You do seem to enjoy attempting zingers in your comments, akin to one-upmanship.
Actually, Systematic Theology is not at all simplistic nor reactive.
MM
Loss of salvation???
- Thread starter gratefuloneson
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
You do seem to enjoy attempting zingers in your comments, akin to one-upmanship.
Actually, Systematic Theology is not at all simplistic nor reactive.
MM
Ok. Was just trying to wrap my mind around what you were saying in relation to what's written. I'm glad you clarified.
Thanks
MM
Nobody needs to teach you what to believe concerning what you have learned from a God-appointed teacher.
Ephesians 4:11-13
But, you go your own merry way...
Never learning what you can not teach yourself.
And, able to maintain a secure feeling you desire about what you believe, because no one can tell you different.
Keep in mind. they needed a teacher to tell them that!
The teacher they were learning from!
To my recollection the former Pope said something akin to that. Jews saved without believing in Jesus.
He also said that of atheists too.
Grace was always God's the modus operandi throughout the OT...
Just utilized differently with Jews, who did not become a new creation in Christ.
"But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD."
Genesis 6:8
Then Moses said to the Lord, “See, You say to me, ‘Bring up this people.’
But You have not let me know whom You will send with me.
Yet You have said, ‘I know you by name, and you have also found
grace in My sight." Exodus 33:12
grace and peace .............
Holy Spirit, the Anointing, He is the God-appointed Teacher of us all. All others:
Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
The basis of comparison is staggeringly simple to understand, and positing otherwise is sheer folly.
MM
Amen. The mystery doctrine.
It is a tedious task(line upon line precept upon precept) to discern from the different blessings and functions of the OT saints and the Church AFTER salvation.
Logic wins....
Or, not hearing the Holy Spirit on the same level of maturity.
God is patient and merciful.....
Nothing to be ashamed of.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
The Greek word ametamelētos means unregretted. The Lord does not take back His salvation, given that it is a gift.
2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
This obviously doesn't apply to unbelievers, but only to believes who, through their actions and/or words fall into the category of unbelief, they are still saved.
Although there are some out there who don't like this, and will cast around all manner of interpretations that don't at all conform to proper hermeneutics, they will deny God saving backsliders and even those who slide back into unbelief...if there ever are such people. They will demand there are many people in that category, even though they can't name any and provide proof of their claim about others or even themselves. Their denials, be they ever so unintentional, for the sanctifying power of the Lord in each life that He saves, the hatred some have for those who aren't as "good" as they through exertions of their efforts for allegedly "maintaining" their salvation, which is works-based no matter how much sugar they place upon themselves, they will surely harangue against the idea of salvation even of those who aren't as good as they.
What a pathetic travesty they are indeed.
MM
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
The Greek word ametamelētos means unregretted. The Lord does not take back His salvation, given that it is a gift.
2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
This obviously doesn't apply to unbelievers, but only to believes who, through their actions and/or words fall into the category of unbelief, they are still saved.
Although there are some out there who don't like this, and will cast around all manner of interpretations that don't at all conform to proper hermeneutics, they will deny God saving backsliders and even those who slide back into unbelief...if there ever are such people. They will demand there are many people in that category, even though they can't name any and provide proof of their claim about others or even themselves. Their denials, be they ever so unintentional, for the sanctifying power of the Lord in each life that He saves, the hatred some have for those who aren't as "good" as they through exertions of their efforts for allegedly "maintaining" their salvation, which is works-based no matter how much sugar they place upon themselves, they will surely harangue against the idea of salvation even of those who aren't as good as they.
What a pathetic travesty they are indeed.
MM
I would suggest we need to be a bit careful about pulling phrases and ideas from one verse into another unrelated verse and making a conclusion.
In other words, I do not think that one can take a phrase from Ephesians 2:8 - "it (salvation) is the gift of God" and then insert it in another verse that uses the same word in a different context: that is = Romans 11:29 - ". . . the gifts and calling of God are without repentance" - and thus we come to the conclusion that "the Lord does not take back His salvation, given that it is a gift."
Using that approach I could quote I Cor. 7:17:
"But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches."
And then I could insert that into Romans 11:29 and I have that God has called everyone and this cannot be taken back, and so everyone will be saved. (Now I surely do not believe this false conclusion I came to, but I am just making a point)
If one wants to prove a doctrine (such as eternal security), then it needs to be clearly stated and understood in the context of the verse and passage, not pieced together from scattered verses.
The correct approach is to study Ephesians 2:8 in its context and its meaning: it clearly says salvation is a gift from God and is by grace through faith, and not be works. Romans 11:29 comes just after Paul was talking about "Israel" and the salvation that will come to her.
Why not?
Sounds like you are determined to make believers think they can lose their salvation.
Within Systematic Theology, it's well known that many, many statements throughout the scriptures, couched within various contexts, can be and are universally true, therefore not constrained by the context(s). Those who try to limit many phrases and statements as being constrained by context, they end up creating FAR more problems for themselves when trying to explain such limitations. If you believe I violated contextual constraint, then please be more precise by showing such violation through targeted explanation. Generally referencing what you consider to be scattered verses, that proves nothing.
Thanks for whatever you may provide.
MM
People can lose faith when they are Saved by Christ. It happens.
The glorious reality and eternal irrevocable truth is, God will never let loose a one of us who are in his Saving grace.
.