstances surrounding and consequences of our actions.

I am pretty sure FWers detest such verses. Especially those who claim God acting unilaterally
would make Him an unjust tyrannical monster kidnapping people against their free will.

Proverbs 19 verse 21 Jeremiah 10 verse 23b ~ Many plans are in a man’s heart, but the purpose of the LORD will prevail. No one who walks directs his own steps.

 

[Genez]

When I gave you the opportunity to explain in detail, your bowed out very quickly.

It seems as if he has a terrible bladder problem.

 

[Genez]

Knowing there is knowing from experience. Did Adam know it was wrong to eat the forbidden fruit? Did he know it was right not to partake? If so, empirically he knew right from wrong...good and evil.

Stop being evil.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

No matter how many times you tell them, they just don't get their doctrine has them saved before they hear the Gospel and believe.

It's a crazy world!

someone keeps insisting that verses of Scripture they post are being ignored ... however, when great detail explaining the Scriptural meaning of verses being ripped from context within which the verses are set by the Author of Scripture ... crickets ... then a couple hours or days later, the same old, same old is regurgitated ... with no scintilla of a response to the explanation of the context ... also with no end to the anonymous accusations within walls of indictment.

on the bright side ... there is a discussion going on which is very enlightening once you get through the distractions ...
.

 

[sawdust]

From Romans 7 verses 18-19 Journey from Inability to Ability I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out... I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. Praise be to God for circumcising my sinful nature, causing me to obey by putting His Holy Spirit in me, and giving me a new heart.

Ah yes, We have ways of making you love me.

"You made me love you, I didn't want to do it, I didn't want to do it"

John 14:23
Jesus replied, ‘Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Sorry Jesus, can't be anyone, only those you have chosen can love you.

Strange how your God can throw boulders (raise a man to life) but can't pick up pebbles (show a man the truth and free his will a moment for a genuine response from within himself).

Maybe this is why His followers are good at throwing rocks.

 

[Genez]

Show me such a scripture. God is under no obligation to give anyone the opportunity for salvation. Otherwise, He's not sovereign. Pretty sure sovereignty is an attribute of God that governs His nature.

Modern translation:

But of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Cameron, thou shalt not eat of it: ​

for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die laughing..​

​

​

​

 

[sawdust]

It seems as if he has a terrible bladder problem.

If only that was the problem.

 

[Magenta]

Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
Proverbs 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.

I take that to mean that we decide what action or path to take. But the Lord
controls the circumstances surrounding and consequences of our actions.

Someone said recently that God only chooses to save those who want Him.

God is not going to save anyone he knows does not want Him. <= that is what was said.

Being born after Adam... given everything that is said of the unregenerated person, none are righteous, all are sinners, slaves to sin, walking in darkness refusing to come into the light, actually defined as darkness itself, children of wrath, sons of disobedience, hostile in their minds toward God, opposed to the spiritual things of God... on and on, so many verses attest to the fact that man does not start out wanting God. God draws us with loving kindness to engender repentance in us. But mention being enabled to a free will promoter and their knee jerk reaction is to claim God is forcing people. They seem incapable of grasping the middle ground.

 

[Genez]

You overcomplicate things, and think lowly of people. It's not that hard to give a short answer. To suggest that a subject can't be understood without years of study is simply false. One needs only to have their understanding opened. Not that the Christian doesn't already have years of study.

That "particular" study.
Not, all.

 

[Genez]

Someone said recently that God only chooses to save those who want Him.

Chooses to save those whom He knows will want Him.

There is a difference.

 

[cv5]

"Choose for yourselves" to deny the choosing so noted here @Rufus @Magenta
And remember......God is weighing your free will choice to deny His Word in this matter of choosing on His scales of judgement.
In this of course you have no choice.

[Jos 24:15 NKJV]
"And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose H977 for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

[Deu 30:19 KJV]
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose H977 life, that both thou and thy seed may live:


The KJV translates Strong's H977 in the following manner: choose (77x), chosen (77x), choice (6x), choose...out (5x), acceptable (1x), appoint (1x), excellent (1x), chosen men (1x), rather (1x), require

Outline of Biblical Usage

1. to choose, elect, decide for
   1. (Qal) to choose
   2. (Niphal) to be chosen
   3. (Pual) to be chosen, selected

 

[Kroogz]

No matter how many times you tell them, they just don't get their doctrine has them saved before they hear the Gospel and believe.

They tell us that(saved BEFORE the Gospel is believed) over and over and over and over and over.

And the natural man can't even begin to comprehend anything of God. Total darkness.Total inability. Totally under the control of the supreme being.......Satan.

Calvinism/reformed theology is flawed to its CORE.

 

[GWH]

John 15 verse 5c; Philippians 2 verse 13 ~ Apart from Me you can do nothing. For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.

But if you invite me into your heart, with God all things are possible. (Rev. 3:20)
Then after you believe, God's Holy Spirit enables you to do good works. (Eph. 2:8-10)