Did Jesus save those who ultimately hated Him?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 12, 2024
960
145
43
#61
No, I am positive the thread creator wasn't proclaiming that Paul went to Hell and neither was I. I merely was showing that Saul hated Christ so much he was killing anyone who was converting to become Christ like [Christian]. That is as hateful as it gets to kill the followers of someone. It takes hate for who they are following which was and is Jesus. So that ultimately means Saul hated Jesus enough to kill those who followed Jesus.
Saul did not ultimately hate Jesus; Saul was ultimately converted.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
3,417
1,978
113
#68
Do you believe that those who ultimately hate Jesus go to heaven or do you believe they go to hell?
Death and Hell are spirits whose regions of authority bear their names. They are not eternal: they have a beginning and meet their end when thrown into the lake of fire. All whose names are not written in the Lamb’s book of life meet the same fate.
 
Jul 3, 2015
64,310
32,707
113
#69
But Saul/Paul was converted. He didn't remain a hater of Jesus, or to use the thread's title, he did not ultimately hat Jesus. Incidentally, he didn't have a name change. Saul was his Hebrew name, and Paul was his Roman name (remember, he had Roman citizenship.)
Acts 13 verse 9 describes the apostle as “Saul, who was also called Paul.” From that verse on, Saul is always referred to in Scripture as “Paul.” The original Saul was a Benjamite and so was Paul, who said in Philippians 3, 3For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh— 4though I myself could have such confidence. If anyone else thinks he has grounds for confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin; a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; as to zeal, persecuting the church; as to righteousness in the law, faultless. 7But whatever was gain to me I count as loss for the sake of Christ. 8More than that, I count all things as loss compared to the surpassing excellence of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ.

:)
 
Sep 17, 2016
8,993
4,632
113
#70
The only sinners Jesus died for are the elect.
Oh okay I understand the foundation you are coming from. So you believe that Jesus only died for the elect because God chose who would be saved. But that contradicts other verses like,

1 Timothy 2:3-4
English Standard Version

3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

John 12:32 ESV
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

Romans 1:20 ESV
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.


John 3:16
English Standard Version

16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 11:6 ESV
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

God desires and draws all people so either He is powerless to save all or there is a condition. The condition is hinged on faith and belief. The drawing is the Holy Spirit nudges or gifting just enough faith so that all are without excuse. Just enough so that there is never a true atheist. They at some point must reject the truth. They at some point choose not to believe the truth but rather follow a lie. They reject the Spirit and invitation for all who will believe.
 
Dec 12, 2024
960
145
43
#71
Death and Hell are spirits whose regions of authority bear their names. They are not eternal: they have a beginning and meet their end when thrown into the lake of fire. All whose names are not written in the Lamb’s book of life meet the same fate.
Hell never ends in the lake of fire.
 
Dec 12, 2024
960
145
43
#72
Oh okay I understand the foundation you are coming from. So you believe that Jesus only died for the elect because God chose who would be saved. But that contradicts other verses like,

1 Timothy 2:3-4
English Standard Version

3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

John 12:32 ESV
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

Romans 1:20 ESV
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.


John 3:16
English Standard Version

16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 11:6 ESV
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

God desires and draws all people so either He is powerless to save all or there is a condition. The condition is hinged on faith and belief. The drawing is the Holy Spirit nudges or gifting just enough faith so that all are without excuse. Just enough so that there is never a true atheist. They at some point must reject the truth. They at some point choose not to believe the truth but rather follow a lie. They reject the Spirit and invitation for all who will believe.
Only the elect ever truly believe in Jesus.
 
Jun 30, 2015
26,318
14,209
113
#73
Well, Jesus said:

“"And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’ "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:” (Mt 25:40-41 NKJV)
Exactly; hell was prepared for the devil and his angels. By implication, that faithless humans are sent there is secondary.
 
Oct 24, 2012
17,732
791
113
#76
Those who ultimately hate Jesus will not be saved no matter what. Heaven is better than those.
Those that choose to not believe consciously, as all will have had the chance to choose and be new in God Father' Spirit and Truth and love all, even those in unbelief to God as well
 
Dec 12, 2024
960
145
43
#77
Death and Hell are spirits whose regions of authority bear their names. They are not eternal: they have a beginning and meet their end when thrown into the lake of fire. All whose names are not written in the Lamb’s book of life meet the same fate.
1747788965984.jpeg
 
Oct 24, 2012
17,732
791
113
#78
They are those who ultimately hate Jesus.
In other words, are you saying these that hate Jesus are in unbelief to Jesus?
And each person in themselves know whether or not they believe God in risen Son or not
For all will know and yet not all will believe, otherwise, I would not see go away to some, and say go away, "I" never knew you
 
Dec 12, 2024
960
145
43
#79
In other words, are you saying these that hate Jesus are in unbelief to Jesus?
And each person in themselves know whether or not they believe God in risen Son or not
For all will know and yet not all will believe, otherwise, I would not see go away to some, and say go away, "I" never knew you
Hating Jesus Christ is gaining the devil by default.