Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

From 2 Timothy 1 verses 8b-9 Join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God. He has saved us and called us to a holy life - not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.

 

[LifelongLearner]

If we did not have free will then how did anyone sin.

Lucifer was created perfect in his ways until iniquity was found in him but if he did not have free will then how was iniquity found in him when he was created perfect in his ways.

Adam and Eve were created in the image of God an innocent nature in flesh with no sin on their record so if they did not have free will how did they sin.

Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

If Adam and Eve did not have free will that would mean that God wanted them to fall which goes against His nature of being good and wanting us to be good.

God does not want us to sin so He is not going to cause us to sin.

If we did not have free will then God's kingdom is not true love but robotic love and God is not evil to condemn people that do not have a choice but to not accept the truth because they do not have free will.

If God did choose in the beginning who will be saved without their choice then what is the purpose of the earth.

God could of made them to be with Him and cut out the earth and the result would be the same for they do not choose their salvation.

The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world for God calls things that have not happened yet as though they already happened.

The saints are predestined to salvation means that God had the plan to give mankind salvation from the foundation of the earth and this salvation is to whoever wants it.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

God wants all people to be saved so we have free will to choose salvation or reject it.

Not your fault but i've been asked that question so many times and answered it ad nauseam. Might be a good idea to compose a stock explanation and post it every few pages, to help prevent me losing the will to live because of people unrealistically thinking they're the first to come up with the question.

Beyond bored with it now and doubt yet another explanation from me will suffice, however, here goes:
Adam and Eve sinned because we have choice, which people confuse/conflate with free will. What proves it wasn't free will is getting booted out of Eden and beginning to die, wasn't something they considered or wanted to happen.

Humans do not have free will because unless what we want to do has little or no impact on others, we need the cooperation of others. This is true of what we call tyrants too, who need enablers to impose tyranny, hope that makes sense.

 

[LifelongLearner]

From 2 Timothy 1 verses 8b-9 Join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God. He has saved us and called us to a holy life - not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.

Top of the morn precious sister, don't know how you do it but the lady in this panel looks rather like me. The main thing being the eyes, i have striking, unusual colour eyes too.

Hugs and blessings, hope you have a lovely Sunday =)

 

[LifelongLearner]

yes your a good discussion partner I’ve found that often times we learn the most from a conversation where two people actually don’t agree on every thought and point . Sometimes we’re wrong and without those types of discussions we’ll never realize it . And if we can’t be peaceable even as we disagree we’re just spinning wheels in the mud so I truly appreciate folks like yourself and the time you share with me in discussion of course in good spirit which always matters a lot


“I notice you too conflate qualities/abilities i see as separate, choice and will aren't a single characteristic, they're components which can be combined at times. “

^^^This is why I was trying to ask about how you would describe what is a persons Will ? Remember ?

I was trying to determine what exactly your seeing as “ will “ but I never really noticed an answer . Or I’m not smart enough to grasp it lol I’m. Ot sure which .

I’m not sure you remember what I was saying but i hadn’t made this point that they are a single characteristic at all

“choice and will aren't a single characteristic”

Can we go back to my original question ? I think it would help a lot

If I were to ask you genuinely as if I had no clue what it was ……what is a persons will ?

how would you explain what a person Will is to me ?

before we get into “ free Will “ I really would like to get on the same page as to what we’re meaning by the term “will “

ps lol my cat is hating me currently I have to give him eye meds three times a day I’m the enemy currently in his little world

So much i agree with here Pilgrimshope, unlike most people on this post of mine, i don't get emotionally invested in my opinions. I'll hold on to them if they're worthy/logical but if they stop being so, i'm more than happy to ditch them for something more accurate.

Pretty sure you think similarly and you're definitely a great partner for interesting discussion. Not perfect but i'd describe will as wanting to create an outcome we think would be useful or beneficial. Which we can pretty often but obviously, the more it impacts others, the more resistance we're likely to face. Which is fair enough for sure.

Not easy answering the question without writing an essay length comment, hope my answer helps friend and i'd love to chat more about it.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So much i agree with here Pilgrimshope, unlike most people on this post of mine, i don't get emotionally invested in my opinions. I'll hold on to them if they're worthy/logical but if they stop being so, i'm more than happy to ditch them for something more accurate.

Pretty sure you think similarly and you're definitely a great partner for interesting discussion. Not perfect but i'd describe will as wanting to create an outcome we think would be useful or beneficial. Which we can pretty often but obviously, the more it impacts others, the more resistance we're likely to face. Which is fair enough for sure.

Not easy answering the question without writing an essay length comment, hope my answer helps friend and i'd love to chat more about it.

Im perfectly fine with length

“Not perfect but i'd describe will as wanting to create an outcome we think would be useful or beneficial.”

Ok so how do we determine if this is free and we control it or if someone else is controlling it apart from us ?

 

[Genez]

Not your fault but i've been asked that question so many times and answered it ad nauseam. Might be a good idea to compose a stock explanation and post it every few pages, to help prevent me losing the will to live because of people unrealistically thinking they're the first to come up with the question.

Beyond bored with it now and doubt yet another explanation from me will suffice, however, here goes:
Adam and Eve sinned because we have choice, which people confuse/conflate with free will. What proves it wasn't free will is getting booted out of Eden and beginning to die, wasn't something they considered or wanted to happen.

Humans do not have free will because unless what we want to do has little or no impact on others, we need the cooperation of others. This is true of what we call tyrants too, who need enablers to impose tyranny, hope that makes sense.

Do I sense a concept of free will from you, which would equate with whatever you wish to do will be done?
Is that the case?

 

[Magenta]

Top of the morn precious sister, don't know how you do it but the lady in this panel looks rather like me. The main thing being the eyes, i have striking, unusual colour eyes too.

Hugs and blessings, hope you have a lovely Sunday =)

Thank you dear... and that is a little odd that I have been able to closely replicate both you and your daughter with the female figures in my panels! food for thought LOL... I am just out having coffee now ... I've been staying at my daughter's for the past week looking after her cats while she is away with her aunt, holidaying with their two dogs as they have done for quite a few years, now... I have another week to go and then I get to go home, hurray hurrah! this house is too big for me LOL And it is the first time I've stayed here for any length of time because it is a new house for them, having just moved into it late last year ... so it's a new space for my little cat also... Heh she loves the big cat tree in the family room ... she gets to curl up in the little cubby or sit on the platform and look out the window at the backyard...

I hope you are having a wonderful Sunday also! It's nice to have you back with us...

 

[Magenta]

Humans do not have free will because unless what we want to do has little or no impact on others, we need the cooperation of others. This is true of what we call tyrants too, who need enablers to impose tyranny, hope that makes sense.

I wonder why people conflate being able to make choices with having a will that is free. Scripture specifically articulates the fact that the whole world is under the power and influence of the evil one... and that the devil has taken some captive to do his will... so I really don't see any freedom in that. And that is even aside from the fact that Scripture also explicitly articulates the fact that anyone who sins is a slave to sin. I wonder what part of "slaves are not free" they do not understand. But really it just becomes obvious that so many reject, contradict, and outright deny what Scripture explicitly says, and replace it with their vain philosophies and traditions of men, and they are not in any way willing to let those false doctrines go.

 

[GWH]

I wonder why people conflate being able to make choices with having a will that is free. Scripture specifically articulates the fact that the whole world is under the power and influence of the evil one... and that the devil has taken some captive to do his will... so I really don't see any freedom in that. And that is even aside from the fact that Scripture also explicitly articulates the fact that anyone who sins is a slave to sin. I wonder what part of "slaves are not free" they do not understand. But really it just becomes obvious that so many reject, contradict, and outright deny what Scripture explicitly says, and replace it with their vain philosophies and traditions of men, and they are not in any way willing to let those false doctrines go.

DOE #23. Romans 6:15-23 describes s/e in terms of being slaves to whom one willingly obeys,
whether to sin or to obedience of God’s teaching that leads to righteousness, which results
in eternal life “in Christ Jesus our Lord” (cf. #10).

 

[Genez]

I wonder why people conflate being able to make choices with having a will that is free. Scripture specifically articulates the fact that the whole world is under the power and influence of the evil one... and that the devil has taken some captive to do his will... so I really don't see any freedom in that.

If you are in Christ?
You are no longer of this world.

Do you know that?

If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own.
As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen
you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. John 15:19

The Devil does not want us to know that experientially and live it.​

.

 

[Blain]

According to scripture we are not our own we are slaves to Christ there seems to be a confusion with making choices and have a free will we have a will yes but once your in Christ you no longer have free will you only have the will of Christ in you. your will is not a free will you have no say in the outcome of your choices any more than the hair on your head being turned blond

we can freely choose yes but a free will means we can frelly will something for our desires which we cannot we are slaves to Christ

 

[Genez]

According to scripture we are not our own we are slaves to Christ there seems to be a confusion with making choices and have a free will we have a will yes but once your in Christ you no longer have free will you only have the will of Christ in you. your will is not a free will you have no say in the outcome of your choices any more than the hair on your head being turned blond

we can freely choose yes but a free will means we can frelly will something for our desires which we cannot we are slaves to Christ

But, if you choose to do His will?

John 8:31-32

To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

If the truth is contrary to your own will?
Then you are free to not be free.

 

[Blain]

But, if you choose to do His will?

John 8:31-32

To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

If the truth is contrary to your own will?
Then you are free to not be free.

yes but this verse is not speaking on free will it is speaking on following his teachings which is a choice yes but free will has to do with the ability to choose freely which if you are a disciple of Christ you only have the will of the father in you not your own will whcih is contrary to his

I would rather lose my will and only have his will true surrender means giving up free will submitting only to Christ.

 

[Magenta]

Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin."

From Romans 6:19-21 You used to offer your body in slavery to impurity and to escalating wickedness when you were slaves to sin. What fruit did you reap at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? The outcome of those things is death.