Blasphemy against holyspirit

[sawdust]

I believe the "context" indicates that there is only one unforgiveable sin of blasphemy against the HS (Matt.12:31),
and so Jesus must have been referring to the unforgivable sin of apostasy Paul described in Heb.6:4-6,
or else there would be two.

You may have no trouble with Scripture contradicting itself, but I prefer harmonizing when possible.

There is no contradiction because you failed to see the ones blaspheming the Spirit in Matt. are unbelievers. The believers in Hebrews are not blaspheming the Holy Spirit they are shaming Christ. You are not harmonizing scripture you are stretching what only an unbeliever can do to make a believer do it. It is simply not possible for a believer to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Can they blaspheme God? Yes, because Jesus said there is more than one type of blasphemy.

Matthew 12:31
“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.

Matthew 12:32
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

You are trying to compare apples and oranges. Those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit do not believe, have never believed and never will believe which is why they will not be forgiven.

 

[GWH]

There is no contradiction because you failed to see the ones blaspheming the Spirit in Matt. are unbelievers. The believers in Hebrews are not blaspheming the Holy Spirit they are shaming Christ. You are not harmonizing scripture you are stretching what only an unbeliever can do to make a believer do it. It is simply not possible for a believer to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Can they blaspheme God? Yes, because Jesus said there is more than one type of blasphemy.

Matthew 12:31
“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.

Matthew 12:32
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

You are trying to compare apples and oranges. Those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit do not believe, have never believed and never will believe which is why they will not be forgiven.

Even if the Pharisees were unbelievers/unsaved, 1 + 1 = 2,
so there is the contradiction between MT 12:31 & HB 6:4-6 you fail to see and harmonize.

 

[sawdust]

Even if the Pharisees were unbelievers/unsaved, 1 + 1 = 2,
so there is the contradiction between MT 12:31 & HB 6:4-6 you fail to see and harmonize.

That doesn't even make sense. How do you harmonise contradictions? Contradictions by their very nature are in opposition.

There is nothing to harmonise. Matthew passage is blasphemy of the Spirit. Hebrews passage is shaming Christ. Two different wrongs.

 

[GWH]

That doesn't even make sense. How do you harmonise contradictions? Contradictions by their very nature are in opposition.

There is nothing to harmonise. Matthew passage is blasphemy of the Spirit. Hebrews passage is shaming Christ. Two different wrongs.

Okay, make that "apparent contradiction", but "two" still contradicts 1 until/unless you harmonize.

 

[sawdust]

Okay, make that "apparent contradiction", but "two" still contradicts 1 until/unless you harmonize.

I think I'll stop now. You're starting to make less and less sense. There is no contradiction, it is two different types of sin by two different types of people.

 

[GWH]

I think I'll stop now. You're starting to make less and less sense. There is no contradiction, it is two different types of sin by two different types of people.

But which ONE is unforgivable?

 

[presidente]

Did I miss where you reconciled MT 12:31, etc. with HB 6:4-6?

I'm not going to change clear straightforward meanings of words in passages to try to reconcile them.

We are saved by grace through faith. Without that, we cannot be saved. Speaking against the Holy Spirit is an unforgiveable sin for which there is no forgiveness in this age or the age to come, Christ taught.

 

[sawdust]

But which ONE is unforgivable?

Obvious.

The unsaved in Matthew who have rejected goodness itself, let alone the source of all good, God Almighty.

The Hebrew people (who are saved) will not repent from animal sacrifices, thinking they are still "in vogue" even though they had been taught Christ's sacrifice is sufficient.

Some Christians just can't be taught certain doctrines no matter how much one may point out their error and inconsistencies.

Nothing new under the sun.

 

[JohnRH]

It is simply not possible for a believer to blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

Is it possible for a believer to verbalize the words, "Holy Spirit, you are blankety-blank"; where 'blankety-blank' includes every cuss/curse word imaginable, Beelzebub, prince of demons, unclean spirit, etc.?

 

[sawdust]

Is it possible for a believer to verbalize the words, "Holy Spirit, you are blankety-blank"; where 'blankety-blank' includes every cuss/curse word imaginable, Beelzebub, prince of demons, unclean spirit, etc.?

If you look at the Matthew 12 passage you will find those who are blaspheming the Holy Spirit are calling a good work as coming from the source of evil. It is far worse than simple name calling.

They cannot be forgiven, not because God refuses to extend mercy, but because they are incapable of discerning the good from the bad. They are not believers, have never been believers and never will be believers. Believers are forgiven.

 

[GWH]

I'm not going to change clear straightforward meanings of words in passages to try to reconcile them.

We are saved by grace through faith. Without that, we cannot be saved. Speaking against the Holy Spirit is an unforgiveable sin for which there is no forgiveness in this age or the age to come, Christ taught.

Then I guess you are content with double-talk, but I prefer to follow the example of Jesus:

TOJ #4: Harmonize all truth. [Matt. 4:7a] Jesus implied this important logical/hermeneutical principle to apply when seeking the correct understanding of GW by saying, “It is also written”. If the Spirit of God inspired the biblical writers (2Pet. 1:20-21) and created the world (Gen. 1:1-3), then the best interpretation of a TOJ should harmonize the totality of revealed and scientific knowledge.

In his second temptation the devil quoted Scripture (Psa. 91:11-12) as though he were heeding TOJ #3 about learning GW, but he attempted to deceive Jesus with a false interpretation so He would perform a miracle.

 

[GWH]

Obvious.

The unsaved in Matthew who have rejected goodness itself, let alone the source of all good, God Almighty.

The Hebrew people (who are saved) will not repent from animal sacrifices, thinking they are still "in vogue" even though they had been taught Christ's sacrifice is sufficient.

Some Christians just can't be taught certain doctrines no matter how much one may point out their error and inconsistencies.

Nothing new under the sun.

Yes and some people can't be taught obvious math. (1 unpardonable unsaved + 1 unpardonable formerly saved = 2 unpardonable sins)

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Is it possible for a believer to verbalize the words, "Holy Spirit, you are blankety-blank"; where 'blankety-blank' includes every cuss/curse word imaginable, Beelzebub, prince of demons, unclean spirit, etc.?

How do you define believer? Believer = Christian? Because demons believe too - they just don't obey. I can see demons be able to blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

But a Christian who has the seal of the Holy Spirit on them and abides in Him??? Who causes us to grow in godliness in Christ's image??? I can't imagine that. Why would we want to? He's so good to us!

Maybe if they stop abiding in Him and no longer allow Him to empower them to do good.

 

[sawdust]

Yes and some people can't be taught obvious math. (1 unpardonable unsaved + 1 unpardonable formerly saved = 2 unpardonable sins)

The Hebrew people have shamed Christ. There is absolutely nothing said in the passage about blaspheming the Holy Spirit. You are simply making that part up. They will not repent from adding animal sacrifices to Christ's sacrifice. They have not said Christ's sacrifice is from the source of evil which is what one must do to blaspheme the Spirit.

 

[GWH]

How do you define believer? Believer = Christian? Because demons believe too - they just don't obey. I can see demons be able to blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

But a Christian who has the seal of the Holy Spirit on them and abides in Him??? Who causes us to grow in godliness in Christ's image??? I can't imagine that. Why would we want to? He's so good to us!

Maybe if they stop abiding in Him and no longer allow Him to empower them to do good.

Yes, such a person would be a former believer, and cursing the HS would be an outward sign of their inner repudiation of saving faith.

 

[GWH]

The Hebrew people have shamed Christ. There is absolutely nothing said in the passage about blaspheming the Holy Spirit. You are simply making that part up. They will not repent from adding animal sacrifices to Christ's sacrifice. They have not said Christ's sacrifice is from the source of evil which is what one must do to blaspheme the Spirit.

Well, everyone should read Hebrews 6:4-6 and decide whether you are making up animal sacrifices or the unforgivable sin (blaspheming the HS) is implied.

 

[sawdust]

Well, everyone should read Hebrews 6:4-6 and decide whether you are making up animal sacrifices or the unforgivable sin (blaspheming the HS) is implied.

Yes they should and they can decide whether continuing to sacrifice a spotless lamb for a sin offering is the same as crucifying Christ again or if doing what was required under the Law prior to the crucifixion is blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

 

[JohnRH]

It is far worse than simple name calling.

I appreciate your reply.

 

[presidente]

Then I guess you are content with double-talk, but I prefer to follow the example of Jesus:

TOJ #4: Harmonize all truth. [Matt. 4:7a] Jesus implied this important logical/hermeneutical principle to apply when seeking the correct understanding of GW by saying, “It is also written”. If the Spirit of God inspired the biblical writers (2Pet. 1:20-21) and created the world (Gen. 1:1-3), then the best interpretation of a TOJ should harmonize the totality of revealed and scientific knowledge.

In his second temptation the devil quoted Scripture (Psa. 91:11-12) as though he were heeding TOJ #3 about learning GW, but he attempted to deceive Jesus with a false interpretation so He would perform a miracle.

If someone doesn't believe or doesn't repent and isn't forgiven, why would that have to be 'reconciled' with the idea that speaking against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven?

People can commit forgivable sins, but not repent and believe and be forgiven. But other people who commit the same sins repent and believe and are forgiven. That doesn't have to be the same category as villifying the Holy Spirit. These words actually have meaning.

I could insist that blasphemy means 'eating chocolate on the weekend.' The problem is, that has nothing to do with what 'blasphemy' means.

 

[presidente]

They have not said Christ's sacrifice is from the source of evil which is what one must do to blaspheme the Spirit.

huh? The passage in question tells us that speaking against the Son of man can be forgiven. Do you think the Holy Spirit IS the sacrifice on the cross? That doesn't make much sense.