Prophesied by Joel...

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Lamar

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that is a presupposition. The fact that the disciples were Baptized before Jesus died and rose again on the third was recorded in scripture and states that Jesus Himself did not baptize anyone.

John 4:1-2
Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples), He left Judea and departed again to Galilee.

That water baptism done doesn't state it was John who did it, but it was assumed in addition, Mathew 28: 19 was said after the resurrection.
I agreed that Jesus did not Himself physically water baptize anyone, His ministry was like John the Baptist with a water baptism for the remission of sins. (Mark 1:4 & Luke 3:3)
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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Yes again the Disciples baptized with Jesus Present and no ,mention of it being done in the name of Jesus . Why?
Because baptism wasn't administered in His name at that time. It was only after Jesus' death, burial, resurrection and glorification that everyone was commanded to be baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin in association with His sacrifice. Again, note Jesus' prophecy in Luke 24:47. He said repentance and remission of sin (water baptism connection) would be preached in his name in all nations beginning in Jerusalem. What Jesus prophesied began as He said it would in Jerusalem and is still being carried into all nations:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:36-38
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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Do you agree with the points made. or not?

"John's baptism of repentance differed from the NT baptism. Those who submitted to "his" baptism did so as an acknowledgement of their willingness to repent of their sin. Submitting to John's baptism did not mean everyone was personally baptized by him. Also, no one, at that time, knew the coming Messiah would be crucified, buried and resurrect. Whereas those who believe in Jesus' sacrifice obey the New Testament command repent AND submit to water baptism in the name of Jesus for remission of sin.

Consider the Acts 19 account. It reveals those who previously obeyed John's baptism had to be water baptized in the name of Jesus acknowledging belief in His sacrifice. Peter stated that EVERYONE was to be baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin. (Acts 2:38) His comment indicates the apostles would be subject to the NT baptism command regardless of whether they were or were not baptized in the past.

And lastly, it was Jesus who said that repentance and remission of sin would be preached in His name (connection to water baptism in the name of Jesus) in all nations Beginning in Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47, Acts 2:38, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7...) "

Is one who is baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit valid? Yes or no?
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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You did indicate your belief that both are valid. (Posts 246 and 249) However, I was not aware you asked me that question. But since you ask, I don't see how both are valid since the concept is not established at the "mouth" of 2-3 witnesses in scripture.

Also, note there is no conflict between what Jesus' commanded and the actions of the apostles. The apostles obeyed Jesus' command and baptized in His name because In Jesus dwells all of the fulness of the Godhead

So those baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and Holy Spirit are not saved? Correct?
 

Wansvic

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So those baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and Holy Spirit are not saved? Correct?
Since scripture does not reveal baptisms are to be administered that way I can only conclude God's condition has not been met. God has always required specific obedience because His rules when met bring about what He promises.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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Because baptism wasn't administered in His name at that time. It was only after Jesus' death, burial, resurrection and glorification that everyone was commanded to be baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin in association with His sacrifice. Again, note Jesus' prophecy in Luke 24:47. He said repentance and remission of sin (water baptism connection) would be preached in his name in all nations beginning in Jerusalem. What Jesus prophesied began as He said it would in Jerusalem and is still being carried into all nations:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:36-38

Jesus did not say baptize in His name Jesus said He who believes in Him shall be saved. Do you believe that water Baptism saves not the work of the Cross and the Blood of Jesus but the work of the flesh?
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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Since scripture does not reveal that is the correct way of baptizing I don't see
I did not ask you THAT! In your understanding, I am not saved because I was not baptized in the name of Jesus, as you were correct?
 
Jun 24, 2020
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We have no right to manifest any gift on our own.
And NO REAL CAPABILITY to EVEN DO IT "on our own".

"Speaking in tongues", "Prophesy", ANY "Spoken Gift" is EASY to falsify with a little practice!!!! and 1 Cor 14:29 Warns against accepting a "Prophesy" without independent confirmation.

Some years back, my wife was given a "Prophecy" by a person that we didn't know personally, and a few weeks later she was given the EXACT SAME PROPHESY from a totally different, and unconnected source. THAT'S when you start to take it seriously!!!!
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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Jesus did not say baptize in His name Jesus said He who believes in Him shall be saved. Do you believe that water Baptism saves not the work of the Cross and the Blood of Jesus but the work of the flesh?
Baptism in and of itself does not save, however, obedience to God's command of baptism in the name of Jesus is necessary in order to be saved. The initial gospel message reveals it necessary along with belief, repentance, and receiving the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:4-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16) All are essential elements of the NT rebirth that is required for salvation.
 

Wansvic

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I did not ask you THAT! In your understanding, I am not saved because I was not baptized in the name of Jesus, as you were correct?
You can try bullying all you want. I said the bible reveals it to be so. Therefore I believe the word of God. Can't get any clearer than that.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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Baptism in and of itself does not save, however, obedience to God's command of baptism in the name of Jesus is necessary in order to be saved. The initial gospel message reveals it necessary along with belief, repentance, and receiving the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:4-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16) All are essential elements of the NT rebirth that is required for salvation.

is one saved who was not baptized in water in the name of Jesus, yes or no?
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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You can try bullying all you want. I said the bible reveals it to be so. Therefore I believe the word of God. Can't get any clearer than that.
Bully, you mean sift through the baloney. Don't be afraid to tell what you believe. Just say it: those who have not been baptized in the name of Jesus are not saved. right?
 

Lamar

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May 21, 2023
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Jesus did not say baptize in His name Jesus said He who believes in Him shall be saved. Do you believe that water Baptism saves not the work of the Cross and the Blood of Jesus but the work of the flesh?
Terms such as "Work of the Cross" or "Blood of Jesus" do not negate scripture. Water baptism is "for" the remission of sins. (Acts 2:38)

Idioms do not save. Faithful obedience saves,
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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And NO REAL CAPABILITY to EVEN DO IT "on our own".

"Speaking in tongues", "Prophesy", ANY "Spoken Gift" is EASY to falsify with a little practice!!!! and 1 Cor 14:29 Warns against accepting a "Prophesy" without independent confirmation.

Some years back, my wife was given a "Prophecy" by a person that we didn't know personally, and a few weeks later she was given the EXACT SAME PROPHESY from a totally different, and unconnected source. THAT'S when you start to take it seriously!!!!
I'm still trying to locate a comment attributed to my post: "We have no right to manifest any gift on our own."

It's odd because I, too, agree that no one is capable of if on their own.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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Bully, you mean sift through the baloney. Don't be afraid to tell what you believe. Just say it: those who have not been baptized in the name of Jesus are not saved. right?
The bible expresses that obedience to water baptism in the name of Jesus is when one's sin is remitted. You tell me, can a person be saved that still carries the stain of sin?
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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"must be baptized in Jesus' name to be saved."



The central issue with this teaching is the tendency to elevate one verse or formula above the rest of Scripture, especially when it comes to water baptism. We must be careful not to build a theology that ignores the full counsel of God's Word.


The foundational question is: What must I do to be saved?

Scripture consistently answers this with: believe, confess, and repent. As simple as ABC: Accept, Believe, Confess.


Jesus Himself said in John 3:16–18 that whoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

Romans 10:9–11 confirms this: if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.


Water baptism is not the means of salvation but an act of obedience after salvation.

Dead people don’t obey—only those who have been born again do.

Baptism is a public declaration of the internal transformation that has already occurred by faith.
Without that inner change, it’s just a bath—regardless of what name is spoken over the water.


To insist that salvation hinges on the precise wording used during baptism (rather than the heart's response to the gospel) is to misunderstand grace and reduce the gospel to a ritual.

We are saved by grace through faith, not by the specific formula of baptism (Ephesians 2:8–9).


To teach those who were baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is not valid is a judgment not found in the word of GOD and a significant error. it is contradicting what the Lord Himself said.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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The bible expresses that obedience to water baptism in the name of Jesus is when one's sin is remitted. You tell me, can a person be saved that still carries the stain of sin?
No, you are telling me the work of the cross was not enough or sufficient. The Blood of Jesus is the power that makes one clean and removes sin. Paul said that in Roman chapter 5
Romans 5:9: Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.


Ephesians 1:7: In him, we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace.

1 John 1:7: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

Hebrews 9:22: Indeed, under the law, almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins.

Peter said :

1 Peter 1:18-19: Knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.

1 Peter 3:18: For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,519
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"must be baptized in Jesus' name to be saved."



The central issue with this teaching is the tendency to elevate one verse or formula above the rest of Scripture, especially when it comes to water baptism. We must be careful not to build a theology that ignores the full counsel of God's Word.


The foundational question is: What must I do to be saved?

Scripture consistently answers this with: believe, confess, and repent. As simple as ABC: Accept, Believe, Confess.


Jesus Himself said in John 3:16–18 that whoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

Romans 10:9–11 confirms this: if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.


Water baptism is not the means of salvation but an act of obedience after salvation.

Dead people don’t obey—only those who have been born again do.

Baptism is a public declaration of the internal transformation that has already occurred by faith.
Without that inner change, it’s just a bath—regardless of what name is spoken over the water.


To insist that salvation hinges on the precise wording used during baptism (rather than the heart's response to the gospel) is to misunderstand grace and reduce the gospel to a ritual.

We are saved by grace through faith, not by the specific formula of baptism (Ephesians 2:8–9).


To teach those who were baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is not valid is a judgment not found in the word of GOD and a significant error. it is contradicting what the Lord Himself said.
Actually believing it is necessary to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost is elevating one scripture above others. When all relevant scriptures are taken in context they reveal there is no discrepancy. Water baptism is to be in the name of Jesus. People can accept others thoughts about it, but the word is clear.

Peter responded to the question, What must I do?:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles,

Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:36-42
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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No, you are telling me the work of the cross was not enough or sufficient. The Blood of Jesus is the power that makes one clean and removes sin. Paul said that in Roman chapter 5
Romans 5:9: Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.


Ephesians 1:7: In him, we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace.

1 John 1:7: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

Hebrews 9:22: Indeed, under the law, almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins.

Peter said :

1 Peter 1:18-19: Knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.

1 Peter 3:18: For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.
"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." After making this statement Peter commanded Cornelius and others be baptized in the name of the Lord. (Acts 10:43, 48) The scriptures confirm being baptized in the name of Jesus is for the remission of sin.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Actually believing it is necessary to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost is elevating one scripture above others. When all relevant scriptures are taken in context they reveal there is no discrepancy. Water baptism is to be in the name of Jesus. People can accept others thoughts about it, but the word is clear.

Peter responded to the question, What must I do?:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles,

Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:36-42

No, it is not. You think it is and then tell others that you are not saved because of your ill understanding of baptism.