Making a case for women in leadership
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You've made your case in your mind, but not anyone else's. I don't need to disprove you. The clear reading of the text and millennia of church doctrine are all the evidence I need to back it up. You want it to say something that it doesn't say, but won't provide any evidence to back up that assertion.
From Brittanica:
ad hominem, type of argument or attack that appeals to prejudice or feelings or irrelevantly impugns another person’s character instead of addressing the facts or claims made by the latter.
Given that’s how I understand it and how I used it, it is unreasonable to accuse me of not understanding it.
ad hominem, type of argument or attack that appeals to prejudice or feelings or irrelevantly impugns another person’s character instead of addressing the facts or claims made by the latter.
Given that’s how I understand it and how I used it, it is unreasonable to accuse me of not understanding it.
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This is based on 1Tim.2
What's the context? How one should behave in the marriage or how one should behave in the congregation? What analogy is used? The relationship of man and woman in a marriage or men and women in general?
God set an order. That order has relevance where similar occasions occur. Within a marriage, it is the husband's role to protect and serve his wife, within the congregation it is the pastor's role to protect and serve his congregation.
This is not about Christ as head of the Church or a pastor having rights and privileges over a congregation. Indeed, a husband doesn't have rights and privileges over his wife. What he has is a responsibility to protect her, a responsibility in which we see Adam failed.
To be honest, the very fact that you would see a husband's authority as some sort of right or privilege, I find disturbing.
Our Lord is referred to as the "Servant King" for a reason.
What's the context? How one should behave in the marriage or how one should behave in the congregation? What analogy is used? The relationship of man and woman in a marriage or men and women in general?
God set an order. That order has relevance where similar occasions occur. Within a marriage, it is the husband's role to protect and serve his wife, within the congregation it is the pastor's role to protect and serve his congregation.
This is not about Christ as head of the Church or a pastor having rights and privileges over a congregation. Indeed, a husband doesn't have rights and privileges over his wife. What he has is a responsibility to protect her, a responsibility in which we see Adam failed.
To be honest, the very fact that you would see a husband's authority as some sort of right or privilege, I find disturbing.
Our Lord is referred to as the "Servant King" for a reason.
This is based on 1Tim.2
What's the context? How one should behave in the marriage or how one should behave in the congregation? What analogy is used? The relationship of man and woman in a marriage or men and women in general?
God set an order. That order has relevance where similar occasions occur. Within a marriage, it is the husband's role to protect and serve his wife, within the congregation it is the pastor's role to protect and serve his congregation.
This is not about Christ as head of the Church or a pastor having rights and privileges over a congregation. Indeed, a husband doesn't have rights and privileges over his wife. What he has is a responsibility to protect her, a responsibility in which we see Adam failed.
To be honest, the very fact that you would see a husband's authority as some sort of right or privilege, I find disturbing.
Our Lord is referred to as the "Servant King" for a reason.
What's the context? How one should behave in the marriage or how one should behave in the congregation? What analogy is used? The relationship of man and woman in a marriage or men and women in general?
God set an order. That order has relevance where similar occasions occur. Within a marriage, it is the husband's role to protect and serve his wife, within the congregation it is the pastor's role to protect and serve his congregation.
This is not about Christ as head of the Church or a pastor having rights and privileges over a congregation. Indeed, a husband doesn't have rights and privileges over his wife. What he has is a responsibility to protect her, a responsibility in which we see Adam failed.
To be honest, the very fact that you would see a husband's authority as some sort of right or privilege, I find disturbing.
Our Lord is referred to as the "Servant King" for a reason.
The context addressed is within the parameters of a marriage within the parameters of an assembly, i.e. that context within this context.
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To be fair, most men who talk about a husband's authority crow about it as if it is both a right and a privilege.
The ones who see it for what it really is (a huge responsibility), those are usually the ones who don't make a big deal about it, because they don't see it as something to crow about.
This fact left me with a very warped view of submission (and marriage in general), and I am only just now in my 40s understanding it as God intended it. Thanks a lot, guys. 😕
The ones who see it for what it really is (a huge responsibility), those are usually the ones who don't make a big deal about it, because they don't see it as something to crow about.
This fact left me with a very warped view of submission (and marriage in general), and I am only just now in my 40s understanding it as God intended it. Thanks a lot, guys. 😕
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I believe women are fully gifted by God to teach, prophesy, evangelize, disciple, and lead in powerful ways — but not to step into the role of preaching with spiritual authority over men in the gathered church setting.
This isn’t because women are less capable — it’s because I believe God, in His wisdom and order, has set specific roles for men and women in the body of Christ. That includes male eldership and the role of pastoral preaching authority in the church.
> “I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent…” (1 Tim. 2:12)
Yes, women like Priscilla taught Apollos. Yes, women prophesied publicly. But those roles aren’t the same as authoritative preaching from the pulpit to the whole church body. Prophecy is spontaneous, Spirit-given insight; preaching is the public exposition and authoritative application of the Word — and I believe that role is biblically reserved for qualified men.
This doesn’t silence women — it honors God's created order. And it doesn’t mean women aren’t valuable in ministry — it means we serve in different ways, according to His design. God is not the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33), and when we align ourselves with His Word, the Church thrives in power and purity.
This view isn’t about control — it’s about obedience. Not tradition — but Scripture.
Women have powerful voices, and they should use them — in teaching, discipling, prophesying, writing, praying, evangelizing, and leading other women. But when it comes to the authoritative preaching role over the corporate church, I believe God has given that mantle to men, not as tyrants — but as servants, accountable before Him.
Let’s not confuse equality in value with sameness in role.
Let’s not call restriction oppression when it’s actually God’s protection.
Let’s not be ashamed of the order God called good from the beginning.
This isn’t because women are less capable — it’s because I believe God, in His wisdom and order, has set specific roles for men and women in the body of Christ. That includes male eldership and the role of pastoral preaching authority in the church.
> “I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent…” (1 Tim. 2:12)
Yes, women like Priscilla taught Apollos. Yes, women prophesied publicly. But those roles aren’t the same as authoritative preaching from the pulpit to the whole church body. Prophecy is spontaneous, Spirit-given insight; preaching is the public exposition and authoritative application of the Word — and I believe that role is biblically reserved for qualified men.
This doesn’t silence women — it honors God's created order. And it doesn’t mean women aren’t valuable in ministry — it means we serve in different ways, according to His design. God is not the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33), and when we align ourselves with His Word, the Church thrives in power and purity.
This view isn’t about control — it’s about obedience. Not tradition — but Scripture.
Women have powerful voices, and they should use them — in teaching, discipling, prophesying, writing, praying, evangelizing, and leading other women. But when it comes to the authoritative preaching role over the corporate church, I believe God has given that mantle to men, not as tyrants — but as servants, accountable before Him.
Let’s not confuse equality in value with sameness in role.
Let’s not call restriction oppression when it’s actually God’s protection.
Let’s not be ashamed of the order God called good from the beginning.
Any other? Have you heard what I have said? I am speaking very specifically about the authority a pastor has within his congregation in relation to the teaching of the word. He doesn't have authority to tell them where they must live, or what job they can do or how to dress. I am not talking about giving authority away in a general sense.
The context is conduct within the body of Christ. If a woman is not aloud to boss her husband around (and she isn't allowed), then neither is she allowed to assume she can boss other men around in the Church in respect to the teaching of the word. God has appointed pastor/teachers for the benefit of the congregation for this very reason. There is a hierarchy in God's system whether people like it or not. The same principle applies to males who are not appointed pastor/teacher. They don't have the right to undermine their pastor either by usurping his authority in the teaching of the word. Women are not given the independent authority to teach the word of God. The authority to do this is unique which is why pastors cop a double dose of discipline if they stuff up.
Sometimes I think people forget the one who received the greatest commendation for their faith was the centurion who understood authority. Matt.8:8-10
The context is conduct within the body of Christ. If a woman is not aloud to boss her husband around (and she isn't allowed), then neither is she allowed to assume she can boss other men around in the Church in respect to the teaching of the word. God has appointed pastor/teachers for the benefit of the congregation for this very reason. There is a hierarchy in God's system whether people like it or not. The same principle applies to males who are not appointed pastor/teacher. They don't have the right to undermine their pastor either by usurping his authority in the teaching of the word. Women are not given the independent authority to teach the word of God. The authority to do this is unique which is why pastors cop a double dose of discipline if they stuff up.
Sometimes I think people forget the one who received the greatest commendation for their faith was the centurion who understood authority. Matt.8:8-10
So then you are just not going to be able to disprove me then? your the only one who seems to think you are right if you haven't noticed and you provide no evidence to back yourself up not even a single scripture and all you can do is provide confident remarks with no evidence what so ever
I think we are done here it is clear you are not able to have an actual discussion or debate so good day to you sir
I think we are done here it is clear you are not able to have an actual discussion or debate so good day to you sir
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I think you are pretty much spot on here, the only thing is though that the role of a pastor is not supposed to be of authority in any way not even a leader in fact it is more of a teacher and preacher the only one with any authoirty in the church is Christ himself. and if a women can be a judge in God's word which is a role of authoirty a very high one at that then how is a pastor any different?
from Matthew 20 verses 25-28 (Mark 10 verses 43-45, Luke 22 verses 26-27) ~ Jesus said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their superiors exercise authority over them. It shall not be this way among you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave- just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.”
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