Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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Blain?
Free will? Charge money? (it was supposed to be a joke!)
Free will? Charge money? (it was supposed to be a joke!)
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Free Will > Choice > & Choice gives every person the option to do what is Right or to dowhat is Wrong....!
This is where judgment day factors in! Since people have choice and choice allows people to do what is Right or what is Wrong those choices that one chooses to act upon while they are on earth will be those choices that God will use to judge that person before send that person to either Heaven / Hell...!
Essentially, the choices one makes on earth will be those same choices that God will use against that person to determine one's fate in Heaven or Hell...!
This is where judgment day factors in! Since people have choice and choice allows people to do what is Right or what is Wrong those choices that one chooses to act upon while they are on earth will be those choices that God will use to judge that person before send that person to either Heaven / Hell...!
Essentially, the choices one makes on earth will be those same choices that God will use against that person to determine one's fate in Heaven or Hell...!
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“The option to do what is Right or to dowhat is Wrong....!”
Exactly if a person is given two options that are opposed and is free to choose either and also will be held accountable by God for what they did not what he did through them or what he made then do but the choices they made themselves. Judgement doesn’t make any sense at all of man isn’t choosing good and evil that was set before them in the world.
“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
Romans 2:6-11 NIV
“See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;”
Deuteronomy 30:15 KJV
He’s literally giving them a choice between life and death and bidding them to choose life.
“This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live”
Deuteronomy 30:19 NIV
our Will is free until we give ourselves to something or someone else’s .
I was reading about pornography addiction recently there were ten twenty somethings that had been addicted to watching porn since they were young teens. One was talking and said “ I never wanted the perverted things I want now until I watched them over and over and imagined and what it felt like ect
you could listen to his story and watch as his Will became more and more corrupt with twisted lusts of the world when he tried to stop he couldn’t it became an addiction which means his Will and desires his drive and motivations were corrupted what his heart and body wanted were corrupted .
So his choices suffered later being influenced by sin we dabble in sin and do things we feel aren’t right in life and later we find we’ve corrupted our hearts and minds which makes our choices come from corrupt minds and hearts
Repentance is the key for those
Exactly if a person is given two options that are opposed and is free to choose either and also will be held accountable by God for what they did not what he did through them or what he made then do but the choices they made themselves. Judgement doesn’t make any sense at all of man isn’t choosing good and evil that was set before them in the world.
“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
Romans 2:6-11 NIV
“See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;”
Deuteronomy 30:15 KJV
He’s literally giving them a choice between life and death and bidding them to choose life.
“This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live”
Deuteronomy 30:19 NIV
our Will is free until we give ourselves to something or someone else’s .
I was reading about pornography addiction recently there were ten twenty somethings that had been addicted to watching porn since they were young teens. One was talking and said “ I never wanted the perverted things I want now until I watched them over and over and imagined and what it felt like ect
you could listen to his story and watch as his Will became more and more corrupt with twisted lusts of the world when he tried to stop he couldn’t it became an addiction which means his Will and desires his drive and motivations were corrupted what his heart and body wanted were corrupted .
So his choices suffered later being influenced by sin we dabble in sin and do things we feel aren’t right in life and later we find we’ve corrupted our hearts and minds which makes our choices come from corrupt minds and hearts
Repentance is the key for those
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As an in the wind, top end ENTP, sincere kudos and respect from me for your rational, well expressed comments Pilgrimshope and Wilson. Definitely the sort of stuff i hoped for when posting this thread, which sadly turned out to be in short supply.
Even more sadly, i think the intellectual development of most people now is much lower than our historical capacity, I noticed serious deterioration of educational standards in schools during the '90's. Think those standards will soon be in free fall society wide, many people are so reactionary now their rationality seems to have gone totally AWOL.
Anyway, back to the actual discussion, i certainly know people have will. Anyone who's seen an irate toddler denied an action or item they really want, knows will exists for sure too. However, as my example shows, free will isn't in our toolkit, we need the cooperation of others for anything which impacts anyone but ourselves. Even those we think of as tyrants can't operate unilaterally, they need the cooperation of others to impose their will. People very much confuse free will and choice too, we do have plenty of agency and every dog/person has many days if we play fair with each other. However, i think only the LORD has free will and am just so grateful he wants to share so much of the joy, wonder and beauty of his existence with us.
Even more sadly, i think the intellectual development of most people now is much lower than our historical capacity, I noticed serious deterioration of educational standards in schools during the '90's. Think those standards will soon be in free fall society wide, many people are so reactionary now their rationality seems to have gone totally AWOL.
Anyway, back to the actual discussion, i certainly know people have will. Anyone who's seen an irate toddler denied an action or item they really want, knows will exists for sure too. However, as my example shows, free will isn't in our toolkit, we need the cooperation of others for anything which impacts anyone but ourselves. Even those we think of as tyrants can't operate unilaterally, they need the cooperation of others to impose their will. People very much confuse free will and choice too, we do have plenty of agency and every dog/person has many days if we play fair with each other. However, i think only the LORD has free will and am just so grateful he wants to share so much of the joy, wonder and beauty of his existence with us.
Hope all's good with you Pilgrimshope, i would describe will as the method of putting our wants, desires, plans etc into action. One can often do so easily if there's very little impact on others, however, most things of consequence for us competes with the needs and desires of others.
I'd say we're really scratch-each-others-backists, we all want fairness when it comes to ourselves after all. Which means we must be fair too.
I'd say we're really scratch-each-others-backists, we all want fairness when it comes to ourselves after all. Which means we must be fair too.
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Yes grace is definately mutual but would you say our “ will” is the thing motivating our actions ?
Sort of is this about man’s “ Will “ being corrupted ?
“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.”
Genesis 6:5-6
is this telling us the condition of mans will at this point ?
Is this close to or associated with our Will ?
“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
Mark 7:21-23 KJV
Our hearts imaginations and desires seem to propel us towards our actions sort of the condition of a persons heart would you say this has anything to do with the state of thier “ will “
Sort of is this about man’s “ Will “ being corrupted ?
“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.”
Genesis 6:5-6
is this telling us the condition of mans will at this point ?
Is this close to or associated with our Will ?
“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
Mark 7:21-23 KJV
Our hearts imaginations and desires seem to propel us towards our actions sort of the condition of a persons heart would you say this has anything to do with the state of thier “ will “
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Sorry Pilgrimshope, missed this comment. Yes! I don't see how our will can't be corrupted, even when saved we're still far from perfect. The way we live our lives in these evil times is unnatural and wrong, the system is designed to feed corrupted needs and desires within us, to create competition and enmity with others who should be like brothers and sisters to us etc.
People often think they're exercising free will when they're really acting in the spirit of this corrupt system. I do have a lot of thoughts about this particular theme, the comments section isn't the right place to air them, there has been a lot of trolling on this post.
People often think they're exercising free will when they're really acting in the spirit of this corrupt system. I do have a lot of thoughts about this particular theme, the comments section isn't the right place to air them, there has been a lot of trolling on this post.
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yeah I agree with what your saying but see we’re either going to be acting in good which is designated by agod as the way of life , or evil which he said leads to certain death . The freedom is to choose between good and evil.
see a child isn’t righteous and isn’t wicked they are innocent not knowing even what good or evil is. But as they grow up and become more mature that world system youe talking about that’s designed to corrupt thier heart and mind starts to reach them. The more of this world tbey are exposed to the more opportunity for temptations to come and eventually corrupt thier mind and heart twisting it so that thier desires inside thier mind and heart that drive thier actions , become corrupt rather than being from God through his word that’s also in tbe world available to most anyone.
what im saying is we’re born free not enslaved to anything but in the world as we live here we get corrupted more and more because we engage in sin more and more and eventually the point is we end up in a dungeon of Satan pinned and chained by his Will and not ours nor Gods .
The good thing is by the truth we can be set free of that snare and prison and servitude we chose to follow after and became ensnared by
“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
2 Timothy 2:25-26
We we’re free but then we yielded to sin and became servants of sin rather than God our freedom is when we stick to Jesus the truth sets us free of satans snare within our minds and hearts that corruption and wickedness we partook of and became trapped by and made a captive of satans Will
all I’m trying to say is children aren’t born like that thier hearts are tested through life and eventually all accountable people end up sinning needing remission tbrough Christs sacrifice . But our free Will and choosing to believe satans lie rather than Gods truth is why we became ensnared
We’re born in a world filled with good and evil even though these days the evil seems to be much more prevalent , there’s still good in this world done by people who love others the way zgod created us for . And so mankind’s plight is that we have to choose between a great conflict within us between good and evil because that’s what Adam and Eve caused man to know good and evil and have to decide for themselves rather than just trusting what God told them
awe corrupt ourselves freely and also many times ignorantly not understanding the danger and consumning nature of sin and realizing how very many times God has warned us clearly “ stop going in that direction your going to perish turn and follow me instead and live “
Why would God come preach to people warnings and blessings , promises of we believe ……why would he inform us if we can’t make a choice ? I guess that’s just rhetorical but ot doesn’t make sense to me that we’re just destined by gods will to do good or evil and we don’t get the choice
i believe we do and we end up choosing sin and becoming more and more corrupt and more and more ensnared and need Jesus and the gospel to set us free .
Bit anything I say is just an old fools opinion so always be liberal with the salt
see a child isn’t righteous and isn’t wicked they are innocent not knowing even what good or evil is. But as they grow up and become more mature that world system youe talking about that’s designed to corrupt thier heart and mind starts to reach them. The more of this world tbey are exposed to the more opportunity for temptations to come and eventually corrupt thier mind and heart twisting it so that thier desires inside thier mind and heart that drive thier actions , become corrupt rather than being from God through his word that’s also in tbe world available to most anyone.
what im saying is we’re born free not enslaved to anything but in the world as we live here we get corrupted more and more because we engage in sin more and more and eventually the point is we end up in a dungeon of Satan pinned and chained by his Will and not ours nor Gods .
The good thing is by the truth we can be set free of that snare and prison and servitude we chose to follow after and became ensnared by
“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
2 Timothy 2:25-26
We we’re free but then we yielded to sin and became servants of sin rather than God our freedom is when we stick to Jesus the truth sets us free of satans snare within our minds and hearts that corruption and wickedness we partook of and became trapped by and made a captive of satans Will
all I’m trying to say is children aren’t born like that thier hearts are tested through life and eventually all accountable people end up sinning needing remission tbrough Christs sacrifice . But our free Will and choosing to believe satans lie rather than Gods truth is why we became ensnared
We’re born in a world filled with good and evil even though these days the evil seems to be much more prevalent , there’s still good in this world done by people who love others the way zgod created us for . And so mankind’s plight is that we have to choose between a great conflict within us between good and evil because that’s what Adam and Eve caused man to know good and evil and have to decide for themselves rather than just trusting what God told them
awe corrupt ourselves freely and also many times ignorantly not understanding the danger and consumning nature of sin and realizing how very many times God has warned us clearly “ stop going in that direction your going to perish turn and follow me instead and live “
Why would God come preach to people warnings and blessings , promises of we believe ……why would he inform us if we can’t make a choice ? I guess that’s just rhetorical but ot doesn’t make sense to me that we’re just destined by gods will to do good or evil and we don’t get the choice
i believe we do and we end up choosing sin and becoming more and more corrupt and more and more ensnared and need Jesus and the gospel to set us free .
Bit anything I say is just an old fools opinion so always be liberal with the salt
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and there is not a single person in favor of predestination who denies humans have a will and make choices.
the situation is this:
- original sin
- sin nature
- we choose what we want to choose, freely.
just like a kid will always choose ice cream over broccoli, humans will always choose something over the one true God, unless God intervenes in His grace.
the situation is this:
- original sin
- sin nature
- we choose what we want to choose, freely.
just like a kid will always choose ice cream over broccoli, humans will always choose something over the one true God, unless God intervenes in His grace.
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That sort of comment is pulses and veggies to me, (I'm vegetarian but don't think meat eating is wrong, it's factory farming i have a problem with) however, i do think we can make good choices, it's enacting them that is the problem because we're so fallen.
Also think it probable babies are guaranteed to sin because of the fall? That they become more damaged and corrupted as they develop? And yes, i too think our thoughts might have some agency with God but it's impossible for us to enable the momentum to save us, that only develops and can be sustained, through his mercy and grace. Example being i love the great outdoors and have seen so much beauty and wonder which made me think there must be a God, however, i didn't do anything about it until late last March. Amazingly, i just stopped being a chain smoker and a binge drinker, without any problems, it was strange, in a good way.
Haven't said anywhere near what i'd like to or my comment would be essay length, i do like exchanging thoughts with you Pilgrimshope.
Also think it probable babies are guaranteed to sin because of the fall? That they become more damaged and corrupted as they develop? And yes, i too think our thoughts might have some agency with God but it's impossible for us to enable the momentum to save us, that only develops and can be sustained, through his mercy and grace. Example being i love the great outdoors and have seen so much beauty and wonder which made me think there must be a God, however, i didn't do anything about it until late last March. Amazingly, i just stopped being a chain smoker and a binge drinker, without any problems, it was strange, in a good way.
Haven't said anywhere near what i'd like to or my comment would be essay length, i do like exchanging thoughts with you Pilgrimshope.
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