Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Pilgrimshope]

We have to will to have Him have his will done through us.

That requires learning and gaining lots of sound doctrine.
Why?
Because we will not know when His will is being desired, owing to the fact that His ways are not our ways, nor His thoughts our thoughts. (Isaiah 55:8-9)


Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only,
but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and
trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." Philippians 2:12-13

One reason for our fear and trembling is because God does not fear what we fear!
We are to be learning His ways as to walk as He walks!

I was trying yesterday to reply to this part

“We have to will to have Him have his will done through us.

“That requires learning and gaining lots of sound doctrine. Why?

it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure."

That’s really well said . So many people read a scripture like this

“it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure."


And they don’t connect the rest of what Paul was saying there about doctrine and obedience constantly more and more as we grow they don’t realize that is how God is working in us to change us .

instead they imagine he magically does this in secret if and only if you are a chosen one …

“ it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure."

rather than just reading the context of what he’s saying about working out our salvation through hearing and considering and believing and acting upon the doctrine in o edoence as we learn it . Not before we learn and come to know his word but as and after we come to that point of listening to him and believing because he’s the lord speaking the truth to us for our good and salvation

i really liked what you said there think it was well put . God works in us because we accept Jesus and the gospel doctrine that changes our minds and hearts

 

[Mouse_Cheeks]

Libertarian free choice is ours. What to have for dinner,which car to buy,etc....

The course of our lives is in God's power,as he tells us.

And I find it a bit odd that many a Christian say they believe the Bible is God's word, but they don't believe God meant what he tells us in those parts the individual christian finds disagreeable with what they prefer to think on God's behalf.

 

[GWH]

“Have explained in several comments i don't think our will is controlled at all, we certainly have both choice and will and can exercise both. “

yeah I agree with what’s above here .^^

“i don't think our will is controlled at all, “

the problem is I’m not understanding how it’s not free if it’s under our own control . Speaking as a Christian of course

other people have thier own will that they also control correct ?

If someone chooses to do something that affects me are they doing it of themselves and thier own will ?

“Free will is the ability to exercise/execute our will and choices unilaterally,”

“Have explained in several comments i don't think our will is controlled at all, we certainly have both choice and will and can exercise both. “

ok so ?

You believe we have a Will and the ability to choose , and can exercise both our Will and choices …… yeah I think we agree much more than I had thought before

God bless thanks for being patient

Human volition is limited, and regarding salvation it is limited to cooperating with God's moral will--or not,
which in the NT is revealed as accepting Christ and cooperating with His HS.

“cooperating with God's moral will--or not,”

yeah that’s always been the situation since they partook of good and evil knowledge.

Even since cain the first born man “ if you do good you will be accepted but I’d you do not do good sin is waiting to have you , but you must overcome it “

In that comment you replied to is sort of the latter point of something I was trying to work through in conversation and thought to understand another persons view of “ free Will “.

man was made free but we become bond servants to either good or evil based on what we partake of in this world . If we live sinful lives lord and more we’re going to reap that if we turn from those things and walk the other way with and towards the good in our heart then we’ll be made free again.

I was really just trying to find out what tbier definition of “ Will “ was , and how it was free or not .

man definetely become servants to sin in our lives and need to be set free . I was really just trying to get to that part of how and why man became corrupted in the area of our Will and motivations .

How we became like this inside which is the source of our bondage outwardly in our actions

I believe the condition of our Will is based on the condition of our hearts and minds which the gospel can heal taking us from this place

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬


to this place which the gospel accomplishes if we’re willing to listen to the lords word within it

“But ye have not so learned Christ; if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: ( John 8:31-32) that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; (that’s what Jesus was saying )

and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; ( this is why we need to listen to Jesus word )

and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:20-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This new man is not the same as the old man he’s no longer in n a snare and trap of the devil by his Will, but accepting the truth has brought his mind to repentance

“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that last part there shows us that sinners are captives of satans will, and need to acknowledge the gospel in order to recover themselves out of his deadly trap tbat all began with a lie and then more lies and more lies and so the truth becomes the way we are redeemed and then more truth and more truth ….

and so from one glory to the next and from faith upon faith we are constantly being renewed more and more in our minds and hearts through belief that wickedness can’t abide there anymore in our minds and hearts where our Will and choices are determined

I think discussion of volition revolves around the mystery of how humans can exercise it free of deterministic causation
without implying that the person who does so by deciding to cooperate with God merits salvation. I think this is related to something I ponder in Lesson 1 of our website:

The atheist opinion indicates that the existence of a supernatural Deity is not proven, although it is not disproved either, which means that the evidence needs to be evaluated honestly. Atheists assert that one cannot prove a negative, so the burden is on theists to prove God exists. However, this assertion assumes God is not the positive “I AM” (see axiomatic belief #1).

A neutral statement about ultimate reality is the following: “It is logical to remain open to believing all credible possibilities (those which present sufficient evidence) and to hope the most desirable rational possibility is true.” Alternatively, the Bible indicates that the purpose of this life is rather for humans to prove to God they are worthy of—or qualify for—heaven (cf. Deut. 6:16 & Matt. 4:7).

This discussion shows that everyone lives by faith regarding God or ultimate reality (2Cor. 5:7), and the structure of earthly reality forces souls to choose between various contradictory beliefs and to make (albeit sometimes rather subconsciously) the two watershed choices described: between nihilism and moralism, and between the various atheistic beliefs and the highest type of theism, NT Christianity. (For reasons explained in the next parts, I believe the last is best: Let there be God!)

 

[Genez]

Those who keep saying we do not have free will are mouthing the thinking of Satan...
He wanted to be God! They want to have free will like God alone possesses free will.

Of course, God is the only one who has absolute free will!
Free will does not mean we think it, we have it.

Free will means what has been determined for us by God as far as how we can choose.

WOKE people defy God's order, and demand that we see a female as a man.
That is feigning possessing free will on the level God has denied us.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Those who keep saying we do not have free will are mouthing the thinking of Satan...
He wanted to be God! They want to have free will like God alone possesses free will.

Of course, God is the only one who has absolute free will!
Free will does not mean we think it, we have it.

Free will means what has been determined for us by God as far as how we can choose.

WOKE people defy God's order, and demand that we see a female as a man.
That is feigning possessing free will on the level God has denied us.

Oh glory! Hoped you were starting to see the error of your trolling ways, however, you've put the kibosh on that with one of the most stupid, irrational, emotive comments, it's ever been my misfortune to see.
Woke people? Couldn't you think of anything which actually bears relation to my post?

 

[GWH]

Those who keep saying we do not have free will are mouthing the thinking of Satan...
He wanted to be God! They want to have free will like God alone possesses free will.

Of course, God is the only one who has absolute free will!
Free will does not mean we think it, we have it.

Free will means what has been determined for us by God as far as how we can choose.

WOKE people defy God's order, and demand that we see a female as a man.
That is feigning possessing free will on the level God has denied us.

Free will regarding salvation means being accountable/blameworthy for sin,
so that condemnation to hell is the just and logical consequence.

 

[LifelongLearner]

“, the Lord was entitled to get a little irate at all our shenanigans but i was thinking more we'd have driven ourselves to extinction in our early days, if we had free will”

so he was upset with what we did and decided to destroy everyone ? Or was it his Will ?

Think he was much saddened and probably angry at the besmirching of his wondrous creation, however, no way was the flood an act of raw emotion. It was an act of will, a necessary cleaning up process because of angel/human hybrid contamination in my opinion, to a degree where his will could be fully realised.

It was also a good lesson for us as to why we need his guidance and instruction, the evil just prior to the flood must have been an exceptionally toxic miasma friend.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Free will regarding salvation means being accountable/blameworthy for sin,
so that condemnation to hell is the just and logical consequence.

Goodness! You've said something i can actually agree with, we certainly have will/can make choices and that is something where we would have total free will.
it neither impacts on nor needs the cooperation of others.

 

[GWH]

Goodness! You've said something i can actually agree with, we certainly have will/can make choices and that is something where we would have total free will.
it neither impacts on nor needs the cooperation of others.

Agreement regarding the meaning of GW is good and too rare.
I had Deut. 30:19, Matt. 23:37 and Paul's Sermon on Salvation in Romans 1-5 especially in mind:

1. Romans 1:16 says the Gospel reveals that (s/e) is for “everyone who believes”, both Jew and Gentile.

2. Romans 1:17 describes s/e as “righteousness from God” that is by faith “from first to last” or from creation until the end.

3. Romans 2:4 teaches that God’s kindness or patience with sinners is meant to lead them toward repentance, which implies that sinners are able to repent because of God’s leading.

4. Romans 2:5 warns that those who do not repent but instead stubbornly resist God’s leading are storing up wrath against themselves for the day when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed, which implies that God enables sinners to repent–or not (cf. Deut. 30:19).

5. Romans 2:6 affirms what is called karma by saying that “God will give to each person according to what he has done”, which (in Gal. 6:7-9) is called reaping what a person sows.

6. Romans 2:7 speaks of the need for “persistence in doing good” and seeking glory, honor and immortality in order to receive s/e or eternal life, which echoes what Jesus commanded (in Matt. 7:7) and connects with the doctrine of perseverance (cf. Heb. 10:36 & Jam. 1:3-4).

7. Romans 2:11 teaches that “God does not show favoritism” (cf. Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25, 1Pet. 1:17), which is how God judges people justly, so the fact that some sinners ignore God’s Gospel indicates that His will or leading is resistible because of MFW.

8. Romans 2:15 teaches that sinful souls have a conscience or awareness of “the requirements of the law”, which may be combined with Romans 1:20 to teach that God’s power and moral nature or will may be perceived via creation and conscience (called natural revelation), thus those unfamiliar with God’s Word in Scripture have no good reason for resisting divine leading and choosing atheism/evil.

9. Romans 3:20-21 states the law makes souls conscious of sin and that “the Law and Prophets testify” or prepare the way for the new revelation of righteousness from God apart from the Law, which takes up where Romans 1:17 left off.

10. Romans 3:22a says that “righteousness from God” or s/e comes through faith “in Jesus Christ” (cf. Eph. 2:8), a phrase Paul used eleven times in Ephesians 1:3-14 to indicate s/e.

11. Romans 3:22b says that God’s righteousness is given “to all who believe—there is no difference”” signifying that all sinners may believe or be s/e (cf. 1Tim. 2:3-4, John 3:16, Tit. 2:11), because there is no favoritism (#7).

12. Romans 3:23 teaches that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”, meaning that no one can be good enough to earn salvation because of their own merit.

13. Romans 3:24 says sinners “are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus” (via faith per v.22, cf. 3:27-28); s/e is free because Christ paid the price/cost.

14. Romans 3:25a explains redemption as being “a sacrifice of atonement” for those who have faith in Christ’s work of dying in their place.

15. Romans 3:25b further explains that God demonstrated his just patience (#3) or forbearance in leaving unpunished those sins committed before the revealing of the Gospel (foreshadowed in Gen. 22:8 & 13), implying that sinners had/have the opportunity to believe and be s/e thereby demonstrating God’s justice/not showing favoritism (#11).

16. Romans 3:26 continues to emphasize divine justice by declaring it three ways (“justice…, just…, justifies”), which justness is synonymous with righteousness (2Thes. 1:5-6, Heb. 6:10).

17. Romans 4:1-25 presents Abraham as a Gentile who became the physical father of the Jews and the spiritual father of all who choose to have faith in God/Christ.

18. Romans 5:1 echos Eph. 2:8 by describing s/e as justification through faith, Eph. 1:5 & 7 by using the phrase “through Jesus Christ”, and Eph. 2:14 by describing s/e as having peace with God.

 

[Mouse_Cheeks]

Oh glory! Hoped you were starting to see the error of your trolling ways, however, you've put the kibosh on that with one of the most stupid, irrational, emotive comments, it's ever been my misfortune to see.
Woke people? Couldn't you think of anything which actually bears relation to my post?

The ego and flesh cannot bear the thought of it not being in control of this life.

We don't have full on free will. God tells us this.

Those who call God mistaken in that are telling us everything we need to know.