The indwelling of the Holy Ghost was the baptism that I was baptized with - it was spiritual baptism and the only one of eternal spiritual significance.
The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation
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The indwelling of the Holy Ghost was the baptism that I was baptized with - it was spiritual baptism and the only one of eternal spiritual significance.
Well, the first time God forced whoever to go to their land, many did not make it per Heb. 3:7-19,
so is that why you hope God exerts even more force next time to make folks go to heaven?
Or does Eze. 36:24 refer to another event?
No, you received the HS when you believed, and then the HS produces perseverance as you continue to believe.
God initiates; sinners cooperate--or not. (Eph 2:8-10)
Nope, not possible - natural man does not have the spiritual discernment to truly believe- the Holy Spirit first has to be present to bring that about. The faith of Eph 2:8 is Christ's faith, not man's. Salvation is fully a gift from God. Read about the attributes of the New Covenant in scripture - it is all accomplished by God, none of it by man.
@GWH
That should have been stated as "He gives spiritual hearts, minds, and faith, to those He saves".
That should have been stated as "He gives spiritual hearts, minds, and faith, to those He saves".
Scripture supporting your belief that the HS is only given to a few special souls so that they will believe against their natural will and be saved?
So why did JESUS tell HIS disciples to wait and not go out before it comes to them?
They didn't beleive?
Your saying you got Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues and your back up verse proving that is Gal 5:22?
If they must perceive correctly, that is synonymous with being forced to perceive correctly!
I didn't say "a few". It is a multitude no man can number. Here are a few verses of those verses. There are more but these come to mind right now.
[Phl 1:29 KJV] 29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
[Jhn 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
I don't understand your post. Speaking in tongues has nothing to do with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
The indwelling of the Holy Spirit occurs when one is saved, and which results in their spiritual rebirth.
Sorry, I misunderstood your request for scripture. I think I have it here. Through the Holy Spirit, their natural will comes into conformity with God's will, then becoming their will. If this doesn't answer it, let me know.
[1Co 2:9,10, 12-14 KJV]
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. ...
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
These too:
[Jhn 14:17 KJV] 17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
[Rom 8:11 KJV] 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
[1Co 3:16 KJV] 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
[2Ti 1:14 KJV] 14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
It is interesting to me that when the Judaisers were insisting that Gentile believers needed to be circumcised and keep Moses' law, Paul went and debated out the issue with the other apostles (Acts 15). There was no such objection from Paul to requiring baptism in Jesus name for a convert to be received into the church as a genuine believer, where Paul insisted water baptism was not necessary..
I would suggest that the New Covenant was cut, i.e. began when Jesus, as the first human Christian church member, received from His Father on Resurrection Sunday morning, approval for His sacrifice of Himself, and was given back His glory as per Zec. 3 and John 20:17.
Jhn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Zec 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
5 And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the Lord stood by.
6 And the angel of the Lord protested unto Joshua, saying,
7 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.
And I would suggest that the Holy Spirit was given to the Ten (the Eleven minus Thomas) and those with them on Resurrection Sunday evening when Jesus breathed on them and said "Receive the Holy Spirit, after they had believed in His death and resurrection, and confessed Him as Lord."
Jhn 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost."
Luk 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
I completely agree with the first three Scriptures that have no commentary, and regarding Gal. 5:22 I already commented
on your commentary in post #863 (I received the Holy Spirit before I believed - He came first and from Him I believed)
by saying "No, you received the HS when you believed, and then the HS produces perseverance as you continue to believe.
God initiates; sinners cooperate--or not. (Eph 2:8-10)".
Now let us move the discussion forward from this point by you commenting on my commentary re Eph. 2:8-10,
so that we don't go around in circles or play ping-pong. Thanks.
Not sure that I stated it clearly in my post. The point I intended to make was that my faith was given to me as a gift from the Holy Spirit
it being one of His fruits. I did not mean to imply that the two - receiving the Holy Spirit and the acquiring of faith - coincidentally happened together, if that is how it sounded - that is, my faith was strictly the result of, and from, the Holy Spirit indwelling me.
If I understand your question correctly, all I can say about Eph 2:8 - 10, is that which I have already said, which is, if salvation is the gift of God as we are told that it is, then everything associated to salvation must also be part of the gift. Should we have to produce any part of it, then salvation simply cannot be a gift - it's either is all a gift, or none of it is a gift.
Look at the first word of 2:8. It is "For". By "For", is meant that that verse is a continuation of the thoughts raised in prior verses, the sum of which, is to illuminate a spiritual doctrine. When we look at 2:8 in relation to those prior verses, the "faith" mentioned in 2:8 simply cannot represent the faith of a man, if it did, it would completely contradict and invalidate the prior verses as written. Because of the "for" in 2:8, we should not perceive 2:8 as a standalone verse to be evaluated on its own, but instead, as a part of a whole.
If memory serves me, verses 9, 10 to the end, are also continuations of that whole.
Yes, salvation is a gift.
Now, when a gift is offered, what is necessary?
When you offer your child a present, does it end there?
Do you offer only one of your children a Christmas present?
Over...
There is nothing necessary nor even possible that one can do to receive the gift - in its fullness, it is given freely to those chosen for it, by the exceeding mercy and grace of God through Jesus Christ the Savior - no one deserves it. As long as we believe we must contribute in some way to receiving it, by that, we demonstrate that do not yet have it, instead, if we are able to do so (as only those saved can do so), we are to fully trust and rest in that which Christ had achieved, it being fully sufficient in itself for salvation, not seeking to add anything to it. Now, after receiving it, it is an entirely different matter. Much is expected/demanded by God from those saved. They are to live in a Christ and God glorifying manner, sharing the true gospel of Christ with everyone at every possible opportunity, for no one knows beforehand who is of the elect and who isn't. The requirements imposed by God after salvation are far greater than those imposed for salvation which are no requirements whatsoever.
In a spiritual sense, being a child of God is strictly limited to those whom He elected unto salvation and has saved. In that sense, the gift is exactly the same between all. Those whom God did not elect, will never become saved, are not His spiritual children, nor will/can they ever be made so. They can never, ever receive the gift.