In what way do you believe God specifically shows his love for unrepentant sinners who are in hell?
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Eh? I agreed with eternal punishment. The second death lasts forever after.
It is not, however, eternal punishing. Do you not see a difference?
I didn't at first no, but if the only consaquence of unrepentant sinners is merely death why does the bible speak of hell to begin with? and why speak of any torment for that matter?
I mean the second death the bible speaks of it but if punishment is the second death and not punishing then that must mean that the second death is literal
Do you not consider death to be punishment? Most people do. And probably most fear death.
Saying "merely death" is... well, it completely misses the mark. Fear of death is the reason given for bondage to sin.
Hebrews 2 verses 14-16
Also, death is the consequence God gave for disobedience, right at the beginning, with Adam and Eve.
Death was given as a consequence throughout the Bible, from beginning to end, in a multiplicity of ways.
It was the lie of the serpent which contradicted this, by saying, you will not surely die (Genesis 3:4).
And that lie, the lie at the heart of the fall of man and corruption of all creation, is told to this very day.
Death was given as a consequence throughout the Bible, from beginning to end, in a multiplicity of ways.
It was the lie of the serpent which contradicted this, by saying, you will not surely die (Genesis 3:4).
And that lie, the lie at the heart of the fall of man and corruption of all creation, is told to this very day.
Well death would be prefered to say hellfire or eternal torment so say a rapist and a murderer die and go into the after life and these men hurt countless of people killing and raping many women and children but instead of them suffering for their crimes they are just put to a second death which is more like sleep compared to eternal torment. God is a just God and a righteous judge not to mention what I saw when I visited hell there was no denying that the lake of fire is real and that the thirst was unimaginable the heat was beyond anything I ever could have imaginedDo you not consider death to be punishment? Most people do. And probably most fear death.
Saying "merely death" is... well, it completely misses the mark. Fear of death is the reason given for bondage to sin.
Hebrews 2 verses 14-16
I was protected by Jesus himself there but these souls I saw...... their screams their anguish their misery and moaning it is the stuff of nightmares no not even that worse than that.
I only know what I saw there and we could say it was just my imagination but if you saw what I did you would know that there is no dreaming up stuff like that.
I even saw these hot like red hot chains around people forcing them to walk around without rest while these chains burned off the skin of their bones making thewir skin instantly regrow then burn off again to the bones
I saw these hooks attacthed to peoples faces pulling and strethcing their skin until it looked inhuman their mouths ripped open their eye sockets cracked and ripped open from the hooks stuff like that I could go on and on but the point is i wish and hope it isn't eternal torment and that it is on;ly for a time but death? no none of that sadly
You minimize death. The Bible does not.
How does eternal conscious torment glorify God?
I say it doesn't. What you saw is not Scripture.
Consider that Paul told us to follow his example, assuring us he had given us the full council of God
straight from Jesus. Paul said we should do as he did, and how many times in all his books (28% of
the NT) did he preach eternal conscious torment via hellfire damnation? Did he ever even use the
word hell? No, he did not. Paul, who claimed he was caught up into heaven and given the Gospel
directly by Jesus, that all men would be judged according to his gospel, that he had declared to
people the whole counsel of God, that he kept back nothing profitable from the people he taught,
and that he was the apostle to the gentiles... never once used the word hell. Paul uses the Greek word
"Hades" in 1 Corinthians 15 verse 55, where it is translated "grave." (KJV) O death, where is thy sting?
O grave, where is thy victory? In Galatians 1 verse 8, he says: But though we, or an angel from heaven,
preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
From 1 Corinthians 15 verses 50-54
but this says there is a furnaceYou minimize death. The Bible does not.
How does eternal conscious torment glorify God?
I say it doesn't. What you saw is not Scripture.
Consider that Paul told us to follow his example, assuring us he had given us the full council of God
straight from Jesus. Paul said we should do as he did, and how many times in all his books (28% of
the NT) did he preach eternal conscious torment via hellfire damnation? Did he ever even use the
word hell? No, he did not. Paul, who claimed he was caught up into heaven and given the Gospel
directly by Jesus, that all men would be judged according to his gospel, that he had declared to
people the whole counsel of God, that he kept back nothing profitable from the people he taught,
and that he was the apostle to the gentiles... never once used the word hell. Paul uses the Greek
word "Hades" in 1 Corinthians 15 verse 55, where it is translated "grave." (KJV) O death, where is thy
sting? O grave, where is thy victory? In Galatians 1 verse 8, he says: But though we, or an angel from
heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
From 1 Corinthians 15 verses 50-54
Matthew 13:42
Bible Gateway
https://www.biblegateway.com › verse
They will throw them into the blazing furnace where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. He will throw them into a burning furnace does this not sound like torment? if death was the ultimate consaquence then that would be prefered instead of being thrown into a blazing furnace also no it does not glorify God because that is not what it is about it is about his righteous judgment
So does this:
Isaiah 48 verse 10 ~ I have tested you in the furnace of affliction
Also, many confuse hell and the lake of fire. They are NOT the same thing.
yes but the weeping and gnashing of teeth part sets it apart from that verse
so what is it then? in fact why even speak of the furnace to begin with?
Have you ever done a study on Sheol, Gehenna, and Hades? Hell is nowhere to be found in the OT; it was the KJ translators who erroneously inserted it in place of a number of different words in the NT. The Old Testament taught life after death for the righteous only, and that everyone who departed from this life went to Sheol, which could be translated “the grave” or “the realm of the dead.” In the OT, everyone, both the righteous and the wicked, expected to go to Sheol, which was simply a holding place of the dead, who know nothing. Sheol was depicted as a place of the dead with a great divide which none could cross, with Abraham's bosom being on one side where believers were. Those who had placed their faith in God expected to go there but knew they would be redeemed, as evidenced by Job (among others) which is widely considered to be the oldest book of the Bible.
Jesus spoke about the garbage dump in the Valley of Hinnom or Gehenna, where corpses were dumped to rot, and be eaten by worms. Gehinnom became associated with divine punishment in Jewish Apocalyptic writings as the destination of the wicked, and is different from Sheol, the abode of the dead, though the KJV translates both with the Anglo-Saxon word hell. The Bible does not teach that the soul is imperishable. In FACT, the Bible teaches that God alone is immortal.
Job 19:25-27a I know that my Redeemer lives, and in the end He will stand upon the earth. Even after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God. I will see Him for myself; my eyes will behold Him, and not as a stranger.
yes the realm of the dead abrahams bossom I have visited both of those places as well the outer darkness and this haven like place for believers but I was unable to cross the divide or even tell the end of it yet somehow they could see meHave you ever done a study on Sheol, Gehenna, and Hades? Hell is nowhere to be found in the OT; it was the KJ translators who erroneously inserted it in place of a number of different words in the NT. The Old Testament taught life after death for the righteous only, and that everyone who departed from this life went to Sheol, which could be translated “the grave” or “the realm of the dead.” In the OT, everyone, both the righteous and the wicked, expected to go to Sheol, which was simply a holding place of the dead, who know nothing. Sheol was depicted as a place of the dead with a great divide which none could cross, with Abraham's bosom being on one side where believers were. Those who had placed their faith in God expected to go there but knew they would be redeemed, as evidenced by Job (among others) which is widely considered to be the oldest book of the Bible.
Jesus spoke about the garbage dump in the Valley of Hinnom or Gehenna, where corpses were dumped to rot, and be eaten by worms. Gehinnom became associated with divine punishment in Jewish Apocalyptic writings as the destination of the wicked, and is different from Sheol, the abode of the dead, though the KJV translates both with the Anglo-Saxon word hell. The Bible does not teach that the soul is imperishable. In FACT, the Bible teaches that God alone is immortal.
Job 19:25-27a I know that my Redeemer lives, and in the end He will stand upon the earth. Even after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God. I will see Him for myself; my eyes will behold Him, and not as a stranger.
I actually wrote about them in my thread with my psalms in the misc. section but didn't know they were in the bible to be honest and I certainly didn't know the kjv inserted hell into the text so much for the kjv onlyists then
Yes, on the one hand some of the KJ onlyists, in a rare moment of honesty, could say, the translators made a mistake doing that, using the word hell in place of multiple other words that had different meanings, but then they would turn around and still claim the KJV was perfect and/or without error. Quite illogical. The hell many describe comes largely from fiction, more specifically, Dante's Inferno from The Divine Comedy, and William Blake paintings. Nothing like that is described in the Bible. In 1824, British landscape painter John Linell commissioned the poet and artist William Blake to illustrate the Divine Comedy, a fourteenth-century epic poem by Dante Alighieri. Though they were painted five centuries after the poem was written, Blake’s one hundred and two water color illustrations resonated well with Dante’s secular and spiritual ideas of a subsiding society and a soul’s journey through hell.
God does not violate His own nature. He does not love arbitrarily like humanity. God is love. His nature does not change according to circumstances.
"Say to them: ‘As surely as I live, declares the Lord GOD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked should turn from their ways and live." Ezekiel 33:11
In context, this applies to Israel. However, That God also loves the Gentiles is obvious. He reserved His most elite apostle to minister to the Gentiles. If we were running things, we would have considered Paul to be the obvious choice because he was Jewish to the core. God's ways are not ours. God no longer sees Jew and Gentile. God does not delight in the death of wicked Gentiles either.