Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[reneweddaybyday]

If I may be helpful:
Deuteronomy
6For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His prized possession out of all peoples on the face of the earth.
7The LORD did not set His affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than the other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples. 8But because the LORD loved you and kept the oath He swore to your fathers, He brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 4:37-40 And because he loved thy fathers, therefore he chose their seed after them, and brought thee out in his sight with his mighty power out of Egypt; To drive out nations from before thee greater and mightier than thou art, to bring thee in, to give thee their land for an inheritance, as it is this day. Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else. Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, for ever.

sadly, the children of Israel failed to drive out nations ... a failure which has resulted in what we see going on today in the ME.
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[studier]

Thanks again @Mem

Adding one more verse because Deut7:6 begins with "because" (translated "for" here) so 7:6 is telling us the reason for what's stated in 7:5 at minimum.

Deuteronomy 7:5-8

NKJ Deut5 "But thus you shall deal with them: you shall destroy their altars, and break down their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images1, and burn their carved images with fire. 6 For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His prized possession out of all peoples on the face of the earth. 7 The LORD did not set His affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than the other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples. 8 But because the LORD loved you and kept the oath He swore to your fathers, He brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

So, the point @Cameron143 is establishing is that God chose Israel. This is clear here and in several other Scriptures. (linked reference). So, I agree, God chose Israel [for something part of which is stated here] and as Mem has highlighted because of things stated in 7:8 tying back to Abraham, Isaac & Jacob/Israel.

It seems we're being mandated to not ask questions or make any points at the moment, so I'll leave @HeIsHere and @cv5 and @Mem posts aside for now even though they make good points and are forward and wide looking.

 

[HeIsHere]

In other words...I don't understand the passage? I thought you didn't use unbiblical phrases? Can you show me selection from scripture?
The way God chooses has everything to do with election. I agree it is for His people.

I never stated that, I stated the verse needs to be understood within the larger context, I really do not know what you think about this verse because you never really gave any clear explanation of how it ties into reprobation.

 

[studier]

You are the one with the leash. Only post in a certain manner, where you deem posts should go, and what form they should take. It's laughable that the one who conditions and restricts how he is to be addressed is the one on a leash.

Now, now, keep on track.

God chose Israel.

 

[Cameron143]

I never stated that, I stated the verse needs to be understood within the larger context, I really do not know what you think about this verse because you never really gave any clear explanation of how it ties into reprobation.

I haven't said anything about reprobation, nor made any attempt to tie the passage to reprobation. Perhaps that's why you didn't notice. I can't even get people to agree that the passage establishes that God chose Israel.

 

[Cameron143]

Now, now, keep on track.

God chose Israel.

That's the advantage of being able to walk and chew gum at the same time. You wouldn't understand. Whoops. You wouldn't understand the nuance.

 

[studier]

I haven't said anything about reprobation, nor made any attempt to tie the passage to reprobation. Perhaps that's why you didn't notice. I can't even get people to agree that the passage establishes that God chose Israel.

I agreed. I also provided a link to provide many more Scriptures that tell us God chose Israel.

 

[Magenta]

Jeremiah 32 verses 39-41a I will give them one heart and one way, so that they will always fear Me for their own good and for the good of their children after them. I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never turn away from doing good to them, and I will put My fear in their hearts, so that they will never turn away from Me. Yes, I will rejoice in doing them good.

 

[Cameron143]

I agreed. I also provided a link to provide many more Scriptures that tell us God chose Israel.

Thanks. You are becoming a very useful engine, Thomas.

 

[studier]

That's the advantage of being able to walk and chew gum at the same time. You wouldn't understand. Whoops. You wouldn't understand the nuance.

Looks like you and your friend liked my use of "nuance" somewhere.

Come on Cam, you've got the podium. Teach us about election.

 

[studier]

Thanks. You are becoming a very useful engine, Thomas.

So far and as long as you remain Scriptural.

 

[Magenta]

I haven't said anything about reprobation, nor made any attempt to tie the passage to reprobation. Perhaps that's
why you didn't notice. I can't even get people to agree that the passage establishes that God chose Israel.

I think their blinders are crazy glued onto their face...

Matthew 13:16-17 ~ Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

 

[Mem]

Deuteronomy 4:37-40 And because he loved thy fathers, therefore he chose their seed after them, and brought thee out in his sight with his mighty power out of Egypt; To drive out nations from before thee greater and mightier than thou art, to bring thee in, to give thee their land for an inheritance, as it is this day. Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else. Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, for ever.

sadly, the children of Israel failed to drive out nations ... a failure which has resulted in what we see going on today in the ME.
.

It definitely has not gone nor is going so well for them. Yet, if they should 'wake up from their slumber,' and 'rise, shine,' and recognize that their light has come... Although King Saul had failed to obey am explicit directive to drive out the Amalekites, here "To drive out nations from before thee..." strikes me a promise that God would perform Himself if they'd only taken all of His Words to heart.

 

[HeIsHere]

I haven't said anything about reprobation, nor made any attempt to tie the passage to reprobation. Perhaps that's why you didn't notice. I can't even get people to agree that the passage establishes that God chose Israel.

He chose them and they complied, already explained.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I haven't said anything about reprobation, nor made any attempt to tie the passage to reprobation. Perhaps that's why you didn't notice. I can't even get people to agree that the passage establishes that God chose Israel.

I couldn't get anyone on either side to agree that the Samaritan was the good neighbor ... as opposed to the helpless man who fell among thieves.

Such a simple truth to agree on ... but, there you go ... as stated last week ... some would rather argue about what is not in the passage in an effort to not "stick to what the passage teaches" ... and then wield a club at those who do not come into alignment with something that is not discussed in the passage.


Psalm 133:1-3 Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity! It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments; As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore.
.

 

[HeIsHere]

sadly, the children of Israel failed to drive out nations ... a failure which has resulted in what we see going on today in the ME.

Actually God drove them (Israelis) out and He warned them He would.

 

[Mem]

Thanks again @Mem

Adding one more verse because Deut7:6 begins with "because" (translated "for" here) so 7:6 is telling us the reason for what's stated in 7:5 at minimum.

Deuteronomy 7:5-8

NKJ Deut5 "But thus you shall deal with them: you shall destroy their altars, and break down their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images1, and burn their carved images with fire. 6 For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His prized possession out of all peoples on the face of the earth. 7 The LORD did not set His affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than the other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples. 8 But because the LORD loved you and kept the oath He swore to your fathers, He brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

So, the point @Cameron143 is establishing is that God chose Israel. This is clear here and in several other Scriptures. (linked reference). So, I agree, God chose Israel [for something part of which is stated here] and as Mem has highlighted because of things stated in 7:8 tying back to Abraham, Isaac & Jacob/Israel.

It seems we're being mandated to not ask questions or make any points at the moment, so I'll leave @HeIsHere and @cv5 and @Mem posts aside for now even though they make good points and are forward and wide looking.

You're very welcome. I know that Cam is too keen on homework, but he's always assigning it.

 

[Magenta]

He chose them and they complied, already explained.

They did??? LOL. I suppose that is why so many did evil in the sight of the LORD? They were complying?

Yikes.

 

[Cameron143]

Looks like you and your friend liked my use of "nuance" somewhere.

Come on Cam, you've got the podium. Teach us about election.

You use some fun words, but you break your side's rules. It is not kosher, according to them, to suggest someone doesn't understand, even in a nuanced way.

I have no problem discussing election, or most topics, if I believe it can be helpful. I don't think this would be the case with you. Even still, I did offer to discuss the topic if you started a thread on the topic. I will give you a tip though: election is not selection. Some people can't seem to understand the nuance.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

It definitely has not gone nor is going so well for them. Yet, if they should 'wake up from their slumber,' and 'rise, shine,' and recognize that their light has come... Although King Saul had failed to obey am explicit directive to drive out the Amalekites, here "To drive out nations from before thee..." strikes me a promise that God would perform Himself if they'd only taken all of His Words to heart.

right ... and Saul rationalized his error when Samuel confronted him and lost the kingdom as a result.
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