Loss of salvation???

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Genez said:
The timeline when spoken.... (After Jesus was resurrected, and was before Pentecost took place. )

​
On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: ​
“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you ​
have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you ​
will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”​
​
Acts 1:4-5​


Do you see the change about baptism types that was to take place?

It took Peter all the way to Acts 11 to finally figure it out.
Up until then, Peter had been thoughtlessly commanding water baptisms.
Then!
He finally remembered the words Jesus spoke to him about water will be replaced by Spirit baptism.

We all have to learn to give up certain things we assumed and took for granted before we are saved.
Click to expand...

The problem is that James also continued the narrative of works-based justification, so the idea of evolutionary understanding in Peter's beliefs, I don't buy that train of thought for what I feel are really good reasons...if I'm understanding what you wrote.

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
The problem is that James also continued the narrative of works-based justification, so the idea of evolutionary understanding in Peter's beliefs, I don't buy that train of thought for what I feel are really good reasons...if I'm understanding what you wrote.

MM
Click to expand...


So? It is all about feelings.

Truth will confront your feelings.
His ways are not your "feelings."


“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,​
neither are your ways my ways,”​
declares the Lord. Isaiah 55:8​


How does your feelings alter the truth Jesus spoke to His disciples?

On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: ​
“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have ​
heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be ​
baptized with the Holy Spirit.” Acts 1:4-5​
​
Even John the Baptist, who by prophecy saw into the future, knew water baptisms were to cease!

And this was his message: “After me comes the one more powerful than I, ​
the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. ​
​
I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” Mark 1:7-8​


Sure, there are lots of Christians today who remain ignorant of that truth, and are dogmatic about the error they follow.
And, so are religious Muslims dogmatic!

Emotionally charged dogmatism does not produce truth.

So, what are we to do with our "feelings" when the Truth contradicts us?

Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wants to come with Me, ​
he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Me. Matthew 16:24​


People who live by how they feel, hate being denied what they feel is right!

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,​
and your ways are not My ways.”​
This is the Lord’s declaration.​
​
​
.​
 
Musicmaster said:
The problem is that James also continued the narrative of works-based justification, so the idea of evolutionary understanding in Peter's beliefs, I don't buy that train of thought for what I feel are really good reasons...if I'm understanding what you wrote.

MM
Click to expand...

James was in effect saying.....

If you say you have genuine faith?
Your faith is not proven genuine until genuine works accompany your life.
And then?
Saying you are a true believer will be JUSTIFIED!

For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, ​
which God prepared in advance for us to do. Ephesians 2:10​
​
​
:coffee::coffee::coffee:
 
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Genez said:
So? It is all about feelings.

Truth will confront your feelings.
His ways are not your "feelings."


“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,​
neither are your ways my ways,”​
declares the Lord. Isaiah 55:8​


How does your feelings alter the truth Jesus spoke to His disciples?

On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: ​
“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have ​
heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be ​
baptized with the Holy Spirit.” Acts 1:4-5​
​
Even John the Baptist, who by prophecy saw into the future, knew water baptisms were to cease!

And this was his message: “After me comes the one more powerful than I, ​
the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. ​
​
I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” Mark 1:7-8​


Sure, there are lots of Christians today who remain ignorant of that truth, and are dogmatic about the error they follow.
And, so are religious Muslims dogmatic!

Emotionally charged dogmatism does not produce truth.

So, what are we to do with our "feelings" when the Truth contradicts us?

Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wants to come with Me, ​
he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Me. Matthew 16:24​


People who live by how they feel, hate being denied what they feel is right!

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,​
and your ways are not My ways.”​
This is the Lord’s declaration.​
​
Click to expand...
​

Grandstanding on the word "feeling" in my statement is not going to win the day for you. I'm sure you got a few snickers and snorts from your friends, which is fine with me. We all need some emotional laughs every now and then, even when they are based upon juvenile nonsense...

So, if Peter had meant spiritual baptism, then he would have stated such given that he appealed to a term they ALL knew was water baptism as that was a historic practice dating back more than 150 years prior.

Additionally, the orthodox Jewish upbringing of my past has no bearing upon what we can understand from the writings of Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles and the one to whom the mystery of the body of Christ was revealed. If you choose to make a deal of it, that's fine. However, I preach the gospel given to Paul because I choose to be under grace rather than to take my chances and hope that the Mosaic Law will justify any of us today. If you think you can be under grace and appeal to works for justification as was written by James to the twelve scattered tribes of Israel, then go for it. I doubt it will avail you anything in the coming judgement, if that is your position in all this, but if it is, do the best you can and we shall see how it pans out.

1 John 2:26-27
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

MM
 
Genez said:
James was in effect saying.....

If you say you have genuine faith?
Your faith is not proven genuine until genuine works accompany your life.
And then?
Saying you are a true believer will be JUSTIFIED!

For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, ​
which God prepared in advance for us to do. Ephesians 2:10​
​
​
:coffee::coffee::coffee:
Click to expand...

You really enjoy injecting into scripture whatever aligns with your dogmas. Again, go for it. Any one of us can make scripture say whatever we so desire, but I will stick to what's actually written if you don't mind.

MM
 
Appeals to things stated by the twelve in relation to salvation from those who were the apostles to Israel and who were still under the Law, you can all now see more clearly the manic confusion it causes when trying to harmonize the Kingdom Gospel with the Gospel of Grace. It leads to utter silliness and sad indifference to rightly dividing the word of truth.

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
Ok. I think perhaps I'm seeing where you're going.

What you quoted from Peter is absolutely true. The difference is that he did not reiterate the elements every time he spoke about Christ and the necessity for faith, just as every element was not reiterated after every mention of forgiveness following animal sacrifice in the Mosaic Law.
MM
Click to expand...

From my readings, every element of salvation was never left out. By Grace through faith in Christ. If salvation for the Jews was different at that time, every verse about their salvation would clearly say it.

So the elements that "seem" to be included.....Need to be scrutinized and studied.
 
How do you explain

Having your name in the book of life, then having it removed.

Once saved and then not saved.

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
 
Saved by Christ alone
A relationship with Christ
Relationships are not forced and made in a way that you can not change your mind.

The heart is able to be decieved.
We are able to walk away from Christ.

It is a day by day walk that requires choice. God dose not force us to love Him.
 
Kroogz said:
From my readings, every element of salvation was never left out. By Grace through faith in Christ. If salvation for the Jews was different at that time, every verse about their salvation would clearly say it.

So the elements that "seem" to be included.....Need to be scrutinized and studied.
Click to expand...

Israel's Kingdom Gospel messages do state the requirement for baptism unto salvation, where ours under the Gospel of Grace do not.

Peter preached what Jesus preached to Israel:

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Paul, on the other hand, said nothing to the Gentiles in any of his epistles for the requirement to be water baptized:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

The plainness and clarity of what is said and what is not said, they speak loud volumes to the depravity in honest dealings with scripture; so much so that some exercise vain attempts at harmonizing in order to back up replacement theology.

MM
 
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Musicmaster said:
Israel's Kingdom Gospel messages do state the requirement for baptism unto salvation, where ours under the Gospel of Grace do not.

Peter preached what Jesus preached to Israel:

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Paul, on the other hand, said nothing to the Gentiles in any of his epistles for the requirement to be water baptized:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

The plainness and clarity of what is said and what is not said, they speak loud volumes to the depravity in honest dealings with scripture; so much so that some exercise vain attempts at harmonizing in order to back up replacement theology.

MM
Click to expand...
I say again, You and I are very ,very close to our doctrines on Israel and the Church and how it is for today. I am STRICTLY talking about salvation and eternal life for all.

Why is "baptism" left out In Mark 16:16 " But he that believeth not shall be damned?"
 
Musicmaster said:
The problem is that James also continued the narrative of works-based justification, so the idea of evolutionary understanding in Peter's beliefs, I don't buy that train of thought for what I feel are really good reasons...if I'm understanding what you wrote.

MM
Click to expand...
James did not continue the idea of works based salvation. There NEVER was one. The calvies and the armies and the catholics continue to twist what James was talking about.

His audience( the 12 tribes) were the epitome of works based. Why would James encourage them to work MORE?
 
Kroogz said:
James did not continue the idea of works based salvation. There NEVER was one. The calvies and the armies and the catholics continue to twist what James was talking about.

His audience( the 12 tribes) were the epitome of works based. Why would James encourage them to work MORE?
Click to expand...
Calvinists don't push works.
 
TMS said:
How do you explain

Having your name in the book of life, then having it removed.

Once saved and then not saved.

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Click to expand...
Studying the book of the living and the book of life does us all good.
 
Kroogz said:
Yeah, I agree. They don't push works.

But, no works puts believers in the hell basket and not really saved......Thus, making it about works. A passive aggressive type thing.
Click to expand...
Calvinists aren't anti-works. They simply believe works have no bearing as a cause for their salvation.
 
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