Titus 3 verses 4-5 ~ When the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
Gospel Confusion...
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Titus 3 verses 4-5 ~ When the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
You can keep repeating the same thing over and over, but it will never change what Paul actually said is his gospel. Not once did he ever declare water baptism as a part of his gospel unto salvation. The baptisms he performed was AFTER salvation had alreacy been bestowed.
Paul's Gospel:
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Period. Nothing said about water baptism.
Even Peter came the realization that salvation came BEFORE anyone was baptized...which is the same Peter who once preached this:
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Later, after learning from Paul, we read this as a change in even Peter's preaching of the Gospel:
Acts 10:45-48
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
So, they were filled with Holy Spirit at that time BEFORE water baptism. Don't see the what is so glaringly obvious? You keep kicking against the rock of truth, and you're only jamming your own toes. Peter preached in Acts 2 that they had to be water baptized to receive the remission of their sins, which HAD to happen before they were saved and received Holy Spirit. Nobody is saved and filled with Holy Spirit BEFORE their sins are remitted today, but back then, it was the other way around.
If you don't see the change, then you are willfully blind and deaf to the truths that are right here in front of your eyes for all to see.
MM
Nowhere in the passage in John 3 is baptism mentioned.
lol naw being born of water and of spirit is mentioned .
“See 1 Peter 1:23...being born again by the word of God.”
right by the word of God who said
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
And who said by his spirit through Peter one of his chosen apostles and sent messengers to all the world
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
Acts 2:38-39 KJV
See what peters saying there how we were born anew by obeying the truth through the spirit just before that verse bro here
“Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
1 Peter 1:22-23, 25 KJV
that single verse thing never pans out it doesn’t just say this
“being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. “
You have to read what they actually were saying not just choose bits of it
I fully agree we’re born through hearing the word of God but we have to actually accept what he said both Lewis and his apostles Peter was one of these people
“And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;”
Luke 6:13 KJV
“until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:”
Acts 1:2 KJV
“And he goeth up into a mountain, and calleth unto him whom he would: and they came unto him. And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach, and to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils: and Simon he surnamed Peter;”
Mark 3:13-16 KJV
“and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things. And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.”
Luke 24:46-49
“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”
Acts 1:8 KJV
“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:19-20 KJV
“And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
……Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
Acts 2:4, 38-39 KJV
It’s hard to discuss with some of you brother you never adress the biblical elephant that’s apparent but just begin pointing to a giraffe that not you saw but it happened to run into some bushes way over there just before I looked
Ps Cameron that last parts just because i thought it was funny
you always have a great sense of humor
Yep thank god for our salvation
Titus 3 verses 4-5 ~ When the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
Look at what you said...we are born again by obeying THROUGH THE SPIRIT. How does one obey through the Spirit unless the Spirit is already in them?Nowhere in the passage in John 3 is baptism mentioned.
lol naw being born of water and of spirit is mentioned .
“See 1 Peter 1:23...being born again by the word of God.”
right by the word of God who said
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
And who said by his spirit through Peter one of his chosen apostles and sent messengers to all the world
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
Acts 2:38-39 KJV
See what peters saying there how we were born anew by obeying the truth through the spirit just before that verse bro here
“Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
1 Peter 1:22-23, 25 KJV
that single verse thing never pans out it doesn’t just say this
“being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. “
You have to read what they actually were saying not just choose bits of it
I fully agree we’re born through hearing the word of God but we have to actually accept what he said both Lewis and his apostles Peter was one of these people
“And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;”
Luke 6:13 KJV
“until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:”
Acts 1:2 KJV
“And he goeth up into a mountain, and calleth unto him whom he would: and they came unto him. And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach, and to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils: and Simon he surnamed Peter;”
Mark 3:13-16 KJV
“and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things. And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.”
Luke 24:46-49
“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”
Acts 1:8 KJV
“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:19-20 KJV
“And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
……Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
Acts 2:4, 38-39 KJV
It’s hard to discuss with some of you brother you never adress the biblical elephant that’s apparent but just begin pointing to a giraffe that not you saw but it happened to run into some bushes way over there just before I looked
Ps Cameron that last parts just because i thought it was funny
Nope I said obeying the truth
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
John 8:31-32 KJV
Through the spirit
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
….Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.”
John 6:63, 68-69 KJV
the truth through the spirit
“Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
John 18:
the apostles were speaking by his spirit from what Jesus already had said in the gospel.
“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.”
John 4:24-26 KJV
This is truth and spirit like everything he preaches when he came to dwell among us and witness the truth to chosen witnesses called apostles who would then be sent out to preach the fospem and baptize the people for remission of sins in his name the result of the true gospel is salvation for those who believe …..
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16
“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.”
John 4:24-26 KJV
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63
“Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.”
John 7:16-17
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
John 8:31-32 KJV
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
John 12:48-50
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:19-20 KJV
Probably not even a dent but I’m sorry bro it’s hard for me to discuss because to me anyways ot seems so plain and clear it’s impossible to miss that baptism for remission of sins in his name is a basic and fundamental doctrine in Christ and the gospel and it’s something that is done in water
would be harder for me to somehow ignore and omit all the things taught about baptism for remission of sins than to just accept it like I have
Yep, Pauls was the same as Peters!!
Do you have any idea of what gospel Paul is referring to in 1 Cor 15??? The same one he preached in Acts 19.
Paul was speaking to HIS CHURCH WAS YOU THERE TO HEAR IT???
He declared it, he preached it, you CLAIM to have received it, that you stand on, which you are saved by UNLESS HE PREACHED IT IN VAIN.
If YOU KNOW WHAT THAT gospel was you would see water baptizm!!!!!!!!
AMEN as we can see, its' JESUS who fills us with the Holy Ghost WHEN HE WANTS TO!!
AND YOU CAN SEE THEY WERE COMMANDED TO BE BAPTIZED, COMMANDED. Peter was sent to save them he knew BOTH WERE REQUIRED.
As we can tell, and I never said otherwise. BOTH are required and who cares what order they come in as long as both take place.
Acts 4 FIRST, it does not say when they were baptized in JESUS name. I think which means nothing in Acts 41?
Acts 8 Baptized first, DAYS later receiving the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10 Holy Ghost then baptized the same day.
Acts 19 Baptized and Paul laid hands on them and received.
Thank you for sharing do you see now?
One needs to be very careful that historical passages such as those in Acts
are understood in light of doctrinal passages in the gospels and epistles,
because the events in Acts were transitioning from the OT to the NT
per Hebrews, especially Heb. 7:18-10:1, and Romans, especially Rom. 1:16-8:1,
which indicate that the Gospel is best defined in Acts 16:30-31, and that
WB (Acts 16:33) may follow salvation as an appropriate way of portraying
the atonement (Rom. 6:4), although it is optional rather than required,
comparable to physical circumcision (PC) following spiritual faith (SF)
in the Abrahamic tradition (Rom. 2:25-29, 3:21-26 & 4:1-17).
Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."
If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions NINE different times in each of these complete statements *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.
John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
So, if he who believes will be saved then he who believes and is baptized will be saved as well. However, it's the lack of belief that causes condemnation and not the lack of baptism.
The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.
The gospel is a message of grace that is to be received through faith. The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works (including water baptism) to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation.
I follow ALL of HIS word and the foundation is THE MOST IMPORTANT.
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John JESUS with us.
Acts the building of the church.
ALL books after that were letters to churchs with the foundation of the book of Acts.
YOU WILL not find how to be reborn in any of the book after Acts, they are not for the unsaved they are off the mild and on the meat.
We all need to rightly dived the word.
I'm just in the seed bussines, JESUS is the one who gives the increase.
Acts 19 shows Paul talking to people who said they were baptized into John the Baptists baptism, not that of Christ. So, when they heard that, they were baptized into Christ. Again, you're pointing at Paul's earlier ministry where, even then, not one statement was ever made by Paul that water baptism was a precursor to salvation. All the CAPS will not emphasize that into existence where doesn't at all exist in his preaching on the elements of salvation. It's fine to be baptized, but even Peter stated the filling of Holy Spirit before baptism.
All that rhetoric about what Paul did compared to what he taught, you will never be able to confuse water baptism into the equation of Paul's Gospel of salvation in the minds of all others who read your harangues in these forums. You bragged about how much you have dealt with this topic on other websites and with other people, but you apparently didn't encounter someone who can see through the gaping holes in your reasoning and interpretations. Your hermeneutic is bankrupt. The tapestry filled with holes you've woven together in your posts betray an agenda of forcing into the text what clearly isn't there. This post of yours quoted above is a prime example.
The gospel message evolves throughout the New Testament, reflecting progressive revelation and the different audiences and dispensational contexts of each book. Here's an outline of the dissimilarities in the gospel messages from Matthew to Revelation, with a focus on distinctions in content, audience, purpose, and emphasis.
I. Gospels (Matthew–John): The Gospel of the Kingdom
1. Matthew
- Audience: Jews
- Emphasis: Jesus as the King and fulfillment of Messianic prophecy
- Message: “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Matt 4:17)
- Gospel focus: Earthly kingdom promised to Israel
- Requirements: Repentance, water baptism, obedience to the Law (Matt 5–7)
- Audience: Jews
- Emphasis: Jesus as the Servant
- Message: Emphasis on miracles and actions proving Jesus' authority
- Gospel focus: Power of the kingdom and call to discipleship
- Audience: Jews
- Emphasis: Jesus as the Son of Man
- Message: Universal call to repentance
- Gospel focus: Compassion, forgiveness, and reaching out to the marginalized
- Audience: Jews
- Emphasis: Jesus as the Son of God
- Message: “Believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and by believing you may have life” (John 20:31)
- Gospel focus: Eternal life through belief in Jesus
II. Acts: Transition from Kingdom to Grace
1. Acts 1–7 (Peter and the Twelve)
- Audience: Israel
- Message: Jesus is the resurrected Messiah; Israel must repent to receive the Kingdom (Acts 3:19–21)
- Requirement for salvation: Repentance and water baptism unto the remission of sins for salvation (Acts 2:38)
- Gospel type: Continuation of the Kingdom Gospel
- Audience: Gentiles and Jews
- Message: Justification by grace through faith in the death and resurrection of Christ (Acts 13:38–39)
- Requirement: Faith alone (no Law, no circumcision, Acts 15, Gal 2) although practiced, no command for water baptism unto salvation anywhere in the text contrary to the injective claims by those who reject reading scripture for what it says and what it does NOT say
- Gospel type: Gospel of the Grace of God apart from all works of self effort (Acts 20:24)
III. Pauline Epistles (Romans–Philemon): Gospel of Grace
- Audience: Body of Christ (Jew and Gentile in one new man)
- Message: Salvation by grace alone through faith apart from any works (Eph 2:8–9; Rom 3:24–28)
- Content of the Gospel: Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again (1 Cor 15:1–4)
- Emphasis: Justification, sanctification, identification with Christ, heavenly position
- No distinction between Jew and Gentile in Christ (Gal 3:28)
IV. Hebrews–Jude: Gospel to the Circumcision (Jewish Remnant)
- Audience: Hebrew believers (Jews and proselyte Gentiles) facing tribulation and apostasy
- Message: Endurance, faithfulness, and not falling away
- Focus: Jesus as High Priest and fulfillment of the Old Covenant
- Warning passages: Against shrinking back, apostasy (Heb. 6, 10)
- Faith and works for justification (James 2:24)
V. Revelation: Gospel of the Kingdom in the Tribulation
- Audience: Jews to whom the seven letters were written and Tribulation saints (future Israel and Gentile converts)
- Messages:
- Everlasting Gospel (Rev 14:6–7): Fear God, give glory, judgment is coming
- Kingdom Gospel Revitalized: Israel is being prepared to receive her King
- Emphasis: Endurance, overcoming, refusal to take the mark of the beast with salvation as a future reward only through endurance, not sealed by Holy Spirit as is the case today under the Gospel of Grace
- Salvation context: Faith and perseverance (works of effort) in tribulation (Rev 12:17, 14:12)
This is Systematic Theology, not (c)hurch traditions and man-made replacement theology elements.
MM
? You mean Rightly Divide God's Word Of Truth, and observe and take notice of
The Differences: ie:
Many More found here:
Basic Distinctions (14 +) Of Prophecy vs Mystery!
+
[ Update/Additions #’s: (19) (20) (21) (22) (23) (24) ] ( Many many Differences! )
And, Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified In Christ,
And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!!
Amen.
Paul--who was inspired by God--taught that the foundation is Jesus/Christ (1Cor. 3:10-11),
and his epistles include both how to be saved (Rom. 1:16-8:1) and how the saved
should strive for moral maturity/Christlikeness (Phil. 3:12-21).
“shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. “Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."
If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions NINE different times in each of these complete statements *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.
John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
So, if he who believes will be saved then he who believes and is baptized will be saved as well. However, it's the lack of belief that causes condemnation and not the lack of baptism.
The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.
The gospel is a message of grace that is to be received through faith. The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works (including water baptism) to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation.
what is baptism for ? Why did Jesus say whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved?
when you guys introduce the idea that” no one really needs to get baptized god says it’s for remission of sins but it’s not necassary “
thats contrary to faith baotism is a word and act of faith . You should be telling people what baptism is for according to the Bible and what it means rather than insisting and introducing the idea “no one absolutely needs to be baptized “
Have you guys ever done a study biblically on baptism ? Maybe that would help faith is ineffectual if we hear what god said and then insist it’s not that way or insist well we don’t need to do that ….
Men do the dividing, HE is not a respecter of persons.
HE LOVES US ALL THE SAME and is NOT the author of confusion.
There is ONE GOD and ONE gospel.
Have YOU received the Holy Ghost since you have believed????
Notice I didn't ask you what your skin color is, or what country your from!! IT DOES NOT MATTER TO HIM only to you.
By your question, do you mean has someone been indwelt by the Spirit or has someone been baptized with the Spirit?
I don't see a question, but when someone is baptized in the spirit one gets indwelt with it.