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Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Under conviction you cried out to God to change you. Did you come to the point of view later that He already had since you were 4th soil or changed heart before conviction?

You came as you were, and God did the transforming pre-conviction?

Repeated question: What was your thinking about God before you received or accepted or heard depending upon what version of the parable you want to use?
Sure I believe God was already at work in me, both changing my heart and drawing me to Himself, before I realized what was taking place. In fact, I didn't realize what had transpired until I began reading scripture. What I was sure of was I was a sinner and needed to have the burden of my sins lifted from me. And that only God could do this.
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
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Sure I believe God was already at work in me, both changing my heart and drawing me to Himself, before I realized what was taking place. In fact, I didn't realize what had transpired until I began reading scripture. What I was sure of was I was a sinner and needed to have the burden of my sins lifted from me. And that only God could do this.
More clearly, did you believe in God before your conviction about Jesus?
 
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He marvels at their unbelief. (Mark 6:6)
He expresses a willingness despite their unwillingness. (Matt 23:37)
He rebukes them for rejecting the purpose God had for them. (Luke 7:30)
He doesn’t wish that any perish but all to repent and live (Ezk 18:31-32)
He holds out His hands to the weak and the unwilling (Rom 10:21; Matt 11:28-30)

The system is just theistic determinism wrapped up in palatable language to make the difficult pill go down more easily.

The internet will slowly kill the doctrines of TULIP because there is sound exegesis and hermeneutics to be found in many places.

People can trust God's self-revelation in Scripture and the person and work of Christ.
Best not to attack and supplant it with pagan philosophical presuppositions of determinism.
You just proved you know not a thing of the scriptures. Not one thing.

 

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I believed God existed. I hadn't believed into the Lord Jesus Christ. I knew things about God, but I didn't know Him personally and intimately.

Philippians 3 verse 3; Colossians 2 verse 11; Romans 2 verse 29b ~ For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh. You were also circumcised, in the putting off of your sinful nature, with the circumcision performed by Christ and not by human hands. Circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.
 
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Righteousness Of Christ ~ “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.” You were dead in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. The Son gives life to whom He is pleased to give it. If Christ is in you, your spirit is alive because of righteousness. We put on the righteousness of Christ.
 
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Only those chosen by God and born again can believe in Christ as Savior. That you think you covered and changed it somehow does not override scripture, but it figures you would think so, I, however, disagree, and think you do not remember it correctly. Do you see yourself as being superior to scripture? Really?
I think there are more UR promoters here than we know.
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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He marvels at their unbelief. (Mark 6:6)
I'm only going to go through these once for you - not turning it into a career endeavor.

[Mar 6:6 KJV] 6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

They should have believed given that they saw it first-hand, yet they didn't, why? Because they did not have the Holy Spirit in order they believe. So, that confirms, not refutes, my point.

He expresses a willingness despite their unwillingness. (Matt 23:37)
[Mat 23:37 KJV] 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not!

That verse is speaking of the OC Jewish religious infrastructure, being typified by Jerusalem - that God would leave it desolate - that it would not be used by Him to convey His true gospel message as He did/does with/by the true Church. It does not mean that God desired to save people, but they just refused to cooperate with Him, if that's your point,

[Jer 7:34 KJV] 34 Then will I cause to cease from the cities of Judah, and from the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride: for the land shall be desolate.

He rebukes them for rejecting the purpose God had for them. (Luke 7:30)
[Luk 7:29-30 KJV]
29 And all the people that heard [him], and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

The hearing of those "that heard", was spiritual hearing with spiritual ears, not human hearing with human ears. The Pharisees
and lawyers, without spiritual hearing, rejected the council of God. Those that "heard" had the Holy Spirit to hear spiritually.

[Mat 13:16 KJV]
16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

He doesn’t wish that any perish but all to repent and live (Ezk 18:31-32)
That was for the Old Covenant (OC). The OC was works based, of which, choosing was one of its required works. It was an earthly covenant, not heavenly in essence. The New Covenant (NC), on the other hand, is eternal and has no works nor choices associated to it whatsoever as God had accomplished all on the behalf of those whom He had chosen for the NC. The stipulations of the NC are listed in the following verses - those stipulations being there are none for man, only for God - that He did it all - and those He chose for it do nothing.

[Heb 8:9-10, 12-13 KJV]
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: ...
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.

He holds out His hands to the weak and the unwilling (Rom 10:21; Matt 11:28-30)
Rom 10:21, is OC.

In Matt 11:25 we are told that God reveals Christ to His chosen; for all others Christ is hidden. Only those to whom Christ is revealed, find rest in Him. Those of Mat 11:28-29, were those whom Christ was/are revealed to.

[Mat 11:25 KJV]
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.


28 Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke [is] easy, and my burden is light.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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Okay, you can ignore those five Scriptures,
but where are five supporting your point for me to do likewise?
You are linking a verse that teaches why some could not hear with verses that concern God not being a respecter of people.
If you look closely at verses that deal with God not being a respecter of persons, you will find He is simply referring to all groups of people. This is what Peter learns at the home of Cornelius. They could not be forbidden baptism because they were Gentiles given that the same Spirit that fell upon him and others the day of Pentecost just fell upon the members of Cornelius's household.

This is an example of God not being a respecter of persons. This has nothing to do with why people don't believe. There is nothing to reconcile between these 2 truths.
 

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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They should have believed given that they saw it first-hand, yet they didn't, why? Because they did not have the Holy Spirit in order they believe. So, that confirms, not refutes, my point.
Just forcing in determinism into the text, pretty much the same for the entire post.

"they could not believe because God did not give them the belief" aka TULIP doctrine. "
 
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You are linking a verse that teaches why some could not hear with verses that concern God not being a respecter of people.
If you look closely at verses that deal with God not being a respecter of persons, you will find He is simply referring to all groups of people. This is what Peter learns at the home of Cornelius. They could not be forbidden baptism because they were Gentiles given that the same Spirit that fell upon him and others the day of Pentecost just fell upon the members of Cornelius's household.

This is an example of God not being a respecter of persons. This has nothing to do with why people don't believe. There is nothing to reconcile between these 2 truths.
No, this is an example of not understanding that God does not show favoritism both corporately and individually.
 

lrs68

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Dec 30, 2024
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Example of 2 Doctrines in action:

1. A man gets up daily and stands at the busiest corner and proclaims to all people that they need Jesus and to repent of their sins.


2. A man gets up daily and stands at the busiest corner and watches as many people passes by while thinking if God is going to save them He will so I don't need to be a witness for God.


Which example, 1 or 2, is doing the Will and Works of God?

Which one is God most pleased with?