What is your view of Ezekiel's Temple?

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Jan 15, 2025
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#1
Ezekiel's temple was never built, and the New Jerusalem does not have a temple, except God Himself (Rev. 21:22). Some people think it is a millennial temple, but Ezekiel 43:7 says it is where God will dwell forever, so it doesn't seem like something temporary before the New Jerusalem comes. I think the only way to reconcile Ezekiel's temple with the New Testament is to understand it symbolically, especially since it prescribes sin offerings (Ezekiel 40:39; 42:13; 43:19, 21, 22, 25, 27; 44:29; 45:17, 19, 22, 23, 25; 46:20), which are no longer required (Heb. 10:18). But what does it symbolize?

I can think of one thing peculiar about Ezekiel's temple when I consider the exits and entrances (Ezekiel 43:11), that many words are spent describing gates and walls preventing unauthorized access. Gates and walls are exactly what we see in the New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:12-15, 21, 25; 22:14). Nothing that defiles can enter it (Rev. 21:27). Also, the temple and the city in Ezekiel 48:30-35 are merged into the New Jerusalem when God dwells with men (Rev. 21:3).

What do you think?
 
Oct 24, 2012
17,729
789
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#2
Ezekiel's temple was never built, and the New Jerusalem does not have a temple, except God Himself (Rev. 21:22). Some people think it is a millennial temple, but Ezekiel 43:7 says it is where God will dwell forever, so it doesn't seem like something temporary before the New Jerusalem comes. I think the only way to reconcile Ezekiel's temple with the New Testament is to understand it symbolically, especially since it prescribes sin offerings (Ezekiel 40:39; 42:13; 43:19, 21, 22, 25, 27; 44:29; 45:17, 19, 22, 23, 25; 46:20), which are no longer required (Heb. 10:18). But what does it symbolize?

I can think of one thing peculiar about Ezekiel's temple when I consider the exits and entrances (Ezekiel 43:11), that many words are spent describing gates and walls preventing unauthorized access. Gates and walls are exactly what we see in the New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:12-15, 21, 25; 22:14). Nothing that defiles can enter it (Rev. 21:27). Also, the temple and the city in Ezekiel 48:30-35 are merged into the New Jerusalem when God dwells with men (Rev. 21:3).

What do you think?
I see it is God Father and Son living in people and through people in the same love and mercy given us by Son's willingness to do Father's will over any self will of the flesh we all are first born in. To see John 4:23-24, how this Love of God is for us all to love all in truth and mercy for example seeing Romans 2:1-4 after reading Romans 1 first. To read 1 John 1, then 2 to put the whole of it all to see and die to self and be born again in God too, Read Phil. 1-3 thank you
The born new, Born again kids given them from Daddy, Papa, Father in risen Son for them are the New Temple each being taught new in Father's Love and mercy given them through Son Jesus for them to be new in love and mercy to all sincerely, not faking it, thank you
Seeing, to glory in all those faking and those as sincere, the risen Son gets preached and any evil using Jesus for any self gain will get revealed as many will see to believe and believe, these that do not stop belief, get eventually set free, it has been a long drive off a short pier for me, and God has never forsaken me, even though I deserve to get forsaken by God. thanks each, chooses for self to be new in love and mercy too or not, and no more accusing or excusing thank you
I am no better than any other flesh person ever.
 

Hakawaka

Well-known member
Jul 1, 2021
528
306
63
#3
It will never be physically built the way it is, for two reasons:

1. Christ is the temple today.
2. This is written before the second temple: Ezekiel 43:10-11
3. The measurements are impossible.

I take it as talking about the true temple in a spiritual way, or just Israel's failure to humble themselves when given the vision by Ezekiel.

Anything animal sacrifices related and I take the view of "NOPE NO WAY NO NO NO" because I feel and cannot help but feel it is trampling on the blood of Jesus to have that going on in a millennium. And many others do so as well, but sadly because of dispensationalism this view is extremely popular today along with all of its side entrés
 
Oct 24, 2012
17,729
789
113
#4
It will never be physically built the way it is, for two reasons:

1. Christ is the temple today.
2. This is written before the second temple: Ezekiel 43:10-11
3. The measurements are impossible.

I take it as talking about the true temple in a spiritual way, or just Israel's failure to humble themselves when given the vision by Ezekiel.

Anything animal sacrifices related and I take the view of "NOPE NO WAY NO NO NO" because I feel and cannot help but feel it is trampling on the blood of Jesus to have that going on in a millennium. And many others do so as well, but sadly because of dispensationalism this view is extremely popular today along with all of its side entrés
I find truth and evil mixed in sayings from others, am learning truth over errors in readings from others, movies about things like the series Lucifer, Super Natural, the Walking Dead
I look for Gold Nuggets such as from Bruce Almighty I got this from God when. Bruce asked God in the movie (Morgan Freedman) playing God in the Movie
When Bruce asked
"How can I get anyone to love me, unless I take away their free will"?
I saw, see why God does not take away free will, otherwise if ever do that, take away free will This would say God does not love all as God has been saying God does love all from day one in the fall of the first Adam. seeing now to be aware and know right from wrong. I personally choose right over wrong and will not force anyone to see as I do, even as I see God loves all. That is each person's call and I have been through many troubles also. Now, I glory in God through it all, yes even win adversities, yet not right away, yet see to remain in humility and be safe in /Father and Son as Won for me and all others too, thank you
 

MrE

Active member
Jan 26, 2023
458
237
43
#5
Ezekiel's temple was never built, and the New Jerusalem does not have a temple, except God Himself (Rev. 21:22). Some people think it is a millennial temple, but Ezekiel 43:7 says it is where God will dwell forever, so it doesn't seem like something temporary before the New Jerusalem comes. I think the only way to reconcile Ezekiel's temple with the New Testament is to understand it symbolically, especially since it prescribes sin offerings (Ezekiel 40:39; 42:13; 43:19, 21, 22, 25, 27; 44:29; 45:17, 19, 22, 23, 25; 46:20), which are no longer required (Heb. 10:18). But what does it symbolize?

I can think of one thing peculiar about Ezekiel's temple when I consider the exits and entrances (Ezekiel 43:11), that many words are spent describing gates and walls preventing unauthorized access. Gates and walls are exactly what we see in the New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:12-15, 21, 25; 22:14). Nothing that defiles can enter it (Rev. 21:27). Also, the temple and the city in Ezekiel 48:30-35 are merged into the New Jerusalem when God dwells with men (Rev. 21:3).

What do you think?
The temple is you. If only Moses had understood this, human history and religion alike would look much different today.
 
Sep 2, 2020
15,512
6,288
113
#6
Ezekiel's temple was never built, and the New Jerusalem does not have a temple, except God Himself (Rev. 21:22). Some people think it is a millennial temple, but Ezekiel 43:7 says it is where God will dwell forever, so it doesn't seem like something temporary before the New Jerusalem comes. I think the only way to reconcile Ezekiel's temple with the New Testament is to understand it symbolically, especially since it prescribes sin offerings (Ezekiel 40:39; 42:13; 43:19, 21, 22, 25, 27; 44:29; 45:17, 19, 22, 23, 25; 46:20), which are no longer required (Heb. 10:18). But what does it symbolize?

I can think of one thing peculiar about Ezekiel's temple when I consider the exits and entrances (Ezekiel 43:11), that many words are spent describing gates and walls preventing unauthorized access. Gates and walls are exactly what we see in the New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:12-15, 21, 25; 22:14). Nothing that defiles can enter it (Rev. 21:27). Also, the temple and the city in Ezekiel 48:30-35 are merged into the New Jerusalem when God dwells with men (Rev. 21:3).

What do you think?
Look at revelation regarding the city he sees high atop the mountains with the river of life ect

“And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen this? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river. Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other. Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭47:6-9, 12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

MrE

Active member
Jan 26, 2023
458
237
43
#7
Look at revelation regarding the city he sees high atop the mountains with the river of life ect

“And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen this? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river. Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other. Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭47:6-9, 12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬
From this alignment, would you agree that the things 'the angel' showed to John were the same things that Ezekiel had been shown by "the Lord?"
 
Sep 2, 2020
15,512
6,288
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#8
From this alignment, would you agree that the things 'the angel' showed to John were the same things that Ezekiel had been shown by "the Lord?"
Absolutely some of them yes , just from a different more distant perspective seven hundred appx years prior to johns vision. Also zechariah , Daniel , Hosea Joel ect saw many of the things John did but from a different note distant perspective.

i sometimes wonder about this part and how it may correlate

“I lifted up mine eyes again, and looked, and behold a man with a measuring line in his hand. Then said I, Whither goest thou? And he said unto me, To measure Jerusalem, to see what is the breadth thereof, and what is the length thereof.”
‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11:1‬ ‭

“And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then of course ezekeil has a few chapters regarding the measurements of the temple he sees in the high form of a city John also sort of has the same experience

“And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north; where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭8:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭40:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s called “ apocalypse “ the form of writing the Hebrew prophets used is now called “apocalyptic” because of how that works in the Bible the ot and new always seem to have a figure and then a reality the temple on earth for instance in the old was just a pattern of what Moses was shown in the cloud .
 

MrE

Active member
Jan 26, 2023
458
237
43
#9
Absolutely some of them yes , just from a different more distant perspective seven hundred appx years prior to johns vision. Also zechariah , Daniel , Hosea Joel ect saw many of the things John did but from a different note distant perspective.

i sometimes wonder about this part and how it may correlate

“I lifted up mine eyes again, and looked, and behold a man with a measuring line in his hand. Then said I, Whither goest thou? And he said unto me, To measure Jerusalem, to see what is the breadth thereof, and what is the length thereof.”
‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11:1‬ ‭

“And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then of course ezekeil has a few chapters regarding the measurements of the temple he sees in the high form of a city John also sort of has the same experience

“And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north; where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭8:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭40:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s called “ apocalypse “ the form of writing the Hebrew prophets used is now called “apocalyptic” because of how that works in the Bible the ot and new always seem to have a figure and then a reality the temple on earth for instance in the old was just a pattern of what Moses was shown in the cloud .
Forget the 700 year differential. In heavenly terms, the timeline is minimized. They all see the same thing, albeit as you say from different perspectives and vantage points. The man with the measuring rod is the same in each instance, making fair assessments at different moments in time. The angel in one vision is the Lord in another. The temple is the temple, the throne is the throne and so on.
 
Oct 24, 2012
17,729
789
113
#10
The temple is you. If only Moses had understood this, human history and religion alike would look much different today.
that to me is where dispensationalism takes part in
God saw all, has allowed all for a reason. If I do not go through Hell, how will I really know and become stronger in seeing through the evil fire unto God's Holy fire
Will any of us? Or will we each continue to decide for ourselves, and not seek Father out?
John 4:23-24
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
15,512
6,288
113
#12
Forget the 700 year differential. In heavenly terms, the timeline is minimized. They all see the same thing, albeit as you say from different perspectives and vantage points. The man with the measuring rod is the same in each instance, making fair assessments at different moments in time. The angel in one vision is the Lord in another. The temple is the temple, the throne is the throne and so on.
“Forget the 700 year differential. In heavenly terms, the timeline is minimized.”

“They all see the same thing, albeit as you say from different perspectives and vantage points. “

right that’s what my point is about different times when they saw it thoer perspective fits thoer time and what was happening in it but they all are seeing the same events happen I agree .

what I mean is the earlier prophecies aren’t as revealing as johns because it was further away and other things were being fulfilled in thier time . from the even earlier prophets for instance when Babylon overthrew Jerusalem destroying the temple and made them captive originally so in daniels time

here’s an example of what I mean daniel sees this in aboit 600 bc

“And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. The first was like a lion, …..And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, …..After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭7:3-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He’s seen four beasts with seven heads and ten horns. Now 6-700 yrs later John is explaining the beast he sees and five of its heads have already risen and ruled and fallen one was ruling in johns time and only one of the seven was left to rise ….

john sees

“And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

about when he explains it we find out five of the rulers that are the heads have already come and gone in johns past.

“And there are seven kings: five are fallen,

and one is,

and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the thing is John reveals a lot that Daniel never did because the events had just begun because Babylon and king nebucadnezzar is the first kingdom according to daniels dreams and visions but John lived in the time of Roman emperor Titus and Nero . And so what he’s seeing is for for johns time and tells of things also after .

tbey do see the same things as a macro vision but different parts are highlighted by each im each timeframe ( early prophets , latter messianic prophets , New Testament prophets and apostles like John ) because of thier times and what was happening in thier times in Jerusalem.

There’s really no establishing a timeline with the numbers but within the things they all saw and heard thier perspectives each offers different details and explainations of those same things they saw so it provides a fuller understanding it’s how Hebrew apocalyptic writing style works. Those differing perspectives placed together offer fuller grasp of what’s happening
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
15,512
6,288
113
#13
Forget the 700 year differential. In heavenly terms, the timeline is minimized. They all see the same thing, albeit as you say from different perspectives and vantage points. The man with the measuring rod is the same in each instance, making fair assessments at different moments in time. The angel in one vision is the Lord in another. The temple is the temple, the throne is the throne and so on.
“The man with the measuring rod is the same in each instance, making fair assessments at different moments in time. “

i agree if I’m understanding you correctly and wouldn’t it be John ? Or Ezekiel ?

“And he brought me thither, and, behold, there was a man, whose appearance was like the appearance of brass, with a line of flax in his hand, and a measuring reed; and he stood in the gate.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭40:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what I was wondering bringing that up was is did Ezekiel see John in his vision ?

“And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11:1‬ ‭

It sounds like we might agree at least to some extent
 
Oct 24, 2012
17,729
789
113
#14
I do not know or understand much, if anything, God does as I see God who knows best to go to presently, thanks to Son's done work for all who took away sin in Father's sight, so we can go there without being kicked out or berated as other people do that
Now we can Psalm 100:4, and see from Father, Daddy, PaPa Psalm 103:12 and ask How do I get that Daddy? Will Dad give you a snake or the truth to work through your in trust to see the error, that we the people do not see, and are there in people deceiving people and yet give good gifts to their own children
How much more will PaPa give his children?
Go to Father personally in risen Son and ask, receive and believe Daddy, Father, PaPa. loves us all as said in the Bible 1 John 2:1-27
 
Oct 19, 2024
5,213
1,105
113
USA-TX
#15
Ezekiel's temple was never built, and the New Jerusalem does not have a temple, except God Himself (Rev. 21:22). Some people think it is a millennial temple, but Ezekiel 43:7 says it is where God will dwell forever, so it doesn't seem like something temporary before the New Jerusalem comes. I think the only way to reconcile Ezekiel's temple with the New Testament is to understand it symbolically, especially since it prescribes sin offerings (Ezekiel 40:39; 42:13; 43:19, 21, 22, 25, 27; 44:29; 45:17, 19, 22, 23, 25; 46:20), which are no longer required (Heb. 10:18). But what does it symbolize?

I can think of one thing peculiar about Ezekiel's temple when I consider the exits and entrances (Ezekiel 43:11), that many words are spent describing gates and walls preventing unauthorized access. Gates and walls are exactly what we see in the New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:12-15, 21, 25; 22:14). Nothing that defiles can enter it (Rev. 21:27). Also, the temple and the city in Ezekiel 48:30-35 are merged into the New Jerusalem when God dwells with men (Rev. 21:3).

What do you think?
I agree that it foreshadows or symbolizes heaven, as does the New Jerusalem.
 
Oct 24, 2012
17,729
789
113
#16
I agree that it foreshadows or symbolizes heaven, as does the New Jerusalem.
My Kingdom is not of this world, as he went home and Father came here on Pentecost to live through us, as the Holy Spirit for us, so we be able to stand inn any adversities that we all get, I know I have gotten them and now praise God for allowing me to go through them
not understood to flesh nature, even as the Jail help saw it in Paul and saw a new, where Paul would not complain over troubles, the Jail help decided to choose God too, willingly the key that opens the door to freedom to do right and not wrong anymore, over time in learning truth over error form God, not self or others anymore, at least for me, thanking God for the grace that got me to change also and still in process, thanks
 

MrE

Active member
Jan 26, 2023
458
237
43
#17
“Forget the 700 year differential. In heavenly terms, the timeline is minimized.”

“They all see the same thing, albeit as you say from different perspectives and vantage points. “

right that’s what my point is about different times when they saw it thoer perspective fits thoer time and what was happening in it but they all are seeing the same events happen I agree .

what I mean is the earlier prophecies aren’t as revealing as johns because it was further away and other things were being fulfilled in thier time . from the even earlier prophets for instance when Babylon overthrew Jerusalem destroying the temple and made them captive originally so in daniels time

here’s an example of what I mean daniel sees this in aboit 600 bc

“And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. The first was like a lion, …..And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, …..After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭7:3-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He’s seen four beasts with seven heads and ten horns. Now 6-700 yrs later John is explaining the beast he sees and five of its heads have already risen and ruled and fallen one was ruling in johns time and only one of the seven was left to rise ….

john sees

“And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

about when he explains it we find out five of the rulers that are the heads have already come and gone in johns past.

“And there are seven kings: five are fallen,

and one is,

and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the thing is John reveals a lot that Daniel never did because the events had just begun because Babylon and king nebucadnezzar is the first kingdom according to daniels dreams and visions but John lived in the time of Roman emperor Titus and Nero . And so what he’s seeing is for for johns time and tells of things also after .

tbey do see the same things as a macro vision but different parts are highlighted by each im each timeframe ( early prophets , latter messianic prophets , New Testament prophets and apostles like John ) because of thier times and what was happening in thier times in Jerusalem.

There’s really no establishing a timeline with the numbers but within the things they all saw and heard thier perspectives each offers different details and explainations of those same things they saw so it provides a fuller understanding it’s how Hebrew apocalyptic writing style works. Those differing perspectives placed together offer fuller grasp of what’s happening
This is a good way of looking at it.

Imagine an epic tale. Like a tell-a-vision series in seven parts and in an early episode, as the story is just beginning and barely starting to unfold, you get a foreshadow of things to come. The camera zooms in on some white-bearded prophet, who has his vision of a dystopian future world and in his dream he sees great and terrible things-- and as you watch this movie, you see glimpses and snippets of what he is seeing/dreaming.

And it's daunting. It's a little confusing-- because first of all it's terrible, and because it's incredible, and futuristic-- and you can't really even describe everything you are seeing because you have no context or frame of reference for much of what you are seeing. It's a mix of the familiar with the completely unfamiliar. Such are the experiences of the prophets as recounted in scripture. Over and over and over again. But we get this much, after watching the early episode-- We get that there are going to be seven episodes, and maybe an eighth as a recap-- maybe a ninth, or a tenth- if the producers throw in a way-back episode or two, like a flashback to an earlier story-before-the-story.......... Yet, it's all one story. It's all one series.
 

MrE

Active member
Jan 26, 2023
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#18
Absolutely some of them yes , just from a different more distant perspective seven hundred appx years prior to johns vision. Also zechariah , Daniel , Hosea Joel ect saw many of the things John did but from a different note distant perspective.

it’s called “ apocalypse “ the form of writing the Hebrew prophets used is now called “apocalyptic” because of how that works in the Bible the ot and new always seem to have a figure and then a reality the temple on earth for instance in the old was just a pattern of what Moses was shown in the cloud .

People today speak in terms of the apocalypse and apocalyptic as if it means "destruction" but that is not quite right-- it simply means "a revealing" and John's book, like the others you mention are revelations of those things they saw and experienced. Those things they saw, featured destruction and very dark times prominently, so it's easy to see how it all got conflated. Yet, it's not all doom and gloom by any stretch of the imagination.

Yes-- to your second comment about the duality of heaven and earth. Folks often forget, or simply ignore that the earth and all that is in it is a reflection of those things above. Made in the image of..... on earth, as it is in heaven. But "the reality" is heavenly and spiritual. The image is just that-- a likeness. A facsimile. And while 'the actual' and enduring, eternal truth is spiritual, the copy is a cheap counterfeit. Always less, never quite right-- sometimes completely wrong-- as with that example of Moses you offered.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#19
This is a good way of looking at it.

Imagine an epic tale. Like a tell-a-vision series in seven parts and in an early episode, as the story is just beginning and barely starting to unfold, you get a foreshadow of things to come. The camera zooms in on some white-bearded prophet, who has his vision of a dystopian future world and in his dream he sees great and terrible things-- and as you watch this movie, you see glimpses and snippets of what he is seeing/dreaming.

And it's daunting. It's a little confusing-- because first of all it's terrible, and because it's incredible, and futuristic-- and you can't really even describe everything you are seeing because you have no context or frame of reference for much of what you are seeing. It's a mix of the familiar with the completely unfamiliar. Such are the experiences of the prophets as recounted in scripture. Over and over and over again. But we get this much, after watching the early episode-- We get that there are going to be seven episodes, and maybe an eighth as a recap-- maybe a ninth, or a tenth- if the producers throw in a way-back episode or two, like a flashback to an earlier story-before-the-story.......... Yet, it's all one story. It's all one series.
Yes I can understand that as a good way to see it .
 

MrE

Active member
Jan 26, 2023
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#20
“The man with the measuring rod is the same in each instance, making fair assessments at different moments in time. “

i agree if I’m understanding you correctly and wouldn’t it be John ? Or Ezekiel ?

“And he brought me thither, and, behold, there was a man, whose appearance was like the appearance of brass, with a line of flax in his hand, and a measuring reed; and he stood in the gate.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭40:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what I was wondering bringing that up was is did Ezekiel see John in his vision ?

“And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11:1‬ ‭

It sounds like we might agree at least to some extent
Without wanting to complicate things-- no, I don't think in quite the same terms. John, and Ezekiel are seeing these things "in spirit." They are seeing spiritual things, a spiritual/heavenly "reality" where 'the man' they see, is by nature-- a spiritual man. Sigh. Folks have such a hard time with this, but a spiritual man is not the same as a physical man. Don't trust me on this. Look into it. It's not as if one equals the other. In fact, from the spiritual perspective-- man is a lower form. Incomplete, and even inanimate-- until animated by spirit. I can only offer what I know to be true, and folks are left to their own opinions, but from the spiritual point of view-- the spiritual man is what we would recognize or call 'an angel' or messenger. When John, or Ezekiel, or Zechariah or any other prophet talks about seeing 'a man' in spirit-- it's an angelic being.

So what then is a physical man, as seen from the spiritual perspective? Something lessor. A beast, an animal, a container, a stone, or tree, or house, or vessel. Check me.