And when/why does the HS "place an individual into the body of Christ per Scripture?
The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation
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And when/why does the HS "place an individual into the body of Christ per Scripture?
The stewards and the master are obvious in the parable of the talents, imo, so that no one can say "I wasn't given any faith." But it occurred to me that, in the parable of the prodigal son, the fatted calf is conspicuously missing in its explanation. The Father kills the fatted calf, but the brother has no appetite to partake in the celebration because thinking that it is only meant for his brother...
Good point. Perhaps the prodigal son can also represent the Gentiles and the other son the Jews
in parallel/context with Romans 11?
The "truth", Christ, was revealed to the elect - those chosen by God for salvation - even during the OT timeframe, and that was/is the ONLY way that anyone can know it- ever - it is by God's revelation alone, not by man's. For those who believe in Christ as Savior, they happily rest in His perfectly completed work knowing there is nothing else to be, nor that should be, added to it, to be made deserving of it. In fact, any attempt to do so is to say that He is not the Savior, otherwise, why else would someone believe they need to add anything besides that which He has already provided - both can't be true at the same time - He is either the Savior and saves fully, or He doesn't fully save and thereby isn't the Savior.
Hello Ouch, if that's true, why don't we know about Him until someone tells us about Him/why does He call us to be His witnesses (Isaiah 43:10; Mark 16:15; Acts 1:8; Romans 10:13-14, 17)
I don't know whether that's true or not (that the Lord Jesus talks to "all" of us, that is .. if "all" includes unbelievers) since there would be little point in Him doing so .. e.g. 1 Corinthians 2:14. However, "all" of us are given an inner voice (of sorts), a basic knowledge & understanding of right and wrong, good and evil (what the Apostle Paul refers to as the "law written on our hearts" by God from birth .. see Romans 2:12-16, particularly v14-15).
I'm not sure how that would be possible since we know that, even today, there are many who die without ever knowing Him or in some cases without even hearing His Name, much less the Gospel, especially in the far reaches of the Third World.
Many around the world still have little to no access to the Internet and/or to the devices that are required to use it. Hopefully that will continue to change however, because the number of the unreached people groups on the planet, and the number of individuals who make them up, is certainly a staggering number (2 billion+ individuals worldwide).
God bless you!!
~Deuteronomy (David)
p.s. - reaching the remaining unreached people/people groups in the world is going to apparently be done (in large part anyway) via the Internet going forward, as a number of our larger missions organizations are working together now to that end.
Born of water in John 3..
Nicodemus is talking about the amniotic fluid of the womb.. water of the womb. Eg.. Can a man be born a second time into his mother's womb?
So Jesus doesn't say..this is not the water of birth I'm talking about.. but says to be born of water and of the Spirit.
He didn't contradict Nicodemus but added being born of the Spirit.
So John 3 isn't about water baptism.
Or the other way to look at John 3 is that it's the figurative washing of the Holy Spirit at salvation. Water representing the washing of the Word ..not water baptism.
Then Acts 2:38-39 must harmonize with other scripture. So the book of John barely mentions water baptism..neither does Romans 10.. neither does Ephesians 2.
So then the passage itself is about being baptised 'because of already having' remission of sins.
'For' the remission of sins..is like being given a pill 'for' and illness.
The illness is already there.
Salvation is already given.
Water baptism is the right response to having salvation..but not the means to get salvation.
The other way to look at it..is since baptism signifies a life long commitment to Jesus.. showing Jesus's life death and resurrection....
Is that it is 'for the remission of sin'.
Not salvation itself.. but representative of it.
I didn't attempt to present the entire gospel message, just the core of it. Obviously, there are many opinions on what constitutes "core".
1. God chooses to elect all who cooperate with His will as revealed, which may be via creation (RM 1:20), conscience (RM 2:9-16),
the OT/Law (Col. 2:17, Heb. 10:1) and the NT (the NT).
2. Only the NT revealed Christ rather fully (Heb. 10:1, Eph. 3:2-6)
3. Yes, we who have the benefit of the NT revelation are happy in that knowledge,
and those who reject the NT Gospel will be judged most severely/more severely than those who were not so blessed.
4. Yes, God's revelation is now complete and nothing new should be added to it.
Hello Ouch, if that's true, why don't we know about Him until someone tells us about Him/why does He call us to be His witnesses (Isaiah 43:10; Mark 16:15; Acts 1:8; Romans 10:13-14, 17)
I don't know whether that's true or not (that the Lord Jesus talks to "all" of us, that is .. if "all" includes unbelievers) since there would be little point in Him doing so .. e.g. 1 Corinthians 2:14. However, "all" of us are given an inner voice (of sorts), a basic knowledge & understanding of right and wrong, good and evil (what the Apostle Paul refers to as the "law written on our hearts" by God from birth .. see Romans 2:12-16, particularly v14-15).
I'm not sure how that would be possible since we know that, even today, there are many who die without ever knowing Him or in some cases without even hearing His Name, much less the Gospel, especially in the far reaches of the Third World.
Many around the world still have little to no access to the Internet and/or to the devices that are required to use it. Hopefully that will continue to change however, because the number of the unreached people groups on the planet, and the number of individuals who make them up, is certainly a staggering number (2 billion+ individuals worldwide).
God bless you!!
~Deuteronomy (David)
p.s. - reaching the remaining unreached people/people groups in the world is going to apparently be done (in large part anyway) via the Internet going forward, as a number of our larger missions organizations are working together now to that end.
Dear Deut, those without the NT would not know the name of Jesus/God the Son,
but via creation, conscience and right reasoning they could know they need to seek salvation and find God per Heb. 11:6.
Hello GWH, to say that it is quite a leap to get from 1. the Cosmos' general revelation about the existence of an unknown Creator/God to 2. the saving knowledge and understanding of the Lord Jesus Christ and the Gospel, would be a massive understatement (as I'm sure you'd agree). Do you know (or have you ever heard of) someone who has come to saving faith on the basis of the general revelation alone? I don't (nor do I think that it's possible for someone to do so .. e.g. John 14:6; Acts 4:12; Romans 3:10-12; 1 Corinthians 2:14).
Also, while our conscience clues us in to the type of person that we really are (a sinner), the guilt that we feel over the sins that we commit lasts only as long as it takes us to find a reasonable way to justify ourselves about them in our own eyes (so it seems to me that neither conscience nor reasoning do us much good either, rather, special revelation is always needed for us to know Him, as well to know that we need Him to save us, of course).
God bless you!!
~Deuteronomy
Well, it took a long time to get from Adam to us, but it is a small step for humankind
to believe that God has loved everyone in between. That is how great God is!
I have not known anyone saved via creation, nor have I known anyone condemned via creation,
but Romans 1:20 indicates that both are possible.
A lot of good guilt would do if it could not motivate seeking God's forgiveness!
Cooperation is not election - cooperation is cause and effect.
Rom 1:20 is about man's intellectual knowledge of his external environment. However, it is only by spiritual discernment through the Holy Spirit, and not by man's knowledge, that one can truly, in his heart, know things spiritual. Natural man, of himself, is incapable of doing so. He will be found guilty because he trusts solely in his own intellect for spiritual understanding/wisdom, which inevitably,
cannot lead him to truth.
Re Rm 2:9 -16. It is only by God that those who are saved are moved to do that which is pleasing in His eyes.
[Rom 2:4 KJV] 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
[Phl 2:13 KJV] 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.
Col 2:17 is speaking about the OT law as a shadow of Christ.
Similarly, with Heb 10:1 - it is saying OT law is a shadow of Christ.
It is the opposite of what you imply - that to truly understand OT law, we first must know Christ, it is not the reverse.
In both cases, only by the Holy Spirit, is Christ truly made known within the heart.
Sadly, it seems an impossibly large step for most of us to love Him back, however (which just goes to show how bad we really are
)! In fact, had He not stepped in to stop it/stop us (by saving a remnant from among those walking on the road to perdition) ALL would have been lost/NONE would have been saved, whether they be Jew or Greek .. e.g. Romans 3:9-12.Romans 1
20 Since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
While we are without excuse for not believing that God exists, the 'condemnation' of those who remain outside of Christ is still based on three other things, 1. their knowledge and 2. their understanding of the Law (even if the only "law" that they know and understand is the basic one that is written on their hearts from birth .. e.g. Romans 2:12-16), as well then 3. what they choose to do in this life with the knowledge and understanding that they possess.
Did you mean to say, "a lot of good guilt would do if it COULD motivate seeking God's forgiveness"?
You know, that's what the Law actually does for us, yes? It motivates us (like a harsh schoolmaster .. Galatians 3:24) by telling us 1. what God wants and expects from us, and then by 2. showing us how badly we've missed the mark that He's set for us
~Deuteronomy
Sure is, but what is 1 Corinthians chapter talking about? We would not want to take ONE verse out and make it sound like it means something and that it doesn't.
1 Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
Yep, after we have been filled with the Holy Ghost like in Acts 2:4 Paul is speaking about the DIFFERENT ADMINISTRATIONS OF IT. ONE SPIRIT, MANY DIFFERENT GIFTS.
Have YOU received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?
HOW were YOUR baptized?
Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Thank you for the bible lesson, ALL of HIS word is good.
How about keeping it simple, WHAT DO WE HAVE TO DO TO BE REBORN?
You see so many people know HIS word, but JESUS DON'T KNOW THEM.
Matthew 7:21-23
King James Version
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
AFTER JESUS throws them in HELL, then he speaks of FOUDATION.
So my question to you is what is the FOUNDATION of being born again.
IT IS A LIFE AND DEATH MATTER as you can see by SO many that THOUGHT they were OK WITH JESUS and HE NEVER KNEW THEM.
If you have the HOLY GHOST?
I ask you as Paul asked, have YOU received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?
How were YOU baptized?
Acts 19
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
The ones you replied to was my opinion NOT HIS WORD.Hello Ouch, if that's true, why don't we know about Him until someone tells us about Him/why does He call us to be His witnesses (Isaiah 43:10; Mark 16:15; Acts 1:8; Romans 10:13-14, 17)
I don't know whether that's true or not (that the Lord Jesus talks to "all" of us, that is .. if "all" includes unbelievers) since there would be little point in Him doing so .. e.g. 1 Corinthians 2:14. However, "all" of us are given an inner voice (of sorts), a basic knowledge & understanding of right and wrong, good and evil (what the Apostle Paul refers to as the "law written on our hearts" by God from birth .. see Romans 2:12-16, particularly v14-15).
I'm not sure how that would be possible since we know that, even today, there are many who die without ever knowing Him or in some cases without even hearing His Name, much less the Gospel, especially in the far reaches of the Third World.
Many around the world still have little to no access to the Internet and/or to the devices that are required to use it. Hopefully that will continue to change however, because the number of the unreached people groups on the planet, and the number of individuals who make them up, is certainly a staggering number (2 billion+ individuals worldwide).
God bless you!!
~Deuteronomy (David)
p.s. - reaching the remaining unreached people/people groups in the world is going to apparently be done (in large part anyway) via the Internet going forward, as a number of our larger missions organizations are working together now to that end.
it was just that, we all have one, I'm not debating my opinion because it doesn't matter.
Have YOU received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?
Acts 19
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
No idea where this stuff comes from?
John 3 IS NOT SPEAKING OF NATURAL BIRTH, that is when we GOT ALL OF OUR SINS.
JESUS was speaking to Nicodemus was HE ALL READY BORN???
If we were not born how could we get REBORN??
How could we read HIS WORD?
If not born naturaly how could you REPENT?
JESUS explains.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
So hopefull that his put to rest?
There is no other way to look at it, now your getting in to mens oppion and LEVEING HIS WORD OUT OF IT.
After the book of Acts are letter to churchs NOT THE UNSAVED.
WHAT???
"So then the passage itself is about being baptised 'because of already having' remission of sins."
HOW DID THAT HAPPEN, BACK THAT UP WITH HIS WORD!!
The rest of you statement is crazy.
Tell me what do you think we have to do to be reborn?
Are we still born in sin?
HOW DO WE GET RID OF IT?
Be great if you could just use HIS WORDS not your own.
There are, that is why it is so important to keep opinions out of it and JUST FOLLOW HIS WORD.I didn't attempt to present the entire gospel message, just the core of it. Obviously, there are many opinions on what constitutes "core".
Cause/God initiates; effect/(elect) sinners cooperate--or (nonelect sinners) do not.
Re Rom. 1:20: "without excuse" means for not cooperating with God/GW/the HS morally/spiritually.
Re Rom 2:9-16 & thru Rom. 11: God enables all to be saved, but they may be unwilling (Matt. 23:37).
Rom. 2:4: Exactly, but God's leading may be resisted.
Phil. 2:13: When sinners repent and invite Jesus into their hearts, God's HS leads them toward moral perfection.
Col. 2:17 & Heb. 10:1: Yes, the OT foreshadowed the Gospel of Christ. Glad we agree on that.
