Saved by faith alone?

[Beckworth]

No more than A = A+B.

Letters may not be so different, but it's the spirit behind them that matters most.

Having faith alone is condemned in the Bible, and so is not the same as having faith in Jesus Christ alone. The one is faith alone without living it, and the other is having faith in Jesus as the only true Christ of God, rather than a false christ.

God and the Bible make no such distinction as you are making. The faith you described as “faith in Jesus Christ as the only true Christ of God” is the same faith the demons have in James 2 and it is THAT kind of faith, alone, that James says will not save anyone. James 2:24.

God has not qualified “faith” in the Bible as you have done. Only man does that.

 

[Beckworth]

Didn't you claim to know between 50 and 100 people you said you knew had been saved but then lost their salvation?

yes, I did based on the fact that they turned their backs on God and the Bible and lived a sinful life. God says we can know them by their “works.” We ARE able to judge “works”. But saying they were never saved in the first place ( which is what you say) is judging their HEARTS, their sincerity, their salvation. THAT we cannot know or judge. Because we have no way of knowing—at best you are just guessing and judging them in a way that God has condemned.

Judging hearts as evil ( not good) also shows a lack of love for that person as 1 Corinthians 13 says.

 

[Magenta]

yes, I did based on the fact that they turned their backs on God and the Bible and lived a sinful life. God says we can know them by their “works.” We ARE able to judge “works”. But saying they were never saved in the first place ( which is what you say) is judging their HEARTS, their sincerity, their salvation. THAT we cannot know or judge. Because we have no way of knowing—at best you are just guessing and judging them in a way that God has condemned.

Judging hearts as evil ( not good) also shows a lack of love for that person as 1 Corinthians 13 says.

You contradict yourself. You say we cannot know but then you claim to know. You really ought to make
up your mind. As it is, you just come across as terribly confused. What I say is what the Bible says.

1 John 2 verse 19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us.

 

[Cameron143]

yes, I did based on the fact that they turned their backs on God and the Bible and lived a sinful life. God says we can know them by their “works.” We ARE able to judge “works”. But saying they were never saved in the first place ( which is what you say) is judging their HEARTS, their sincerity, their salvation. THAT we cannot know or judge. Because we have no way of knowing—at best you are just guessing and judging them in a way that God has condemned.

Judging hearts as evil ( not good) also shows a lack of love for that person as 1 Corinthians 13 says.

By their fruit they are known; not by their works. Works can be deceptive. Consider those in Matthew 7:21-23. The fruit of the Spirit cannot be counterfeited because it is produced by the Spirit.
Perhaps you aren't a very good fruit inspector?

 

[Beckworth]

True. Can't argue with God if we take him at his words. That he alone as holy Spirit gives us understanding. And so that we heed his calling and leave our natural minded condition so to know his voice ,repent, and be in his eternal covenental salvation.

Of all that the father gives me I shall lose none.

And yet, John 17:12 Jesus says He did lose one—Judas. Jesus is talking about the 12 disciples. After talking about the 12 disciples whom God gave Him, He THEN talks about disciples in general who will be converted by their preaching in verse 29.

 

[Beckworth]

You contradict yourself. You say we cannot know but then you claim to know. You really ought to make
up your mind. As it is, you just come across as terribly confused. What I say is what the Bible says.

1 John 2 verse 19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us.

I believe I was perfectly clear in describing the difference between judging “works” as is stated in Matthew 7:20 and judging “hearts” as is condemned in Matthew 7:1

Perhaps you are the one confused about this?

 

[Beckworth]

You contradict yourself. You say we cannot know but then you claim to know. You really ought to make
up your mind. As it is, you just come across as terribly confused. What I say is what the Bible says.

1 John 2 verse 19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us.

I believe I was perfectly clear in describing the difference between judging

By their fruit they are known; not by their works. Works can be deceptive. Consider those in Matthew 7:21-23. The fruit of the Spirit cannot be counterfeited because it is produced by the Spirit.
Perhaps you aren't a very good fruit inspector?

Matthew 7:20-“Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you CAN IDENTIFY PEOPLE BY THEIR ACTIONS.” Perhaps you should read the words from other translations. BTW, this verse is not talking about the fruits of the spirit. Is this a smokescreen to get us off the subject of incorrect judging?

 

[Cameron143]

I believe I was perfectly clear in describing the difference between judging


Matthew 7:20-“Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you CAN IDENTIFY PEOPLE BY THEIR ACTIONS.” Perhaps you should read the words from other translations. BTW, this verse is not talking about the fruits of the spirit. Is this a smokescreen to get us off the subject of incorrect judging?

2 people give a million dollars to a charity for the poor. 1 is a Christian. Which one?

 

[Mouse_Cheeks]

And yet, John 17:12 Jesus says He did lose one—Judas. Jesus is talking about the 12 disciples. After talking about the 12 disciples whom God gave Him, He THEN talks about disciples in general who will be converted by their preaching in verse 29.

Disciple is like unto the meaning of student. Apostle is the equivalent of teacher.

As for Judas,we don't know that Judas was lost.

Judas returned to the temple elders the 30 pieces of silver he was paid so to identify Jesus to the temple guards. Notice? One piece of silver for every year of the age of Jesus before he started his three year ministry.

Judas repented of having betrayed Jesus,though that insured Jesus would fulfill the prophecy of the slaying of the lamb,and then Judas cursed himself by hanging himself from a tree.

"Cursed is he who hangs from a tree."

God has mercy upon whom he decides to show mercy.
Jesus told Judas,who had received the first supper that would become the last supper ritual, to go and do what he must do.
The Disciples were armed with swords. What chance would Judas have had to leave that upper room? After they learned one among them would betray Jesus if Jesus didn't will it so?

The Son of Perdition,Satan,is not forgiven.
The text doesn't say Judas,whom we are told was possessed by Satan,was not forgiven.

With Satan ,the adversary, within Judas, Judas was not responsible for those actions committed by the enemy. Judas was merely the vehicle through which it occurred.

I think that realization,what Satan had led him to do, when Judas realized Jesus was to be hanged,crucified on a tree, is what led Judas to kill himself ,curse himself,in the same manner. Hanging by rope,not crucifixion.

Guilt.

But if Satan was within, Judas was not the betrayer. Satan was.

 

[mailmandan]

John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled.

John 18:9 - that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, "Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none." Jesus did not lose Judas. Judas was already lost.

Judas was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus and Jesus knew it from the beginning (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11).

Syllogism

1. All given by the Father to Jesus are kept.
2. Judas was not kept.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father

Or, this way.

1. None of those given to Jesus by the Father will be lost by Jesus.
2. Judas is lost.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father.

 

[GWH]

By their fruit they are known; not by their works. Works can be deceptive. Consider those in Matthew 7:21-23. The fruit of the Spirit cannot be counterfeited because it is produced by the Spirit.
Perhaps you aren't a very good fruit inspector?

Loving fruit = godly/good works.

 

[Cameron143]

Loving fruit = godly/good works.

Have you read Galatians 5? The fruit of the Spirit is not works. It is a demonstration of the attributes of God in an individual.

 

[Lamar]

I see what you are saying, but faith always has an object.
"faith in"

Faith always has a proper response.

An improper response is a sign of a dead faith.

 

[GWH]

Have you read Galatians 5? The fruit of the Spirit is not works. It is a demonstration of the attributes of God in an individual.

Have you read Eph. 2:10?
Are you a good dot connector?

 

[Cameron143]

Have you read Eph. 2:10?
Are you a good dot connector?

It's 2 different things. One is what we do, and the other is the manner in which we do it.
Read 1 Corinthians 13:1-3. One can do lots of things without love being present in them. Love is a fruit, and giving all your goods to the poor is a work. You can have works without fruit.

 

[GWH]

It's 2 different things. One is what we do, and the other is the manner in which we do it.
Read 1 Corinthians 13:1-3. One can do lots of things without love being present in them. Love is a fruit, and giving all your goods to the poor is a work. You can have works without fruit.

I encourage you to harmonize dots rather than double-think by divorcing "what" from "how".

 

[Cameron143]

I encourage you to harmonize dots rather than double-think by divorcing "what" from "how".

Noted. I encourage you to actually agree with what scripture teaches rather than harmonize away truth.

 

[Beckworth]

Disciple is like unto the meaning of student. Apostle is the equivalent of teacher.

As for Judas,we don't know that Judas was lost.

Judas returned to the temple elders the 30 pieces of silver he was paid so to identify Jesus to the temple guards. Notice? One piece of silver for every year of the age of Jesus before he started his three year ministry.

Judas repented of having betrayed Jesus,though that insured Jesus would fulfill the prophecy of the slaying of the lamb,and then Judas cursed himself by hanging himself from a tree.

"Cursed is he who hangs from a tree."

God has mercy upon whom he decides to show mercy.
Jesus told Judas,who had received the first supper that would become the last supper ritual, to go and do what he must do.
The Disciples were armed with swords. What chance would Judas have had to leave that upper room? After they learned one among them would betray Jesus if Jesus didn't will it so?

The Son of Perdition,Satan,is not forgiven.
The text doesn't say Judas,whom we are told was possessed by Satan,was not forgiven.

With Satan ,the adversary, within Judas, Judas was not responsible for those actions committed by the enemy. Judas was merely the vehicle through which it occurred.

I think that realization,what Satan had led him to do, when Judas realized Jesus was to be hanged,crucified on a tree, is what led Judas to kill himself ,curse himself,in the same manner. Hanging by rope,not crucifixion.

Guilt.



But if Satan was within, Judas was not the betrayer. Satan was.

Perhaps you don’t believe that suicide is self murder and will cause a person to lose their soul. (Murderers will not inherit the kingdom of God.) Perhaps you believe in “once saved, always saved” or the impossibility of apostasy. If you do, then you and I are not in agreement.

The difference in Peter and Judas— Peter also sinned, and wept, and repented. But Peter changed his life and went on to serve the Lord. Judas sinned, wept, repented and hanged himself.

 

[TrustandObey]

What Cain and Abel's sacrifices represented was the issue.

3And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. 4And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

The firstlings of the flock represents the sacrifice that God would provide, while the fruit of Cain's labor represents the works that men do thinking that their works are acceptable sacrifices.

You asked what are we to do?

I gave you a cogent answer.

Not understanding your response.

Do you disagree with the advice?

 

[TrustandObey]

You stand condemned because you as a sinner decide to add your attempts to quit sinning (obey the law, repent of sins, etc). The Object of your faith must change to the Only One Who atoned for all sins. It's stated 100 times in the Holy Bible in this one book alone.
This is from John 3

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Adam, Eve and Cain were condemned because of a lack of faith and not sin?

Sinners are condemned before they even express a lack of faith...correct?

Attempting to "quit sinning" is not the cause of our condemnation. It is the sin itself!

You are rather deep into faith alone regeneration theology.