The double-standards of the preterist and why I left that system
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From what I remember going back to 2016 and a former member who was a full preterist was banned for denying a certain future expected return.
I will say, his reasoning and biblical argumentation was sound and that is when I began to reconsider, it helped that I was not completely brainwashed by the Tim LaHaye types.
One of the best things that every happened to me in terms of my spiritual growth and better understanding of all scripture.
I am fine with private PMs if you have that option (I do not).
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I think if we just read longer sections for instance the op mentions this
“But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be…..
but when Jesus is done telling them what’s about to happen in Jerusalem to them preparing them he eventually comes to this place
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”
Matthew 24:20-21, 34 KJV
that part tells us it was going to happen in that generation which 70 ad was about appx 30 yrs after Jesus told them and prepared them for the destruction of Jerusalem and it’s desolation.
“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. ( it’s about the things in the ot being fulfilled the wrath upon jerusalem ) But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
Luke 21:20-24 KJV
Nothing ever says it’s going to be rebuilt in the nt but after the time of the gentiles being allowed into the kingdom then Christ will return
The temples purpose was a holy place for Gods spirit to dwell in the center of and he could dwell
Among the people this way be among his chosen israelite people ….but that’s the Old Testament now he has a temple already
“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.”
1 Corinthians 3:16-17 KJV
“in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”
Ephesians 2:21-22 KJV
God doesn’t need a building now he has a church to dwell within and among that’s new there’s no purpose any longer for a temple …..it has no function anymore there’s no building on earth God will dwell within because he dwells in believers and they in him . There’s a place restored Jerusalem but no temple in it
“And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. ….And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. ( he describes the city )
….And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.”
Revelation 21:2, 9, 22 KJV
There’s no more need for an imperfect levite priest to sacrifice animals blood upon an altar , and the veil was already torn to hide the inner most holy place .
No more need for the daily sacrifices ect if you break it down everything the temple was built for is already fulfilled in Christianity .
Jerusalem will eventually be revealed but for now it’s a heavenly place and will come from heaven to earth
“But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be…..
but when Jesus is done telling them what’s about to happen in Jerusalem to them preparing them he eventually comes to this place
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”
Matthew 24:20-21, 34 KJV
that part tells us it was going to happen in that generation which 70 ad was about appx 30 yrs after Jesus told them and prepared them for the destruction of Jerusalem and it’s desolation.
“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. ( it’s about the things in the ot being fulfilled the wrath upon jerusalem ) But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
Luke 21:20-24 KJV
Nothing ever says it’s going to be rebuilt in the nt but after the time of the gentiles being allowed into the kingdom then Christ will return
The temples purpose was a holy place for Gods spirit to dwell in the center of and he could dwell
Among the people this way be among his chosen israelite people ….but that’s the Old Testament now he has a temple already
“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.”
1 Corinthians 3:16-17 KJV
“in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”
Ephesians 2:21-22 KJV
God doesn’t need a building now he has a church to dwell within and among that’s new there’s no purpose any longer for a temple …..it has no function anymore there’s no building on earth God will dwell within because he dwells in believers and they in him . There’s a place restored Jerusalem but no temple in it
“And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. ….And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. ( he describes the city )
….And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.”
Revelation 21:2, 9, 22 KJV
There’s no more need for an imperfect levite priest to sacrifice animals blood upon an altar , and the veil was already torn to hide the inner most holy place .
No more need for the daily sacrifices ect if you break it down everything the temple was built for is already fulfilled in Christianity .
Jerusalem will eventually be revealed but for now it’s a heavenly place and will come from heaven to earth
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after the city is revealed it’s described
“And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.”
Revelation 21:22
But Not of this world
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth:
for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”
Revelation 21:1 KJV
Not of this world
“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.”
2 Peter 3:7 KJV
“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(of this promised world )
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
2 Peter 3:10, 13
agreed there’s no temple needed now and in eternity in the new world …… there isnt one
“And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.”
Revelation 21:22
But Not of this world
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth:
for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”
Revelation 21:1 KJV
Not of this world
“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.”
2 Peter 3:7 KJV
“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(of this promised world )
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
2 Peter 3:10, 13
agreed there’s no temple needed now and in eternity in the new world …… there isnt one
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I think the Jewish temple will be rebuilt - not because God wants it rebuilt - but that the antichrist does, even more than the Jews want it. He needs it to declare himself God. I know it's ridiculous and none of the Christians will accept him as he's already a big joke and a non-self aware loser, but the rest of world won't know that.
I think the antichrist (who isn't Muslim) will be so desperate to have it built that he won't care if the Muslims get mad at him to destroy the Dome of the Rock and whatever else is there to the third temple built.
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This is an idea that (in my experience) has always been associated with the New Jerusalem after the GWTJ (which is after the Millennium) rather than during the Millennium. I believe the idea of it being suspended up in the sky comes from this verse:
Revelation 21:
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
- as if it were like a 'sun' of sorts, lighting the [whole] earth below.
Personally, I believe it will come down all the way to the earth.
Revelation 21:
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
- as if it were like a 'sun' of sorts, lighting the [whole] earth below.
Personally, I believe it will come down all the way to the earth.
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That the phrase is used with the perspective of the son of perdition without regard of what it actually doesn't change the message that he, the son of perdition, assumes the validity of successfully accomplishing such a position as "'standing' where it ought not.' Before the torn veil, there was no one, other than the high priest, was permitted behind the veil and nor could anyone (else) "stand" if anyone dared to venture it (is the account for the requirement of the rope being tied to the priest's ankle written within scripture or is it only hearsay?). Wasn't Satan cast out of heaven for the very notion that he could 'ascend above the throne of God'?
yeah brother could be I’m just speaking from my perspective and opinion from things I’ve read and considered, certainly not here to tell you you’re wrong or anything.
But if you examine the nt prophecy and scripture at what point do we see it rebuilt ? That would be all I would need to convert my thinking but I’ve never seen it in the doctrine
I understand your saying because of this then the temple needs to be rebuilt
“Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 KJV
i just don’t see this as a rebuilding of a jewish temple in the end times before the lord returns. But it’s just what I think doesn’t mean you are wrong
But if you examine the nt prophecy and scripture at what point do we see it rebuilt ? That would be all I would need to convert my thinking but I’ve never seen it in the doctrine
I understand your saying because of this then the temple needs to be rebuilt
“Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 KJV
i just don’t see this as a rebuilding of a jewish temple in the end times before the lord returns. But it’s just what I think doesn’t mean you are wrong
I think it is significant that God doesn't even treat the building of the third temple like it is a prophecy - because it really isn't. It's not something He is backing with His approval and support. He's just acknowledging that the antichrist (and the poor unknowing Jews) really wants it built.
I looked up how long would it take to build it, and since the Jews have all the materials and building parts completed, they can complete it within supposedly 7 years. BUT the Jews can start daily animal sacrifices even earlier without waiting for it to be completed.
This may be a time to signal to Christians to start getting ready for the great tribulation, building up your endurance first and foremost and then doing everything God tells you to get ready to endure to the end or till He takes you home before that.
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I haven't committed to the following idea - just asking about it to see if it could fit. I know you are aware of the lies told to make people believe Earth is a ball - what if similar lies were told to try to deny the millennial kingdom of Christ?
I think the answer to this question is the same, whether we are talking the below passage with the millennial kingdom in the past, or to come - it doesn't make sense to me. How can Satan do this with Jesus reigning on Earth? Is the passage explicit that Jesus is on Earth when this happens? How can people in their right minds be deceived by Satan when Jesus has been reigning on Earth for 1000 years? I don't know.
Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
I think the answers to all of these would be yes (given the initial assumption), and prior to the kingdom coming. There is strange, poorly explained archeological evidence - what appears to be melted cities (i.e. as if destroyed by extreme heat/fire). Some of the accounts of the black death are that it was more of a supernatural event than a natural plague - I don't believe the current explanation does justice to the alleged fatality rate from it. Some estimates are that a third of the people were killed by it, that it was spread by supernatural entities (i.e. similar to a judgement described in Revelation).
Yes, there would have to be deception involved, but you would also admit that Satan has been pretty good at that with what you're aware of.
I think the answer to this question is the same, whether we are talking the below passage with the millennial kingdom in the past, or to come - it doesn't make sense to me. How can Satan do this with Jesus reigning on Earth? Is the passage explicit that Jesus is on Earth when this happens? How can people in their right minds be deceived by Satan when Jesus has been reigning on Earth for 1000 years? I don't know.
Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
I think the answers to all of these would be yes (given the initial assumption), and prior to the kingdom coming. There is strange, poorly explained archeological evidence - what appears to be melted cities (i.e. as if destroyed by extreme heat/fire). Some of the accounts of the black death are that it was more of a supernatural event than a natural plague - I don't believe the current explanation does justice to the alleged fatality rate from it. Some estimates are that a third of the people were killed by it, that it was spread by supernatural entities (i.e. similar to a judgement described in Revelation).
Yes, there would have to be deception involved, but you would also admit that Satan has been pretty good at that with what you're aware of.
“He's just acknowledging that the antichrist (and the poor unknowing Jews) really wants it built.”
where is he acknowledging this ?
Do you know that the temple mound now is and has been under Islamic control for hundreds of years and on tbe temple mound itself there sits the Islamic mosque that states in its ceiling “ God has no son “ ?
a religion tbat exalts this false alla as the most high God ? Claiming he is God ? Denying Christs divinity and name as the son of God ? Denying his death and resurrection ect
The bible is pretty thorough really usually repeating things again and again in various ways. It tells really detailed about the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem repetetively but after the temple is made desolate nothing in the nt ever says it will be rebuilt ( as far as I know I mean )
But again to be clear these are just my thoughts regarding it , it doesn’t mean I’m right and you are wrong. I think even if it was the antichrist who would have the temple rebuilt it would be a featured subject in the nt especially because it would really then hold importance in doctrine
my opinion is that the temple the son of perdition sits as god in ….. is a false church worshipping a false messiah
where is he acknowledging this ?
Do you know that the temple mound now is and has been under Islamic control for hundreds of years and on tbe temple mound itself there sits the Islamic mosque that states in its ceiling “ God has no son “ ?
a religion tbat exalts this false alla as the most high God ? Claiming he is God ? Denying Christs divinity and name as the son of God ? Denying his death and resurrection ect
The bible is pretty thorough really usually repeating things again and again in various ways. It tells really detailed about the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem repetetively but after the temple is made desolate nothing in the nt ever says it will be rebuilt ( as far as I know I mean )
But again to be clear these are just my thoughts regarding it , it doesn’t mean I’m right and you are wrong. I think even if it was the antichrist who would have the temple rebuilt it would be a featured subject in the nt especially because it would really then hold importance in doctrine
my opinion is that the temple the son of perdition sits as god in ….. is a false church worshipping a false messiah
I say God acknowledges it because He allows it to be mentioned in the Bible, that's all.
Yeah, it's going to be interesting how the antichrist will get rid of the Dome of the Rock and other Muslim structures there. He will probably play dirty so the Muslims won't even be able to stop him from destroying it to get the third temple built.
I think God makes it insignificant because it's not really that important to Him. The Jews and the antichrist are clinging to some past false glory that means nothing to Him. I mean think about it - the antichrist is only going to be in power for 3-1/2 years - 7 years if you count the 3-1/2 year priors to him abolishing the daily sacrifices and desecrating the temple. That's not very long - even Hitler reigned longer - 12 years! Plus the antichrist and false prophet get defeated in the most humiliating way - worse than what Hitler went through. I mean Jesus as the warrior king won't even have to fully level up His Super Saiyan powers!
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Yeah, I agree this is the only thing that even could happen now, but it still wouldn't be what scripture describes, the AC desecrates the "Holy Place", and that can't be some fake false temple men decided to rebuild. You can't desolate a fraud, it's a desecration in itself. This doesn't even consider the fact that the whole sacrificial Temple system had one purpose, to point to Jesus. Another Temple would be a slap to the face of the King who has already fulfilled salvation and reconciling mans spirit back to His. A 3rd temple makes no sense on any level.