The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation

[GWH]

Sadly, it seems an impossibly large step for most of us to love Him back, however (which just goes to show how bad we really are )! In fact, had He not stepped in to stop it/stop us (by saving a remnant from among those walking on the road to perdition) ALL would have been lost/NONE would have been saved, whether they be Jew or Greek .. e.g. Romans 3:9-12.


Romans 1
20 Since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

While we are without excuse for not believing that God exists, the 'condemnation' of those who remain outside of Christ is still based on three other things, 1. their knowledge and 2. their understanding of the Law (even if the only "law" that they know and understand is the basic one that is written on their hearts from birth .. e.g. Romans 2:12-16), as well then 3. what they choose to do in this life with the knowledge and understanding that they possess.


Did you mean to say, "a lot of good guilt would do if it COULD motivate seeking God's forgiveness"?

You know, that's what the Law actually does for us, yes? It motivates us (like a harsh schoolmaster .. Galatians 3:24) by telling us 1. what God wants and expects from us, and then by 2. showing us how badly we've missed the mark that He's set for us

~Deuteronomy

Yes, and it also seems impossible for many to conceive of an all-loving God, but with God all things are possible.

Re Rom. 1:20, you need to focus on God's moral nature as well as His omnipotent existence,
and it is because humans are created in God's moral image that they experience guilt when they behave immorally.

Re guilt, a more complete statement I mean is this: Unfortunately, some saints may not appreciate the process of spiritual growth or being transformed by the renewing of their minds (Rom. 12:2), perhaps because it involves admitting sins or having “guilt trips”. Guilt is like a warning light, and until we gain the wisdom to welcome God’s reproof, we will not feel the satisfaction of becoming a new and improved version of ourselves. Woe to the one who become so callous that no guilt is felt when wrong is done (Matt. 13:14-15).

And yes, guilt should occur when one disobeys God/GW/His moral Law, and God intends for it to motivate repentance,
confession and seeking His forgiveness in Christ.

 

[GWH]

Sadly, it seems an impossibly large step for most of us to love Him back, however (which just goes to show how bad we really are )! In fact, had He not stepped in to stop it/stop us (by saving a remnant from among those walking on the road to perdition) ALL would have been lost/NONE would have been saved, whether they be Jew or Greek .. e.g. Romans 3:9-12.


Romans 1
20 Since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

While we are without excuse for not believing that God exists, the 'condemnation' of those who remain outside of Christ is still based on three other things, 1. their knowledge and 2. their understanding of the Law (even if the only "law" that they know and understand is the basic one that is written on their hearts from birth .. e.g. Romans 2:12-16), as well then 3. what they choose to do in this life with the knowledge and understanding that they possess.


Did you mean to say, "a lot of good guilt would do if it COULD motivate seeking God's forgiveness"?

You know, that's what the Law actually does for us, yes? It motivates us (like a harsh schoolmaster .. Galatians 3:24) by telling us 1. what God wants and expects from us, and then by 2. showing us how badly we've missed the mark that He's set for us

~Deuteronomy

Yes, and it also seems impossible for many to conceive of an all-loving God, but with God all things are possible.

Re Rom. 1:20, you need to focus on God's moral nature as well as His omnipotent existence,
and it is because humans are created in God's moral image that they experience guilt when they behave immorally.

Re guilt, a more complete statement I mean is this: Unfortunately, some saints may not appreciate the process of spiritual growth or being transformed by the renewing of their minds (Rom. 12:2), perhaps because it involves admitting sins or having “guilt trips”. Guilt is like a warning light, and until we gain the wisdom to welcome God’s reproof, we will not feel the satisfaction of becoming a new and improved version of ourselves. Woe to the one who become so callous that no guilt is felt when wrong is done (Matt. 13:14-15).

And yes, guilt should occur when one disobeys God/GW/His moral Law, and God intends for it to motivate repentance,
confession and seeking His forgiveness in Christ.

 

[GWH]

Thank you for the bible lesson, ALL of HIS word is good.

How about keeping it simple, WHAT DO WE HAVE TO DO TO BE REBORN?

You see so many people know HIS word, but JESUS DON'T KNOW THEM.

Matthew 7:21-23
King James Version
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

AFTER JESUS throws them in HELL, then he speaks of FOUDATION.

So my question to you is what is the FOUNDATION of being born again.

IT IS A LIFE AND DEATH MATTER as you can see by SO many that THOUGHT they were OK WITH JESUS and HE NEVER KNEW THEM.

Paul made GRFS simple for the Philippian jailer, saying "Believe in Jesus as Lord".
Such faith is how one is reborn/the foundation (or fulcrum) of being born again,
and those who are reborn/accept Jesus as Lord can be recognized by their love (John 13:35).

Yes, it is a heaven or hell matter.

 

[GWH]

So for get all about the book of Acts the FOUNDATION of the building of the church.

Just faith alone.

OK show me a verse where faith alone get rid of our sins.

After that we can move on the the Holy Ghost.

Can't enter Heaven with sin right?

I will show you a plethora of verses teaching that we are saved by faith before works: Romans 3:21-5:11 & Eph. 2:8-10.

 

[GWH]

If you have the HOLY GHOST?

I ask you as Paul asked, have YOU received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?
How were YOU baptized?


Acts 19

19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

You cannot divorce GW & the HS, because teaching GW (especially re love) is what the HS does (John 13:35, 16:13).

I am both WB & SB. (both-and :^)

 

[GWH]

There are, that is why it is so important to keep opinions out of it and JUST FOLLOW HIS WORD.

IYO.

 

[wattie]

No idea where this stuff comes from?

John 3 IS NOT SPEAKING OF NATURAL BIRTH, that is when we GOT ALL OF OUR SINS.

JESUS was speaking to Nicodemus was HE ALL READY BORN???

If we were not born how could we get REBORN??

How could we read HIS WORD?

If not born naturaly how could you REPENT?

JESUS explains.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

So hopefull that his put to rest?

There is no other way to look at it, now your getting in to mens oppion and LEVEING HIS WORD OUT OF IT.

After the book of Acts are letter to churchs NOT THE UNSAVED.

WHAT???
"So then the passage itself is about being baptised 'because of already having' remission of sins."
HOW DID THAT HAPPEN, BACK THAT UP WITH HIS WORD!!

The rest of you statement is crazy.

Tell me what do you think we have to do to be reborn?

Are we still born in sin?

HOW DO WE GET RID OF IT?

Be great if you could just use HIS WORDS not your own.

Knowing you are a sinner and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.. that He lived, died and rose again. That by believing in Him, you have forgiveness of sin, eternal life.

John 3:16, 5:24, 6:40, 8:40. 10:28

Romans 5:8

Not water baptism

 

[Ouch]

Paul made GRFS simple for the Philippian jailer, saying "Believe in Jesus as Lord".
Such faith is how one is reborn/the foundation (or fulcrum) of being born again,
and those who are reborn/accept Jesus as Lord can be recognized by their love (John 13:35).

Yes, it is a heaven or hell matter.

So I asked you "what is the FOUNDATION of being born again"

And this is what you give me saying Paul made it simple.

Acts 16

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

So do you agree being bapitzed is a part of being reborn?

For somereason you added this.

John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Are you saying I'm not showing love? Or are you saying I'm not a disciple because I am showing you scripture?

 

[Ouch]

You cannot divorce GW & the HS, because teaching GW (especially re love) is what the HS does (John 13:35, 16:13).

I am both WB & SB. (both-and :^)

Have you been baptized in JESUS name?

I have had a lot of people tell me they have been filled, so many think as soon as you beleive you get the Holy Ghost but of courese can't back it up with scripture.

Did this happen?

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

 

[Ouch]

I will show you a plethora of verses teaching that we are saved by faith before works: Romans 3:21-5:11 & Eph. 2:8-10.

Sorry, that is not correct.

Those are letters to churchs you will not find ONE PLACE after the book of Acts that tells us how to be reborn.

You are taking HIS word out of context.

WHY DON'T YOU LIKE THE BOOK OF ACTS YOU TOTALLY IGNORE IT.

 

[Ouch]

Knowing you are a sinner and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.. that He lived, died and rose again. That by believing in Him, you have forgiveness of sin, eternal life.

John 3:16, 5:24, 6:40, 8:40. 10:28

Romans 5:8

Not water baptism

Are these verse real clear of how we get rid of our sins?

Acts 2:38-39

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

What do you think of them?

 

[GWH]

So I asked you "what is the FOUNDATION of being born again"

And this is what you give me saying Paul made it simple.

Acts 16

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

So do you agree being bapitzed is a part of being reborn?

For somereason you added this.

John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Are you saying I'm not showing love? Or are you saying I'm not a disciple because I am showing you scripture?

Even making GRFS simple is difficult for you?
I agree that SB = being reborn, and that WB in Jesus' name followed SB in Acts and is a good work even today (which I did).
For some reason Jesus added Scripture/John 13:35 teaching love as the sign of SB, which I shared with you.

 

[GWH]

Sorry, that is not correct.

Those are letters to churchs you will not find ONE PLACE after the book of Acts that tells us how to be reborn.

You are taking HIS word out of context.

WHY DON'T YOU LIKE THE BOOK OF ACTS YOU TOTALLY IGNORE IT.

!!! I interpret Acts in light of the instructions in the epistles about how to be reborn for the reasons I shared,
whereas you ignore them or at least give Acts primacy, viewing historical passages containing vestiges of OT practice
as doctrinal and not updated by the NT, which is problematic.

 

[rogerg]

Cause/God initiates; effect/(elect) sinners cooperate--or (nonelect sinners) do not.

Re Rom. 1:20: "without excuse" means for not cooperating with God/GW/the HS morally/spiritually.

Re Rom 2:9-16 & thru Rom. 11: God enables all to be saved, but they may be unwilling (Matt. 23:37).

Rom. 2:4: Exactly, but God's leading may be resisted.

Phil. 2:13: When sinners repent and invite Jesus into their hearts, God's HS leads them toward moral perfection.

Col. 2:17 & Heb. 10:1: Yes, the OT foreshadowed the Gospel of Christ. Glad we agree on that.

You haven't responded yet to any of the verses I've posted that refute your beliefs regarding salvation.
Before I expend further effort, for starters, why don't you explain/refute these individually:

[Tit 3:5 KJV] 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

[1Co 2:13-14 KJV]
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

[Rom 5:15 KJV] 15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

[Eph 2:4-5 KJV]
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

[Eph 2:8 KJV] 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

[1Pe 5:10 KJV] 10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle [you].

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

[2Pe 1:1 KJV] 1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

[1Pe 1:3 KJV] 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

 

[Cameron143]

Sure is, but what is 1 Corinthians chapter talking about? We would not want to take ONE verse out and make it sound like it means something and that it doesn't.

1 Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

Yep, after we have been filled with the Holy Ghost like in Acts 2:4 Paul is speaking about the DIFFERENT ADMINISTRATIONS OF IT. ONE SPIRIT, MANY DIFFERENT GIFTS.

Have YOU received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?

HOW were YOUR baptized?

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

The Spirit falling on someone is an outward manifestation of the Spirit. That is not what is being spoken of in 1 Corinthians 12:13. It is what is spoken of in Ephesians 1:13.

 

[Ouch]

The Spirit falling on someone is an outward manifestation of the Spirit. That is not what is being spoken of in 1 Corinthians 12:13. It is what is spoken of in Ephesians 1:13.

There is only one spirit, how we know we got it we will speak in tongues.

Peter explains that.
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

More conformation.
Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Along with that comes different gifts and it's JESUS who decides who gets what.

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[Cameron143]

There is only one spirit, how we know we got it we will speak in tongues.

Peter explains that.
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

More conformation.
Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Along with that comes different gifts and it's JESUS who decides who gets what.

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

So, if a person has never spoken in tongues they are not saved?

 

[wattie]

Are these verse real clear of how we get rid of our sins?

Acts 2:38-39

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

What do you think of them?

Both cases, you compare with John 3, 5, 8, Romans 10, Ephesians 2 etc..

It doesn't contradict them.

I've already covered Acts 2:38-39

Acts 22:16-- context..

KJB
(Act 22:12) And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
(Act 22:13) Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
(Act 22:14) And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
(Act 22:15) For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
(Act 22:16) And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

From Is baptism necessary for salvation according to Acts 22:16? - Compelling Truth:

In the early church, it was unheard of for a believer to not be baptized (see Acts 8:36, 38). Like other believers at that time, Paul was baptized shortly after being saved. While Acts 22:16 sounds as if he was saved because he was baptized, there are a couple key arguments against that understanding. First, that same verse connects the washing of his sins to “calling on Jesus’ name” (Acts 22:16b). That is, the expression of his faith was the key part to his salvation and not the baptism. Second, in the historical account in Acts 9, we see him acting like, and being called, a believer before the Baptism. See, in particular, Acts 9:11 as well as how Ananias refers to him as a brother in Acts 9:17. Finally, the rest of the New Testament, a large portion of which was written by Paul, teaches that salvation is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8–9).

 

[Ouch]

So, if a person has never spoken in tongues they are not saved?

Not my call, I can only share HIS word. I didn't die for you and had nothing to do with HIS WORD.

The question your asking is if a person is not filled with the spirit are they saved?

It's JESUS who fills us the first example for us to follow was when HE filled HIS discples in Acts 2:4.

So if a person has not been filled is that person a JESUS disciple?

What does JESUS say?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[Ouch]

Both cases, you compare with John 3, 5, 8, Romans 10, Ephesians 2 etc..

It doesn't contradict them.

I've already covered Acts 2:38-39

Acts 22:16-- context..

KJB
(Act 22:12) And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
(Act 22:13) Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
(Act 22:14) And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
(Act 22:15) For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
(Act 22:16) And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

From Is baptism necessary for salvation according to Acts 22:16? - Compelling Truth:

In the early church, it was unheard of for a believer to not be baptized (see Acts 8:36, 38). Like other believers at that time, Paul was baptized shortly after being saved. While Acts 22:16 sounds as if he was saved because he was baptized, there are a couple key arguments against that understanding. First, that same verse connects the washing of his sins to “calling on Jesus’ name” (Acts 22:16b). That is, the expression of his faith was the key part to his salvation and not the baptism. Second, in the historical account in Acts 9, we see him acting like, and being called, a believer before the Baptism. See, in particular, Acts 9:11 as well as how Ananias refers to him as a brother in Acts 9:17. Finally, the rest of the New Testament, a large portion of which was written by Paul, teaches that salvation is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8–9).

Who is this from? "From Is baptism necessary for salvation according to Acts 22:16? - Compelling Truth:"

who website is Compelling Truth?

Compelling Truth is a network site of Got Questions Ministries.

got questions ministries founder?

The founder of Got Questions Ministries is S. Michael Houdmann, also known as Shea Houdmann. He co-founded the ministry with his wife, MeLissa, and serves as its President, CEO, and the primary content provider for the website, GotQuestions.org.

So you go ahead and follow Michael Houdmann which is no different then anyone man who goes AGAINST HIS WORD.

His word is clear the words say get baptized for remission of sins in Acts 2:38 and be baptized and wash away they sin in Acts 22:16.

People can claim it says something different BUT DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT IT SAYS WHAT IS SAYS.

So Michael Houdmann that is wrong, it's impossible to be saved with you sins so it's impossible to be saved BEFORE BEING BAPTIZED IN JESUS NAME.

Since you believe him and you share Michael Houdmann words and not what JESUS says your just as guilty as he is for the untruth. NOT GOOD.