Making a case for women in leadership

[Edify]

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

That's why it means nothing to me that they are doing miracles, because they're not exactly obeying God or respecting what He says in the Bible about His order in the church.🎻

Nothing in Matt 7 says what they will say to the Lord on that day is the truth. It didn't happen because Jesus didn't have a relationship with them.
One of my fav scriptures: Acts 5:32
New American Standard Bible
And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

No you are saying by pulling that verse out of context read everything he said not just one part also he was not talking about women in authority you just pulled that scripture out of context to make it say something it isn't

*Shrug* I didn't take it out of context because I was talking about what is already happening in general coming true in the very last days which I'm starting to see is coming upon us.

So really no surprise you'd react this way. God says so in the Bible, so I accept it.



🎻

 

[Snackersmom]

Nothing in Matt 7 says what they will say to the Lord on that day is the truth. It didn't happen because Jesus didn't have a relationship with them.
One of my fav scriptures: Acts 5:32
New American Standard Bible
And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

Absolutely! True miracles are accomplished only by the power of God. If Jesus NEVER knew them then He never used them to do an actual miracle. So they're either lying, thought they did a miracle but didn't, or did something supernatural through the power of demonic forces and are trying to spin it as a work of God.

I find it very telling that the people in that passage are telling Jesus what "They" did. Anyone who has actually been a part of a true miracle would know that it wasn't something "they" did, rather something GOD did.

 

[Blain]

*Shrug* I didn't take it out of context because I was talking about what is already happening in general coming true in the very last days which I'm starting to see is coming upon us.

So really no surprise you'd react this way. God says so in the Bible, so I accept it.



🎻

and again out of context because he was not talking about this situation either and I am not an apostate either you just pull scripture out to try to make it say something then arrogantly equate me to apostacy how very Christian opf you

 

[Edify]

Absolutely! True miracles are accomplished only by the power of God. If Jesus NEVER knew them then He never used them to do an actual miracle. So they're either lying, thought they did a miracle but didn't, or did something supernatural through the power of demonic forces and are trying to spin it as a work of God.

I find it very telling that the people in that passage are telling Jesus what "They" did. Anyone who has actually been a part of a true miracle would know that it wasn't something "they" did, rather something GOD did.

AMEN!

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Yeah, shouting me down and propping each other up with approval won't change the truth, but I've done enough to make you aware of what the Bible actually says.

So now I'm going to warn the future readers out there:

Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

2 Thessalonians:9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

Dear readers, I remind you all of this because a good number of you are already embracing popular false doctrines such OSAS, pre-trib rapture and women in authority in church. It's crucial that you let go of these because in the end they won't serve you well especially if this generation ends up in great tribulation. Love God and His truth, and He will surely empower you endure to the end and enter through the narrow gate.


🎻

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Everyone knows Pauls words on women pastors or rather a women speaking or teaching in the church and at face value this would seem pretty clear however the context of the verse has to do with the issues that was going on in the church at the time but what really got me thinking was this right here

Galatians 3:28 states that in Christ Jesus, there is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor male nor female, for all are one. This verse emphasizes the equality and unity of believers in Christ, transcending traditional social and cultural divisions. It highlights that these categories, while still present in human society,
are not determinants of value or significance within the Christian community and so this verse got me thinking if this is to be true then why do we take Pauls words at face value he would be contradicting the himself
unless of course he was speaking in regards to what was going on in the church at the time then it would make sense not to mention what about the women who he even baosted about who ministered to people such as Junia?

This one verse just doesn't make sense to me if indeed women are subhuman in the church and Jesus himself never forbid women of such a thing he never even addressed it
Would Jesus forbid the gospel being preached by a women?

after they received the spirit at pentocost

“But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The reason I quoted this is because of this

“How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭14:26, 29‬ ‭KJV‬‬
clearly women would receive the gift of prophecy by the spirit after pentocost and clearly when the church gathered ( unlike today btw ) two or theee prophets were to speak whatever the lord had made known and the others were to listen and consider what they said.

Paul didn’t allow women to teach.

“But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now to me usurping authority is a different matter from being given the gift of prophecy and speaking to the congregation. But Paul says “ I do not allow a women to speak “

Jesus however , actually sent a woman to be the first to report his resurrection to the men folk who had all left by the time he rose up she remained there weeping and became the first commissioned witness of Jesus resurrection which is of course a main subject of the gospel.

aid the prophets are whos meant to speak in church and clearly women would receive the gift of prophecy by the Holy Ghost I don’t really see the issue in listening to what a woman has to say . Now there are both men and women who speak to congregations daily tbat are teaching wrong things but also those who are speaking good and correct things to the chrich

we’re so far from the biblical design of church it’s crazy . We have a pastor who speaks every week for a few minutes and then everyone claps . The design was for a group gathering where the whole congregation had some contributions one man a psalm of Hope another man a word of encouragement a couple prophets as the main speakers ect

Somewhere along the way we lost the truth of what’s still there

 

[stilllearning]

Everyone knows Pauls words on women pastors or rather a women speaking or teaching in the church and at face value this would seem pretty clear however the context of the verse has to do with the issues that was going on in the church at the time but what really got me thinking was this right here

Galatians 3:28 states that in Christ Jesus, there is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor male nor female, for all are one. This verse emphasizes the equality and unity of believers in Christ, transcending traditional social and cultural divisions. It highlights that these categories, while still present in human society,
are not determinants of value or significance within the Christian community and so this verse got me thinking if this is to be true then why do we take Pauls words at face value he would be contradicting the himself
unless of course he was speaking in regards to what was going on in the church at the time then it would make sense not to mention what about the women who he even baosted about who ministered to people such as Junia?

This one verse just doesn't make sense to me if indeed women are subhuman in the church and Jesus himself never forbid women of such a thing he never even addressed it
Would Jesus forbid the gospel being preached by a women?

I don't believe it is preaching or sharing the gospel that is a no go. I find it is position of authority such as a pastor, a position that sets the doctrinal tone. Reason being is I only have to look around. When we look at the data of a woman in charge of the family such as a single mom. We find that children have a higher chance of less than savory results.

I believe that no women are qualified and very few men. 10-20% of men are qualified to be in such a leadership position, this of course is my personal opinion. The bible says because the woman was deceived. There is nothing more deceiving than our own heart.
I find from just looking at the world that women are hypersensitive and men insensitive. I believe this happened during or at the fall.

So all this to say I find emotions is the problem and it is emotions that are deceiving. Not to say men don't do it but women are far more likely to have regrets in their life just because they were feeling a certain way at the time and acted upon it. I also find that as men we tend to remove accountability or the brunt of it from a woman for her actions. This is what abortion is all about. According to a study by the University of Michigan. If everything is equal between men and women if they are charged with the same exact crime. Men will do 7 times more the jail time. If women are even charged or found guilty as those rates are again higher for men.

Men since Adam we are way guilty of simping for women. Adam was not deceived he freely cast his lot with his wife. Men in general are consistently wiped over women. Not a good trait for us to have when a woman is in charge.

To me that is what the qualifications like 1 Timothy list for a man it is self control being in control of our emotions. Being in control of our flesh. I find one wife is hey buddy be content not lustful not wanting more. As well as the other qualifications it is being the ruler of your emotions.

Wanting more is a big problem of our emotions and our flesh. I have said somewhere here on the board that the biggest harm feminism does is tell a woman she can have it all. Because she will believe it then pursue it compounding her emotional and mental baggage.

That is what the devil did he told Eve she could have it all. Eve was wiling to trade it all away to have what she did not have. Adam was wiling to trade it all away to not lose what he had. This is a problem for both. I find that women believing they can be pastors is partly because of men's actions. We can look through various post here and see how men get all in their feelings and then respond as such. We have not set a good example.

That is why I find very few men are qualified for the leadership role of the church because they are no better at not letting their flesh or emotions get the better of them

 

[Beckworth]

Paul noted Junia as an Apostle in Romans 16:7
Junia (New Testament person) - Wikipedia

There is controversy over whether Junia was an apostle or not. The text is not clear. Junia was know among the apostles can also mean Junia was known to the apostles. Saying Judas was known among the Pharisees does not mean that Judas was a Pharisee.

 

[CS1]

This is always a hot topic. Yet Paul wrote as the Holy Spirit led him. He was taught by Christ. In the context of the church setting, women are not to have authority over the men who should be working in the position of their calling. There are many reasons why women have done this but it is not suppose to be. He who has an ear let him hear what the Spirit is says

Jesus said MATTHEW 19

And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”




Matthew 5:32 Jesus said This.


But I say that a man who divorces his wife, unless she has been unfaithful, causes her to commit adultery. You are the reason she is an adulterious. Because women have no other choice once the husband has put her away because she was old or they wanted to move on.


And anyone who marries a divorced woman also commits adultery.

Because men, Husbands and Fayhers are notndoing what God placed thr authority of doing as he did in theGarden of Eden, they have failed to do what God placed on them and thus forcing women to do what is not suppose to be just like when they divorced thier wife because of the hardness of their heart. As Jesus said.

Matthew 5:31

“It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.



Mark 10 says :


2The Pharisees came and asked Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?” testing Him.

3And He answered and said to them, “What did Moses command you?”

4They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce, and to dismiss her.”

5And Jesus answered and said to them, “Because of the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.
6But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’ 7‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

10 In the house His disciples also asked Him again about the same matter.

11 So He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. 12 And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”


The Husband pushed the issue according to Moses, which Jesus reaffirmed, causing the wife to become labeled with the Letter "A". In the same way men have caused women to do what they are not suppose to do and become what God called men to do. And it will be men who received the greater Judgement.

 

[Beckworth]

after they received the spirit at pentocost

“But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The reason I quoted this is because of this

“How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭14:26, 29‬ ‭KJV‬‬
clearly women would receive the gift of prophecy by the spirit after pentocost and clearly when the church gathered ( unlike today btw ) two or theee prophets were to speak whatever the lord had made known and the others were to listen and consider what they said.

Paul didn’t allow women to teach.

“But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now to me usurping authority is a different matter from being given the gift of prophecy and speaking to the congregation. But Paul says “ I do not allow a women to speak “

Jesus however , actually sent a woman to be the first to report his resurrection to the men folk who had all left by the time he rose up she remained there weeping and became the first commissioned witness of Jesus resurrection which is of course a main subject of the gospel.

aid the prophets are whos meant to speak in church and clearly women would receive the gift of prophecy by the Holy Ghost I don’t really see the issue in listening to what a woman has to say . Now there are both men and women who speak to congregations daily tbat are teaching wrong things but also those who are speaking good and correct things to the chrich

we’re so far from the biblical design of church it’s crazy . We have a pastor who speaks every week for a few minutes and then everyone claps . The design was for a group gathering where the whole congregation had some contributions one man a psalm of Hope another man a word of encouragement a couple prophets as the main speakers ect

Somewhere along the way we lost the truth of what’s still there

Joel 2 is not describing a church assembly. 1 Cor. 14:34 is. When the Holy Spirit was poured out in Acts 2, that was NOT “ when the whole church comes together” as it says in 1 Cor. 14:34. Every time the Spirit was poured out on women or others does not mean it was in a public assembly. There is no restriction placed on women, that I know of, about women prophesying in private. There is a difference in what we can do PRIVATELY and what we can do PUBLICLY in a church assembly. The topic here is women preachers. That’s a public church assembly. It seems some are not making that difference in the posts on this site. But that distinction is important. Paul says that women can’t teach PUBLICLY, in a church assembly. In other places he commands women to teach other wonen. And we have an example of women teaching children. And in Acts 18, a husband and wife team taught Apollos.

The woman sent to tell the apostles about Jesus’s resurrection was not teaching in a public assembly. Nor was she usurping authority over a man— she was delivering a message! Let’s be careful how we use the scriptures.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Joel 2 is not describing a church assembly. 1 Cor. 14:34 is. When the Holy Spirit was poured out in Acts 2, that was NOT “ when the whole church comes together” as it says in 1 Cor. 14:34. Every time the Spirit was poured out on women or others does not mean it was in a public assembly. There is no restriction placed on women, that I know of, about women prophesying in private. There is a difference in what we can do PRIVATELY and what we can do PUBLICLY in a church assembly. The topic here is women preachers. That’s a public church assembly. It seems some are not making that difference in the posts on this site. But that distinction is important. Paul says that women can’t teach PUBLICLY, in a church assembly. In other places he commands women to teach other wonen. And we have an example of women teaching children. And in Acts 18, a husband and wife team taught Apollos.

The woman sent to tell the apostles about Jesus’s resurrection was not teaching in a public assembly. Nor was she usurping authority over a man— she was delivering a message! Let’s be careful how we use the scriptures.

“Joel 2 is not describing a church assembly. “

Yea you obviously have a different opinion from me but that’s alright to me this is “the church setting “

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭

 

[CS1]

This is always a hot topic. Yet Paul wrote as the Holy Spirit led him. He was taught by Christ. In the context of the church setting, women are not to have authority over the men who should be working in the position of their calling. There are many reasons why women have done this but it is not suppose to be. He who has an ear let him hear what the Spirit is says

Jesus said MATTHEW 19

And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”




Matthew 5:32 Jesus said This.


But I say that a man who divorces his wife, unless she has been unfaithful, causes her to commit adultery. You are the reason she is an adulterious. Because women have no other choice once the husband has put her away because she was old or they wanted to move on.


And anyone who marries a divorced woman also commits adultery.

Because men, Husbands and Father's are not doing what God placed thr authority of doing as he did in the Garden of Eden, they have failed to do what God placed on them and thust forcing women to do what is not suppose to be just like when they divorced thier wife because of the hardness of their heart. As Jesus said.

Matthew 5:31

“It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.



Mark 10 says :


2The Pharisees came and asked Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?” testing Him.

3And He answered and said to them, “What did Moses command you?”

4They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce, and to dismiss her.”

5And Jesus answered and said to them, “Because of the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.
6 But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’ 7‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

10 In the house His disciples also asked Him again about the same matter.

11 So He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. 12 And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”


The Husband pushed the issue according to Moses, which Jesus reaffirmed, causing the wife to become labeled with the Letter "A". In the same way men have caused women to do what they are not suppose to do and become what God called men to do. And it will be men who received the greater Judgement.

 

[Mem]

 

[Beckworth]

Nothing in Matt 7 says what they will say to the Lord on that day is the truth. It didn't happen because Jesus didn't have a relationship with them.
One of my fav scriptures: Acts 5:32
New American Standard Bible
And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

Nothing in Matt. 7 says what they say to the Lord on that day is NOT the truth, either. That’s not proof of anything! You can’t say it didn’t happen—unless you are God and have divine knowledge. The Holy Spirit is the one writing this and He doesn’t say. But actually it doesn’t matter because the point is they were acting with no authority from God. Verse 23 tells us exactly why Jesus rejected them—they were practicing LAWLESSNESS. That means without law or “authority” from God.

And yes, you have just quoted Acts 2:38, where Peter says “… be baptized and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

But whether or not these people had a relationship with God is not the point either. The point Jesus is making is, you must abide in the doctrine of Christ or you don’t have God. Which is exactly what 2 John 9 says.

 

[Edify]

There is controversy over whether Junia was an apostle or not. The text is not clear. Junia was know among the apostles can also mean Junia was known to the apostles. Saying Judas was known among the Pharisees does not mean that Judas was a Pharisee.

How could Junia have been of great reputation among the apostles and not among of the rest of the church?
We can't really say. But we DO know that the writers of the KJV purposely changed her name to Junias.
WHY?

 

[Maori_Aussie]

There is controversy over whether Junia was an apostle or not. The text is not clear. Junia was know among the apostles can also mean Junia was known to the apostles. Saying Judas was known among the Pharisees does not mean that Judas was a Pharisee.

The early Church Fathers hold the exact opposite opinion.

 

[Blade]

Everyone knows Pauls words on women pastors or rather a women speaking or teaching in the church and at face value this would seem pretty clear however the context of the verse has to do with the issues that was going on in the church at the time but what really got me thinking was this right here

Galatians 3:28 states that in Christ Jesus, there is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor male nor female, for all are one. This verse emphasizes the equality and unity of believers in Christ, transcending traditional social and cultural divisions. It highlights that these categories, while still present in human society,
are not determinants of value or significance within the Christian community and so this verse got me thinking if this is to be true then why do we take Pauls words at face value he would be contradicting the himself
unless of course he was speaking in regards to what was going on in the church at the time then it would make sense not to mention what about the women who he even baosted about who ministered to people such as Junia?

This one verse just doesn't make sense to me if indeed women are subhuman in the church and Jesus himself never forbid women of such a thing he never even addressed it
Would Jesus forbid the gospel being preached by a women?

Head on over to say Iran and live there for awhile see how women are treated. My point is when reading some verses we need to understand just how they were living back then. Christ said “It is not good (appropriate, fair) to take the children's bread and throw it to the pet dogs.” Yet that faith moved Him.. awesome!

There were woman Prophets blah balh balh. What we can do is stop Him from doing what He wants to do.

 

[Edify]

Nothing in Matt. 7 says what they say to the Lord on that day is NOT the truth, either. That’s not proof of anything! You can’t say it didn’t happen—unless you are God and have divine knowledge. The Holy Spirit is the one writing this and He doesn’t say. But actually it doesn’t matter because the point is they were acting with no authority from God. Verse 23 tells us exactly why Jesus rejected them—they were practicing LAWLESSNESS. That means without law or “authority” from God.

And yes, you have just quoted Acts 2:38, where Peter says “… be baptized and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

But whether or not these people had a relationship with God is not the point either. The point Jesus is making is, you must abide in the doctrine of Christ or you don’t have God. Which is exactly what 2 John 9 says.

When Jesus says "I never knew you", He means it. Which means they either didn't do it or did it with wrong motives.
I didn't quote Acts 2:38 either.
The last paragraph is incorrect. Relationship is everything. No relationship, no doctrine keeping.

 

[Maori_Aussie]

The very first evangelist to proclaim the Lord's resurrection, sent by the risen Lord, Jesus Christ Himself: Mary Magdalene.

Jesus obviously did not know "the rules". <sarcasm>
How dare he first reveal His Messiahship to a Samaritan Women Sinner, and not say, one of his male Disciples?