Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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That begs the question of whose job is it to prepare the heart? The parable of the sower, talks about heart being the soil in Luke's account of it. So is it God that makes the heart (soil) good? If it is God, then God should do it for everyone since God wants everyone to be saved 1 Timothy 2:4

Is there any Bible verses on that? Only thing I could find was this:

Proverbs 16:1
The preparations of the heart belong to man, But the answer of the tongue is from the LORD.

Which seems to have a kind of synergy at play.
What do you do with verses like, it is God working in you to will and to act according to/on behalf of His good purpose/pleasure? He will finish the work He began in you? You can do nothing aside from Him? He draws us with loving kindness to work repentance in us? Do you not see His lovingkindness as a preparation of our hearts? Do you think man circumcises his own heart? Scripture says, ah, specifically articulates that it is a work of the Holy Spirit of God. We have many here who believe that their incurably wicked hearts brought forth the good fruit of faith. I just don't see that being supported in Scripture at all. In fact it contradicts what Scripture explicitly states, in the words of Jesus Christ no less. A bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. And there are none good to begin with. Gosh. This is reiterated throughout the good book from beginning to end in a number of places and ways.

Philippians3-3-Colossians2-11-Romans2-29b.png

Philippians 3 verse 3; Colossians 2 verse 11; Romans 2 verse 29b ~ For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh. You were also circumcised, in the putting off of your sinful nature, with the circumcision performed by Christ and not by human hands. Circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.
 
Then Paul lied.

If Paul lied why are you promoting a doctrine you have created by Paul's Letters?
st.paul didnt lie. in romans 1 st.paul makes the case that it is evident there is a creator because there is a creation. nothing there about a supernatural encounter such as st.paul himself had.
 
st.paul didnt lie. in romans 1 st.paul makes the case that it is evident there is a creator because there is a creation. nothing there about a supernatural encounter such as st.paul himself had.
I never said Supernatural. I said what Paul said.
 
I saw someone bring up the wayside seed parable. I mentioned it once on another thread I think.

The hard liners here say there is only the elect or the not elect. That covers seed 1 and seed 4. How about the middle two seeds. The Bible states they rejoiced in the word and grew in the word. How be it for a short time before the root died and the cares of the world chocked them out.

So obviously the middle two seeds are not of the elect. They eventually die in thier unbelief. So how then did those two examples of the non elect rejoice in the word and even grow in the word if it is all nonsense to them? According to some in here it is simply impossible for a non chosen to even comprend or rejoice in the word.
 
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I saw someone bring up the wayside seed parable. I mentioned it once on another thread I think.

The hard liners here say there is only the elect or the not elect. That covers seed 1 and seed 4. How about the middle two seeds. The Bible states they rejoiced in the word and grew in the word. How be it for a short time before the root died and the cares of the world chocked them out.

So obviously the middle two seeds are not of the elect. They eventually die in thier unbelief. So how then did those two examples of the non elect rejoice in the word and even grow in the word if it is all nonsense to them? According to some in here it is simply impossible for a non chosen to even comprend or rejoice in the word.
You should never present common sense truths to a doctrine that creates cultic persistent. To be forced to face truth and fact is like ripping the flesh off.
 
What do you do with verses like, it is God working in you to will and to act according to/on behalf of His good purpose/pleasure? He will finish the work He began in you? You can do nothing aside from Him? He draws us with loving kindness to work repentance in us? Do you not see His lovingkindness as a preparation of our hearts? Do you think man circumcises his own heart? Scripture says, ah, specifically articulates that it is a work of the Holy Spirit of God. We have many here who believe that their incurably wicked hearts brought forth the good fruit of faith. I just don't see that being supported in Scripture at all. In fact it contradicts what Scripture explicitly states, in the words of Jesus Christ no less. A bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. And there are none good to begin with. Gosh. This is reiterated throughout the good book from beginning to end in a number of places and ways.
Philippians 3 verse 3; Colossians 2 verse 11; Romans 2 verse 29b ~ For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh. You were also circumcised, in the putting off of your sinful nature, with the circumcision performed by Christ and not by human hands. Circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.
If you look at the commonly quoted verse, Romans 3:10. Its a quotation from a psalm that says there is none that does good. Its talking about atheists and other wicked men, but the same psalm also talks about righteous people. So not everyone is under that umbrella, thats the UNBELIEVERS, not the saints!

God tells people to "circumcise your hearts" in the OT but God also promises to do it Himself later on. So once again we see the synergy in play.

James 4:8
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Clearly we have some responsibility in that as well, if it was all God we wouldnt be in the mess we are in. There wouldnt be a state of emergency in the churches if it was God in charge of our repentance.

I know all the verses, they have been posted many times, but did you know there are also OTHER verses in the Bible. Let me ask the questions this time, how would you see these types of verses:

Luke 1:6
Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly. [Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous and obeyed blameless.]

Acts 10:2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. [Cornelius was a righteous gentile and God heard his prayers. The reason Peter was sent to Cornelius was precisely this]

Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. [Same deal, those who work righteousness are accepted by the Lord.]

Ezekiel 14:14
even if these three men—Noah, Daniel and Job—were in it, they could save only themselves by their righteousness, declares the Sovereign LORD.

Ezekiel 22:30
“I looked for someone among them who would build up the wall and stand before me in the gap on behalf of the land so I would not have to destroy it, but I found no one. [Completely refutes calvinism and monergism as a system. God could of just given the gift of faith and repentance to someone and there would have been a man to stand on the gap.]

So as you can see, its not as one sided as you make it sound. We can both paste long walls of Scripture. The Bible clearly teaches both predestination and free will. Both depravity and righteousness.

We gotta be dilligent to harmonize these Scriptures in the best possible way.
 
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i know you believe you are saved by grace. you are just inconsistent in your beliefs. you will pray for God to save someone, but you should be praying to people, not God. God cant do anything about it remember, it has to be people's free will decision to believe the gospel.

this idea doesnt work anywhere else in this life either. i cannot believe the sky is green no matter how much i try. i just cannot believe it. you dont believe the things you dont believe.
This is an excellent point concerning prayer. What exactly is one praying for concerning the lost. Do they ask God to intervene in their lives? Unilaterally?
 
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its grace alone through faith
for it is by grace I have been saved ( a completed action) through faith/

God does not force you to receive him..
Acts 9:3

Did Saul repent and turn to Christ, or was he slapped in the face and drawn to God?
It was all God's work, no boasting allowed!
 
This is an excellent point concerning prayer. What exactly is one praying for concerning the lost. Do they ask God to intervene in their lives? Unilaterally?
Its not as good as you think. This same smarty pants argument can be used against the calvinist:

Why pray to God for someones salvation? Its already been predetermined before the foundation of the world, you praying for it wont make a difference anyway.
 
My bad you said cult like. Differnt derogatory remark that is just a slightly differnt means to the same end.
Probably should have said pharisee like. But honestly every viewpoint can be taken to the utmost extreme.
 
Acts 9:3

Did Saul repent and turn to Christ, or was he slapped in the face and drawn to God?
It was all God's work, no boasting allowed!
Lol, if you suddenly went blind wouldn't you do whatever to see again?
 
Acts 9:3

Did Saul repent and turn to Christ, or was he slapped in the face and drawn to God?
It was all God's work, no boasting allowed!
True. It was a rare moment. But did Paul think it was one and done? Nah he still said he must persevere in the faith, and he must be careful lest he be disqualified himself after preaching to others.

He never put himself above others and included himself in the warnings sent to the churches. He calls the people in these churches 'called' and 'chosen' yet warns them their faith will be of no use if it doesnt last.

Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Why present a condition of IF ye continue, if its all God? There is so clearly synergy at play here. I havent figured out the best possible way to explain all the verses involved, but since both are in the Bible, both must be true.

Its like Philippians 2:12-13
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. [You do it]
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. [God does it]

Thats synergy right there, between God and man.
 
Acts 9:3

Did Saul repent and turn to Christ, or was he slapped in the face and drawn to God?
It was all God's work, no boasting allowed!
could paul have still said no thank you God?

Your right it is all of God.. But we can still remain in unbelief.

God did not force paul to do anything.
 
If you look at the commonly quoted verse, Romans 3:10. Its a quotation from a psalm that says there is none that does good. Its talking about atheists and other wicked men, but the same psalm also talks about righteous people. So not everyone is under that umbrella, thats the UNBELIEVERS, not the saints!

God tells people to "circumcise your hearts" in the OT but God also promises to do it Himself later on. So once again we see the synergy in play.

James 4:8
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Clearly we have some responsibility in that as well, if it was all God we wouldnt be in the mess we are in. There wouldnt be a state of emergency in the churches if it was God in charge of our repentance.

I know all the verses, they have been posted many times, but did you know there are also OTHER verses in the Bible. Let me ask the questions this time, how would you see these types of verses:

Luke 1:6
Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly. [Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous and obeyed blameless.]

Acts 10:2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. [Cornelius was a righteous gentile and God heard his prayers. The reason Peter was sent to Cornelius was precisely this]

Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. [Same deal, those who work righteousness are accepted by the Lord.]

Ezekiel 14:14
even if these three men—Noah, Daniel and Job—were in it, they could save only themselves by their righteousness, declares the Sovereign LORD.

Ezekiel 22:30
“I looked for someone among them who would build up the wall and stand before me in the gap on behalf of the land so I would not have to destroy it, but I found no one. [Completely refutes calvinism and monergism as a system. God could of just given the gift of faith and repentance to someone and there would have been a man to stand on the gap.]

So as you can see, its not as one sided as you make it sound. We can both paste long walls of Scripture. The Bible clearly teaches both predestination and free will. Both depravity and righteousness.

We gotta be dilligent to harmonize these Scriptures in the best possible way.
Okay you speak of harmonizing after right off the bat confusing what Scripture says. Unbelievers used to be children of wrath, hostile in their minds to God, suppressing the truth in unrighteousness. They were not good. Jesus said there were none good and now you deny this also. What is the point of talking to you? You deny the very words of Jesus Christ Himself. I did not post a long wall of Scripture but you did. Gosh. You are like the rest. David was considered righteous after adultery and murder. It seems you don't know why.
 
Why pray to God for someones salvation? Its already been predetermined before the foundation of the world, you praying for it wont make a difference anyway.
We are not given to know the state of man's heart, thus we should pray for them.