correct.
Paul laid out the order- saved by grace through faith for good works.
and when James said " faith without works is dead", that was a good complement to what Paul said.
Am I correct with my understanding of this? Faith in Jesus alone = salvation
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correct.
Paul laid out the order- saved by grace through faith for good works.
and when James said " faith without works is dead", that was a good complement to what Paul said.
Romans 10:9
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God.
Acts 16:31
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Galatians 2:21
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Romans 10:13
For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God.
Acts 16:31
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Galatians 2:21
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Romans 10:13
For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Aye Faith Alone does save (Romans 10:9-10, Philippians 3:9, Ephesianss 2:4-9), Faith is synonymous with word believe as well (John 3:16, John 6:40).
People ask is it Grace or Faith?
Breakdown
Grace is that Jesus Did it All At the Cross: Paid it All for Your Sins Once For All Time/ "It Is Finished" and taking your sin, He imparts his Righteousness to you. Grace: Unmerited Favor, Jesus saved you, not your works.
You get this Grace by Faith (Trusting, agreeing, and believing) the Gospel of Grace (above and verses above).
Its why we have the Five Solas
Saved By Grace (Sola Gratia) through Faith (Sola Fide) in Christ Alone (He saves us, Solus Christus) according to the Scriptures Alone (Sola Scriptura) and Glory Be to God Alone (Soli Del Gloria).
There you go.. yes I said that like My Big Fat Greek Wedding lol.
People ask is it Grace or Faith?
Breakdown
Grace is that Jesus Did it All At the Cross: Paid it All for Your Sins Once For All Time/ "It Is Finished" and taking your sin, He imparts his Righteousness to you. Grace: Unmerited Favor, Jesus saved you, not your works.
You get this Grace by Faith (Trusting, agreeing, and believing) the Gospel of Grace (above and verses above).
Its why we have the Five Solas
Saved By Grace (Sola Gratia) through Faith (Sola Fide) in Christ Alone (He saves us, Solus Christus) according to the Scriptures Alone (Sola Scriptura) and Glory Be to God Alone (Soli Del Gloria).
There you go.. yes I said that like My Big Fat Greek Wedding lol.
So in Mark 16 it says this,
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
So then someone has to believe the gospel to be saved, and it's not just in him? Or is believing in him enough and this was just the instructions the Apostles(?) were given? I don't really see how the language in John 3 can mean anything but to believe in him... so, I'm going with that.
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
So then someone has to believe the gospel to be saved, and it's not just in him? Or is believing in him enough and this was just the instructions the Apostles(?) were given? I don't really see how the language in John 3 can mean anything but to believe in him... so, I'm going with that.
The Bible isn't a Chinese buffet where you pick and choose what you want and leave the rest.
This is why I don't believe in OSAS or pre-trib rapture - they only pick some verses that prop up their false doctrines and ignore the rest of the verses in the Bible.
I would just take EVERYTHING the Bible says into consideration. God inspired all of it, so there is no conflict even among verses that seem to contradict each other.
So don't just pick your favorite verses and run with that. Pay attention to the verses that seem to contradict each other and ask God how He harmonizes them together. They actually do harmonize.
The Bible isn't a Chinese buffet where you pick and choose what you want and leave the rest.
This is why I don't believe in OSAS or pre-trib rapture - they only pick some verses that prop up their false doctrines and ignore the rest of the verses in the Bible.
I would just take EVERYTHING the Bible says into consideration. God inspired all of it, so there is no conflict even among verses that seem to contradict each other.
So don't just pick your favorite verses and run with that. Pay attention to the verses that seem to contradict each other and ask God how He harmonizes them together. They actually do harmonize.
Right, that's my attempt to harmonize it, to just go with what it says in John 3, since it disqualifies what Mark 16 is saying, since Mark 16 is saying something extra (that you must believe the gospel and not just in him). I think both things are true, but I suppose that the Apostles were given instructions to do something specific. I don't know how else it can be read.
You're concentrating only on the verses in John 3 and Mark 16?
There are other verses elsewhere that talk about this. I'm talking about the totality of the subject. It's not just those passages.
You're concentrating only on the verses in John 3 and Mark 16?
There are other verses elsewhere that talk about this. I'm talking about the totality of the subject. It's not just those passages.
Ah well, Romans 3:25 says that he (Jesus) is a propitiation set forth by God through faith in his blood. I've been kind of ignoring the implication of these things but I suppose you must believe that Jesus received the punishment for our sins, death. I don't understand how Romans 10:9 in the NIV and ESV can be correct though, it seems to read correctly in the KJV though.
I'm speaking in generalities and not specific verses because then the conversation will just focus on that.
I'm just trying to encourage people to not only look at their favorite verses and ignore the others they don't like.
That's what woke me up to OSAS being false - because before that, I only paid attention to all the soothing verses that prop up that false doctrine. But God laid it on my heart not to ignore the other verses - the warning verses. And when I did, I could no longer accept OSAS as true.
I think we tend to believe in what is false because it's easier - doesn't require Jesus to be our Lord, just our Savior; no dying to self or denying ourselves; and not taking up our cross daily - all of which would require continual submission to the Holy Spirit.
With that said, lot of people don't realize how powerful the Holy Spirit is to help us live up to God's word. And that's what I also want to encourage.
I told God after realizing that OSAS was false that I don't know how I'll be able to live for Him the way He wants. And He laid it on my heart to submit to the Holy Spirit. "Test Him on this," He replied, "and He will prove Himself powerful to you." And the Holy Spirit did!!! Habitual sins were conquered in my life when I submitted to the Holy Spirit - it was amazing! So I have full confidence in the Holy Spirit to live for God!
I love God so much more for all this He has done for us!
I'm speaking in generalities and not specific verses because then the conversation will just focus on that.
I'm just trying to encourage people to not only look at their favorite verses and ignore the others they don't like.
That's what woke me up to OSAS being false - because before that, I only paid attention to all the soothing verses that prop up that false doctrine. But God laid it on my heart not to ignore the other verses - the warning verses. And when I did, I could no longer accept OSAS as true.
I think we tend to believe in what is false because it's easier - doesn't require Jesus to be our Lord, just our Savior; no dying to self or denying ourselves; and not taking up our cross daily - all of which would require continual submission to the Holy Spirit.
With that said, lot of people don't realize how powerful the Holy Spirit is to help us live up to God's word. And that's what I also want to encourage.
I told God after realizing that OSAS was false that I don't know how I'll be able to live for Him the way He wants. And He laid it on my heart to submit to the Holy Spirit. "Test Him on this," He replied, "and He will prove Himself powerful to you." And the Holy Spirit did!!! Habitual sins were conquered in my life when I submitted to the Holy Spirit - it was amazing! So I have full confidence in the Holy Spirit to live for God!
I love God so much more for all this He has done for us!
Why exactly do you think OSAS is not true? I see the argument for it, namely what it says in Hebrews 10:26 and I think another place in Hebrews, but there seems to be staunch argument against the view (that I never really quite understood).
It really makes no difference to the message of the Bible whether Mark 16:16 needs to be included or not because the truth of Mark 16:16 is the same throughout the New Testament. Jesus commanded baptism in His last words to His disciples in Matt 28 :18-19 just before His ascension into heaven. Mark describes a similar scene in His account also just before Jesus’s ascension. Jesus taught Belief and baptism and the conversions in the rest of the New Testament act out that teaching. Read these scriptures.:
Acts 2:38- those Jews already believed when they asked Peter “What must we do?” Peter didn’t tell them to BELIEVE because they already did but he did tell them to repent AND BE BAPTIZED for the remission if sins. So what did those Jews in Acts 2 do? They BELIEVED and were BAPTIZED.
Acts 8- the Samaritans, verse 12 - BELIEVED the things Phillip preached and both men and women were BAPTIZED.
Acts 8:13- Simon the Sorcerer, BELIEVED and was BAPTIZED.
Acts 8:36-38- the eunuch said, “ I BELIEVE that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” And Phillip BAPTIZED him.
Acts 9- Saul of Tarsus- BELIEVED AND IN Acts 22:19 washed away his sins in BAPTISM.
Acts 16: Lydia, BELIEVED (verse 14) and was BAPTIZED ( verse 15).
Acts 16:32- the jailer and his house BELIEVED in verse 32 and were BAPTIZED in verse 33.
Acts 18:8- “And many of the Corinthians hearing, BELIEVED AND WERE BAPTIZED.”
So, you see, even if Mark 16:16 were not in the Bible at all, would make no difference to what is TRUTH or to what the Bible teaches or to proving that you must believe and be baptized to be saved. The SAME THING is taught in at least 8 other scriptures. And I haven’t even mentioned Hebrews 11:6 that says without faith it is impossible to please God or 1 Peter 3:21 that proves that baptism saves us. Faith and baptism are taught all over the New Testament—it’s just that like Psalms 119:160 says, you must take the SUM of what God says and put it all together to get the “TRUTH.” God’s truth does not depend on one passage of scripture.
I happen to believe that God is fully capable of preserving and PROTECTING His word, the Bible. I have faith in God enough to believe that if Mark 16:16 did not need to be included in His word, He would and COULD make sure it was not there. Thus, I believe it is perfectly valid and is there by His divine will.
My faith is simple. I just believe God is able and HAS provided us a book that we can trust. He would not allow us to be led astray by HIS book. I feel that I can teach Mark 16:16 with full confidence that it is indeed the truth.
I do not believe once saved/always saved is taught in the Bible and here is why. Please read these scriptures:
Exodus 32:33-God will BLOT OUT OF HIS BOOK THE NAME OF THOSE WHO SIN AGAINST HIM.
1 Chron. 28:9- we can be “cast off.”
Lamentations 5:11, 16- we can be rejected.
Acts 8:20-24- a saved person can “PERISH.”
Roman’s 11:20-22- you can be cut off!
1Cor. 9:24-27-Paul could be dis-qualified.
1 Cor. 10:12- lest he FALL.
Gal. 5:1-4- you are FALLEN FROM GRACE.
I Tim . 1:19-a”shipwrecked faith.”
Hebrews 2:1-Lest we drift away
Hebrews 3:12- we can depart from God.
Rev. 2:10 -a crown is only for the faithful.
Hebrews 4:11- lest anyone FALL.
Hebrews 6:4-6- “If they FALL AWAY…”
Hebrews 10:35-39- do not CAST AWAY, if anyone DRAWS BACK…
Hebrews 12:15- lest anyone FALL SHORT…
2 Peter 3:17- lest you FALL FROM YOUR STEADFASTNESS
2 John 1:8-can lose the things we’ve worked for.
Rev. 3:11- hold fast ..so you won’t lose your crown.
Rev. 3:3-5-Christ can blot out our names from the book of life.
Rev. 3:16-God will “vomit” lukewarm Christian’s out of His mouth.
Rev. 2:4-5- “Remember from where you have FALLEN and REPENT!”
1 Cor. 15:1-2- you were saved, but IF you don’t remain faithful, you have BELIEVED IN VAIN!
Col.1:23- we can “move away” from the gospel.
2 Peter 2:20-22-saved can be lost.
25 scriptures from all over the Bible that consistently say a once saved person can lose their salvation.
How many times does God have to say it for us to believe it?
Exodus 32:33-God will BLOT OUT OF HIS BOOK THE NAME OF THOSE WHO SIN AGAINST HIM.
1 Chron. 28:9- we can be “cast off.”
Lamentations 5:11, 16- we can be rejected.
Acts 8:20-24- a saved person can “PERISH.”
Roman’s 11:20-22- you can be cut off!
1Cor. 9:24-27-Paul could be dis-qualified.
1 Cor. 10:12- lest he FALL.
Gal. 5:1-4- you are FALLEN FROM GRACE.
I Tim . 1:19-a”shipwrecked faith.”
Hebrews 2:1-Lest we drift away
Hebrews 3:12- we can depart from God.
Rev. 2:10 -a crown is only for the faithful.
Hebrews 4:11- lest anyone FALL.
Hebrews 6:4-6- “If they FALL AWAY…”
Hebrews 10:35-39- do not CAST AWAY, if anyone DRAWS BACK…
Hebrews 12:15- lest anyone FALL SHORT…
2 Peter 3:17- lest you FALL FROM YOUR STEADFASTNESS
2 John 1:8-can lose the things we’ve worked for.
Rev. 3:11- hold fast ..so you won’t lose your crown.
Rev. 3:3-5-Christ can blot out our names from the book of life.
Rev. 3:16-God will “vomit” lukewarm Christian’s out of His mouth.
Rev. 2:4-5- “Remember from where you have FALLEN and REPENT!”
1 Cor. 15:1-2- you were saved, but IF you don’t remain faithful, you have BELIEVED IN VAIN!
Col.1:23- we can “move away” from the gospel.
2 Peter 2:20-22-saved can be lost.
25 scriptures from all over the Bible that consistently say a once saved person can lose their salvation.
How many times does God have to say it for us to believe it?
look closely—you will NOT find the word “ALONE” in a single one of those scriptures. The word “alone” is put there by men. That makes it a man made doctrine. Jesus says in Matthew 15:9 that teaching the doctrines of men makes your worship of Him VAIN OR USELESS.
There is a huge difference between having faith and believing faith ONLY saves you. Don’t be deceived. They are not the same thing. James 2:24 specifically says that “faith only or faith ALONE will not save anyone.
These scriptures prove that faith is necessary to be saved and that is all.
Not one of these scriptures proves we are saved by faith ALONE.
I was meaning to reply to this post but my answer did not appear here.. I did something wrong (not sure what). But if you would please, read post # 32. It was meant to be an answer to your thoughts here. Thank you and I’m sorry for the inconvenience.
You are correct. Your question about the gospel being the object of our faith in "Mark 16" is a misunderstanding of yours. It is not telling us we must have faith in the gospel. It is saying we must have believe what the gospel is saying about Jesus. In other words, we must believe that He died for our sins and rose from the dead. Being alive, we must go to Him to receive the forgiveness He offers.
Interesting. What do you think of Romans 3:25? Don't you think that it indicates that we have to believe that Jesus received the punishment for our sins (death) in order to be saved?
Romans 3:21-26 KJV
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
I’m not sure I understand correctly, but is the problem you are having about what to believe in—Christ or the gospel? If so, then, maybe Acts 8:36-37 will help clear that up. Phillip the evangelist told the Ethiopian eunuch that if he “believed” , he could be baptized. And the eunuch “confessed” that he believed that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. I think that approved Bible example gives us the answer of what Mark says we must believe. In 16:16. It also tells us what our “confession” is suppose to be. Jesus said, “If you confess “ME” before men, I will confess you before the Father.” Matt. 10:32. I’ve seen some so called “sinner’s prayers” that only “confessed” that a person is a “sinner.” But the confession that Christ want us to make in Matthew 10:32 is about HIM—not US. Likewise with “Belief. We must believe in Hus divinity.—that He is the Son of Gid. I think you have come to the right conclusion about belief.
There are two ways I can read Romans 3:25 in the KJV. Both kind of hard to express in writing, but one allows for my notion that belief in Jesus (as the Son of God) = salvation, and one requires that you have faith "in his blood". The way the ESV is translated seems to favour my way of reading it which allows for my notion, if I understand things correctly. Oh to sit down with someone who understands everything.
I deleted my reply by accident. Basically, I said Romans 3:25 isn't stating a requirement for salvation but is stating the fact that God laid on Him the iniquities of us all (like Isaiah 53:6). But on further reflection, it could be argued that part of the gospel is that Jesus died for our sins. I think I did believe that about Him when I was saved.
However, I also know that we do not need to know all these theological details before we're saved. I think basically we must know that we are sinners in need of a Savior, that Jesus is willing and able to save us if we ask Him, and we must act on that belief and go to Him for that salvation. If we go to Him, He will receive us.