Concerning the gift of tongues

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jan 18, 2016
7,435
1,970
113
Clearly, there was a need to ask when the individuals did not receive the Holy Spirt after believing in Jesus and submitting to water baptism.
Not here.... their issue was that they were only baptized with John's baptism. At least that's what they said....

Peter, at the establishment of Jesus' church told the crowd to repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus.... and they WOULD receive the Holy Spirit... not maybe, or later.... they would....
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,423
1,185
113
I don't know of anyone that wants to "restrict" what the Spirit can, and will do in the body of believers.

I believe that if believers pray to receive the gifts that the Spirit will give, that they will receive what they NEED... not what they WANT.

"11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He [l]wills."

I truly WANTED to experience speaking in tongues, but was not given that gift. I'm ok with that, as I don't NEED it to fill some void in my walk with Jesus. I don't need to SEE it, to prove to me that the Spirit is in and among us.

If others truly need that, then I'm certain the Spirit is willing to provide it. But, to say that EVERY believer "if they are truly baptized in the Spirit" should speak in tongues is completely un-scriptural.... and it can, and will lead to feelings of inadequacy in new believers, or it will encourage them to manufacture their own "tongue language" so they can prove their acceptance.

All because of the false emphasis placed on the LEAST of the spiritual gifts.... it's all about the "show".....
Consider that the biblical record reveals God initiates speaking in tongues for different purposes. A proper understanding of these manisfestations requires rightly dividing the word of truth.

Notice all detailed conversion accounts reveal speaking in tongues confirmed the Holy Spirit had come to dwell inside individuals. 100% spoke in unknown tongues. It is after being indwelt by the Holy Spirit that personal interaction between the believer's renewed spirit and God's Spirit takes place being verbalized through speaking in tongues. The experience does not edify the natural mind but rather the renewed spirit. Paul explained this: "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also." 1 Cor. 14:14-15

Whereas all can interact in spiritual prayer, after being indwelt by the Holy Spirit, not all will be used to operate in the Spiritual gift of tongues and/or it's companion gift of interpretation in the church setting. It is through these gifts that God presents a message to the congregation through a person of His choosing, and then prompts another to speak the message in the known language; neither the person speaking nor the interpreter is doing it by means of any natural ability. Operation of both is miraculous and initiated directly by the Holy Spirit. The message is for the edification of all present.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,290
4,461
113
Not here.... their issue was that they were only baptized with John's baptism. At least that's what they said....

Peter, at the establishment of Jesus' church told the crowd to repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus.... and they WOULD receive the Holy Spirit... not maybe, or later.... they would....
everyone who is saved receives the Holy Spirit. John 14:17

17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

Two applications(work) of the Holy Spirit: with you and in you.
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
3,277
1,147
113
45
I am a Christian and a Paulian (which is why I named my son Paul),
and I invite you to learn his teachings on our website:

<truthseekersfellowship.com>

GWH,
(a lead learner of GW :^)
AHHHAHAHA, He called you a Calvinist. That's absolutely hilarious, how does it feel Calvin lover? You old five-point adoring Calvinist, I knew your love for ALL things Calvin would be exposed. GWH the Calvinist, Calvin loving , five point believing Calvin fanboy. Dude, I freaking knew it.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,423
1,185
113
I would like to say that in the word of God Paul asked the disciples at Ephesus
and he said :


19 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”

So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”

3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”

So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”

4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now the men were about twelve in all.

This work of empowerment was significant enough that Paul asked them if they have received The Baptism in the Holy Spirit also known as The Baptism of Jesus which Jogn said in the Gospel of John chapter 1: 33


Also, Jesus told the disciples to go and wait until they have received power from on high Luke 24:49. Jesus noted that they would receive power in Acts 1:8, which is the last instruction given to them before he ascended.

So based on scripture, I say that yes, everyone should, but God is not going to force one to receive. That doesn't mean all have to speak in tongues But I do see tongues and Prophesying in context to one who has been baptized in the Holy Spirit.
Paul questioned those he thought were believers whether they had received the Holy Spirit yet; "Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?" His question indicates the Holy Spirit is not automatically received at the point of believing the gospel message. The idea the Holy Spirit is received at the moment of belief is refuted by the Samaritan account as well. (Acts 8:12-18)
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,423
1,185
113
Not sure why you were referenced, but here is some food for exercise:

What should be asked is "What must I do to be saved?" (Matt. 7:7, Acts 16:30)
...
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren,

what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:36-38
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,423
1,185
113
Not here.... their issue was that they were only baptized with John's baptism. At least that's what they said....

Peter, at the establishment of Jesus' church told the crowd to repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus.... and they WOULD receive the Holy Spirit... not maybe, or later.... they would....
Shall = future tense (Acts 2:38)

The reference was about the Samaritans in Acts 8. They believed the message concerning Jesus and were water baptized in the name of Jesus, yet did not receive the Holy Spirit. Peter and John came days later to assist, and the individuals received the Holy Spirit at that point.

"But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women...

Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost."
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,423
1,185
113
everyone who is saved receives the Holy Spirit. John 14:17

17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

Two applications(work) of the Holy Spirit: with you and in you.
This scripture does not speak of two applications. Jesus explained that the Holy Spirit was currently with the disciples, but would be in them in the future:

"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him:
but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, (currently dwells with you) and shall be in you." (shall be in you=future tense. Pentecost)


Jesus emphasized that the Comforter could not come until He left. (John 16:7) And just as Jesus stated the Holy Ghost/Comforter came 10 days after Jesus ascended, "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he (Jesus) hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. (Acts 2:4, 33)
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,290
4,461
113
Paul questioned those he thought were believers whether they had received the Holy Spirit yet; "Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?" His question indicates the Holy Spirit is not automatically received at the point of believing the gospel message. The idea the Holy Spirit is received at the moment of belief is refuted by the Samaritan account as well. (Acts 8:12-18)
That was not the question Paul asked


19 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”

So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”

3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”

So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”

4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now the men were about twelve in all.


The Baptism of Jesus is the Empowerment of the Holy Spirit which Jesus does. John 1:33

33 I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’


Jesus said in Luke 24:49
49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”

The Disciples were saved already.

Jesus said in Acts 1:8
8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”


Before Jesus' Accending, these are the last words Jesus said to those who saw him resurrected. And were saved. They Had the Holy Spirit already in them, as Jesus said in John 20:22

22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.


As John 14:16-17


16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you "another Helper," : (in the Greek means like the same kind) that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.


In this context, Jesus said they know HIM, and He will be in you. This did not happen yet. But they fully knew Jesus as God. Now, those who argue Thomas was not there don't matter Because when thomas saw Jesus he believed and confessed Jesus was God and Lord.

28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

All believed in the Lord Jesus and were saved. Yet they have not been empowered to be a witness as the scriptures say.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,290
4,461
113
This scripture does not speak of two applications. Jesus explained that the Holy Spirit was currently with the disciples, but would be in them in the future:

"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him:
but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, (currently dwells with you) and shall be in you." (shall be in you=future tense. Pentecost)


Jesus emphasized that the Comforter could not come until He left. (John 16:7) And just as Jesus stated the Holy Ghost/Comforter came 10 days after Jesus ascended, "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he (Jesus) hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. (Acts 2:4, 33)
yes it does and I provided for you in my last post :)
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,290
4,461
113
This scripture does not speak of two applications. Jesus explained that the Holy Spirit was currently with the disciples, but would be in them in the future:

"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him:
but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, (currently dwells with you) and shall be in you." (shall be in you=future tense. Pentecost)


Jesus emphasized that the Comforter could not come until He left. (John 16:7) And just as Jesus stated the Holy Ghost/Comforter came 10 days after Jesus ascended, "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he (Jesus) hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. (Acts 2:4, 33)
That was not the question Paul asked


19 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”

So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”

3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”

So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”

4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now the men were about twelve in all.


The Baptism of Jesus is the Empowerment of the Holy Spirit which Jesus does. John 1:33

33 I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’


Jesus said in Luke 24:49
49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”

The Disciples were saved already.

Jesus said in Acts 1:8
8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”


Before Jesus' Accending, these are the last words Jesus said to those who saw him resurrected. And were saved. They Had the Holy Spirit already in them, as Jesus said in John 20:22

22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.


As John 14:16-17


16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you "another Helper," : (in the Greek means like the same kind) that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.


In this context, Jesus said they know HIM, and He will be in you. This did not happen yet. But they fully knew Jesus as God. Now, those who argue Thomas was not there don't matter Because when thomas saw Jesus he believed and confessed Jesus was God and Lord.

28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

All believed in the Lord Jesus and were saved. Yet they have not been empowered to be a witness as the scriptures say.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,423
1,185
113
That was not the question Paul asked


19 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”

So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”

3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”

So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”

4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now the men were about twelve in all.


The Baptism of Jesus is the Empowerment of the Holy Spirit which Jesus does. John 1:33

33 I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’


Jesus said in Luke 24:49
49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”

The Disciples were saved already.

Jesus said in Acts 1:8
8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”


Before Jesus' Accending, these are the last words Jesus said to those who saw him resurrected. And were saved. They Had the Holy Spirit already in them, as Jesus said in John 20:22

22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.


As John 14:16-17


16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you "another Helper," : (in the Greek means like the same kind) that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.


In this context, Jesus said they know HIM, and He will be in you. This did not happen yet. But they fully knew Jesus as God. Now, those who argue Thomas was not there don't matter Because when thomas saw Jesus he believed and confessed Jesus was God and Lord.

28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

All believed in the Lord Jesus and were saved. Yet they have not been empowered to be a witness as the scriptures say.
Some bible translations have a footnote next to the word "when" indicating the meaning could be Or, after. The KJV reads: "Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?" Also, the account itself confirms the 12 did not receive the Holy Ghost the moment they believed in Jesus. (verse 4) Nor when they submitted to water baptism in the name of Jesus. (verse 5) The record confirms that they actually received the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues and prophesied after Paul laid hands on them. (verse 6)

It's also interesting to note that this is the last account detailing the same requirements Peter initially presented at Pentecost. Paul presented the same life giving message to 12 individuals 20+ years later, (verse 7) and the message continues on... As prophesied by Jesus. (Luke 24:47)

"Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7 And all the men were about twelve." Acts 19:1-7
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,435
1,970
113
The message is for the edification of all present.
Is it the message that is edifying, or the show of the tongue speaking/interpretation?
What message could possibly come through unknown tongues that is not already present and readily available in the word?
 

ocean

Active member
Oct 15, 2024
435
219
43
AHHHAHAHA, He called you a Calvinist. That's absolutely hilarious, how does it feel Calvin lover? You old five-point adoring Calvinist, I knew your love for ALL things Calvin would be exposed. GWH the Calvinist, Calvin loving , five point believing Calvin fanboy. Dude, I freaking knew it.
Well he is a she but yeah. Calvinist. No staunch Calvinist will deny it. It's all on their website but you have to dig for it because the curtain is a little 'thick'. ;)
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,435
1,970
113
The record confirms that they actually received the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues and prophesied after Paul laid hands on them.
That is when they received the manifestation of the sign gift.... just as it was passed on in all other instances... by the laying on of the apostles' hands...

according to Peter, the Spirit indwelt them after belief and baptism.
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
3,277
1,147
113
45
Well he is a she but yeah. Calvinist. No staunch Calvinist will deny it. It's all on their website but you have to dig for it because the curtain is a little 'thick'. ;)
What you don't know is that this is the president of the CDSC (Calvinist Derangment Syndrome Cult) here. If you knew how bad they hate Calvin to the point they falsely call others Calvinist who are not Calvinist just to have someone to fight with. This person hates John Calvin more than anyone I've ever seen, and I think it's great you call them a Calvinist after all the people they've done it to.
 
Oct 19, 2024
4,665
1,038
113
USA-TX
AHHHAHAHA, He called you a Calvinist. That's absolutely hilarious, how does it feel Calvin lover? You old five-point adoring Calvinist, I knew your love for ALL things Calvin would be exposed. GWH the Calvinist, Calvin loving , five point believing Calvin fanboy. Dude, I freaking knew it.
LOL!! I was wondering if anyone would notice that.
Good catch! :LOL:
 

ocean

Active member
Oct 15, 2024
435
219
43
The obsession with tongues is unhelpful. I was most sceptical for about 3 years. Eventually, I was convinced that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was Biblical and was for power to witness. Who would not want that? But I was put off by Pentecostals especially trying to push it on me.

I remember the night well. Christmas Eve, 1974. I was in small country town in NSW. I did not know it then, but Darwin was about to be destroyed by a cyclone. Not the kind of mighty rushing wind I was looking for. I'd been seeking for some time, not able to receive. I had read many books on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. That night, I read another book, by Pat Boon. He wrote in the last page that some people do not receive because they were focused on the gift and not the Giver. Ah. My problem exactly.

I did not ask as I'd been asking for some time. It was as if a blockage was removed. I began to speak in a tongue naturally, unforced and without pressure. I could stop any time.

Watchman Nee called tongues "baby talk". I spoke in tongues for about 10 years and just lost the desire to do so.

I do not know why tongues is such a big deal. It is the least of the gifts. Corinth was the gifted Church but Paul rebuked them for their immaturity. Gifts are not fruit. Gifts can be enormously helpful, but they are no substitute for fellowship with Jesus, study of God's word and real worship. There are also the counterfeit manifestations. Sadly, many believers lack discernment and believe that anything supernatural is of God. So some applaud when someone is rolling on the floor or cackling like a chicken.

At the same time, let's not reject the true on account of the false.
Well, the obsession with tongues seems to be on the part of those who are cessationists than those who have understood that it is a part of the believer that God Himself deigned helpful. This thread was started with the intent to discuss that particular gift sol yeah, here we are.

The worst experiences of my life were born and carried out in a Pentecostal church (I am not Pentecostal but friends were) and I will never darken a Pentecostal entry again. I don't know if I managed to run across the worst of that faith or what but some of those people are going to have an awful lot to answer for. Starting with the 'Pastor.' I don't believe all Pentecostal churches are like that one,
but I don't intend to find out either.

Thankfully, no one prayed for me or over me to be able to speak in tongues. I simply prayed alone, God saw my heart and I was a partaker of that gift with no encouragement from anyone; only the desire to receive from God what was His to give. I believe there is alot of abuse regarding that gift (as others have pointed out). I mean its easy to mimic 'tongues' but pretending to be a teacher or pretending to have the gift of discernment (there are disgusting fakes in that business too sadly) or wisdom or whatever is not so easy to do.

You call tongues the least of the gifts and that is correct but remember that Paul puts it on par with prophecy when it is interpreted. We are told to pray that we can interpret. Now many people confuse NT prophecy with OT prophecy but the main purpose of NT prophecy is to expound, to encourage and reveal. That, is one reason there are so many fakes telling us what the future holds. Who calls these phonies out when they get it wrong time after time? God has not told them what to say yet they say they speak for him.

Anyway, we each have to walk before God and answer to Him and while so much is disturbingly wrong in church(es) as we see them today, God has not changed. Discernment goes a long way to enable a person to walk through what I call 'the minefield' that represents Christianity today. I would simply say to anyone to pursue Jesus and the rest will come if your heart is honest.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,290
4,461
113
Some bible translations have a footnote next to the word "when" indicating the meaning could be Or, after. The KJV reads: "Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?" Also, the account itself confirms the 12 did not receive the Holy Ghost the moment they believed in Jesus. (verse 4) Nor when they submitted to water baptism in the name of Jesus. (verse 5) The record confirms that they actually received the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues and prophesied after Paul laid hands on them. (verse 6)

It's also interesting to note that this is the last account detailing the same requirements Peter initially presented at Pentecost. Paul presented the same life giving message to 12 individuals 20+ years later, (verse 7) and the message continues on... As prophesied by Jesus. (Luke 24:47)

"Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7 And all the men were about twelve." Acts 19:1-7

You are correct,, however, Jesus' words are far more authoritative in establishing the position of Receiving the Holy Spirit in John 20:22,

The Disciples were told to wait until you have been empowered from the on High and they had the Holy Spirit. Then, 10 days after Jesus had acceded to heaven, they were empowered at Pentacost.


Salvation comes when one believes in the Lord Jesus Christ. John 3:16 Roman chapter 10:9-11
The empowering can happen then, after or at water baptism. Baptized in Jesus' name means by His authority. It is Jesus who is baptized with the Holy Spirit, as John 1:33 states.

water baptism is not what Paul was talking about in Acts 19. They were already water-baptized of repentance. The discussion was: Have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed? What did they believe in? They were disciples having the same experience as Apollos before Aquila & Percilla showed him a more perfect way.


Acts 18:26-28 New King James Version (NKJV)
So he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Aquila and Priscilla heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately. And when he desired to cross to Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him; and when he arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace; for he vigorously refuted the Jews publicly, showing from the Scriptures that Jesus is the Christ.