Read Acts13 and later and realize Paul's history in Corinth teaching for 3.5 years. He begins 1Cor15 referring them back to the Good News he had taught them. In Acts13 he had proclaimed Christ's death, burial and resurrection within a more comprehensive Gospel to Jews and God-fearing Gentiles, wherein he also referenced Ps2 to tie Jesus into being YHWH's Christ & King.
Loss of salvation???
- Thread starter gratefuloneson
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Read Acts13 and later and realize Paul's history in Corinth teaching for 3.5 years. He begins 1Cor15 referring them back to the Good News he had taught them. In Acts13 he had proclaimed Christ's death, burial and resurrection within a more comprehensive Gospel to Jews and God-fearing Gentiles, wherein he also referenced Ps2 to tie Jesus into being YHWH's Christ & King.
Well, if you want to miss the point?
You found a way.
Have you ever been taught from the Levitical sacrifices how the sins of the sinner were transferred to the innocent, pure lamb?
Transferred to be slaughtered as that lamb bore the sins?
Jesus saw in deep prayer what was to become of him.
The Father did not pull any punches with Jesus.
He always let Jesus know what was to happen.
Jesus revealed this ability to know the bad, when he needed to rebuke Peter. Peter could not handle the truth.
Matthew 16:21-23
From that time, Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem
and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed,
and on the third day be raised.
And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, “Far be it from you, Lord!
This shall never happen to you.”
But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me.
For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.”
Jesus while in the Garden in deep prayer was shown the horrible things he would be made subject to.So intense, and horrible, in fact. Jesus began to sweat blood.
selah....
John 18 verses 37b-38a “You say that I am a king,” Jesus answered. “For this reason I was born and have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to My voice.” “What is truth?” Pilate asked.
OK, I just wondered if you knew what the authors were talking about when they said "put Him to an open shame." Evidently you have an opinion of what that text means, and that is very OK: all are entitled to an opinion.
Of course @Magenta you would red x it.
The Lord Jesus Christ is just some Soveriegn being in your theology.
He could never be a caring, loving and JUST GOD.
He cares for and seeks you. Screw everybody else.
Telling believers they can lose salvation, walk away from salvation or forfeit salvation is putting the Lord Jesus Christ to open shame.
The Jewish believers were going back to the Law and animal sacrifice. Because they thought they needed to maintain salvation or keep working for salvation.
They had fallen away.
He died ONCE for you. You can NEVER perish.
He can't die again for you, and you can't be saved again........Once saved always saved. Eternal security.
I'll red-X it for you!
You simply do not understand that He struggled with both his desire to fulfill God's plan along with the fact that the Father would forsake Him. The very thought of one moment without the Father was more than enough to make Him sweat blood! Even so, He willingly laid down His life for us.........................
Does that make you think less of Him? If so, please see my disclaimer below.
I'll red-X it for you!
You simply do not understand that He struggled with both his desire to fulfill God's plan along with the fact that the Father would forsake Him. The very thought of one moment without the Father was more than enough to make Him sweat blood! Even so, He willingly laid down His life for us.........................
Does that make you think less of Him? If so, please see my disclaimer below.
Of course you would red x it. I would expect nothing less from a calvie.
Having to judge the world and unbelievers is a joy for calvies. But It was DEVASTATING for the Lord Jesus Christ.
From 2 Timothy 1 verses 8b-9 Join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God. He has saved us and called us to a holy life - not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.
Some people have a very fanciful way of reading Scripture. Somehow in their skewedI'll red-X it for you!
You simply do not understand that He struggled with both his desire to fulfill God's plan along with the fact that
the Father would forsake Him. The very thought of one moment without the Father was more than enough to
make Him sweat blood! Even so, He willingly laid down His life for us.........................
Does that make you think less of Him? If so, please see my disclaimer below.
way of looking at things, Jesus hates the thought of rightful judgment, even though they
yell about God being righteous and just. They make little sense. Then they talk about what
a loathsome job it will be for Him as if God does not know the hearts and acts of men already.
Righteousness Of Christ ~ “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.” You were dead in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. The Son gives life to whom He is pleased to give it. If Christ is in you, your spirit is alive because of righteousness. We put on the righteousness of Christ.
Now you're rationalizing a justification that just doesn't work, my friend. You still have not explained how you could think that Paul was the kind of man who would leave out one of only two requirements spoken by Peter. How could you ever think that Paul would leave something of eternal importance out? We're not talking about an exhaustive list, but just TWO items that Peter instructed the JEWISH audience before him in Acts 2...repentance (which speaks of faith centered upon Christ as THEIR Messiah) and baptism unto the remission of sins.
You can squirm and wiggle around all you want to try and get out from under the glaring differences between the two gospels, but laying the gauntlet of guilt at the feet of Paul for having left out one of the only TWO elements for salvation for Israel laid over onto the Gentiles, you're arguing from silence and from trying to justify your failure to rightly divide the word of truth.
Everything in the Bible is true, but not all the truths in the Bible were written TO us today who are under GRACE. That's the basis of the fact that we ALL are therefore DISPENSATIONAL. Water baptism, no matter what intellectual gymnastics you try to pull, is a work added to grace, which nullifies grace. Paul made that argument very well...so well in fact, that the intellectual, spiritual, and downright dishonest comparatives so many apply to this topic in defense of bogus church traditions and the false doctrines therein, you're left with a totally bankrupt system of understanding about salvation itself. I'm not talking about good works after salvation, but only about salvation itself.
Additionally, this crap about allegedly losing one's salvation, I have yet to see any one of these people point out just one individual whom they can prove lost their salvation, including themselves without it spilling out into the arena of emotional argumentation, coupled with misapplication of definitions for key words in the verses they dredge up from the contexts within which those verses are actually couched.
The failed and feeble argument that "eternal salvation" is just too easy. Show me one Roman Catholic, for example, who will ever make it to Heaven on the basis of their multitudes of works through sacraments and self-effort, and I'll show to you an all-powerful, almighty god who can create a rock too large for himself to lift! As always, dichotomies cannot be rationalized.
So, I would hope that you be honest about the fact that nobody, absolutely nobody in their right mind, truly serving the Lord Most High would leave out one of just TWO elements about something as important as salvation. His writings were for posterity and continued preaching of TRUTH, and no truly qualified teacher would leave out something so important if it were still a valid requirement, and I think you know that very well but just don't want to admit it. This game of slight of hand on the basis of "summarized" is just pure nonsense, and I'm surprised that someone of your intellectual prowess would sink to that level.
Seriously? I mean, come on!
MM
My first response to you this morning after having the pleasure of analyzing some Scripture on another thread with a respectful fellow-student of the Word I can't voice and even have to deal with between myself and our Father.
Why is it you supposedly enlightened Christians feel the need to deal with one another like this? The way I read our instruction, there's no reason to feel accomplished in such behavior or to draw our siblings into our divisive ire.
Maybe you feel like the Lord's champion for defending Him, so why not just jump to the chase and clearly pronounce your anathema for my alleged false gospel.
What a mess.
Maybe later.
Again, I'm astounded that anyone would go to such lengths to avoid the rug burn when called out into the carpet for such grievous errors. Even Paul asked the Gentiles who has bewitched them. Playing the victim card is something I would have thought would be beneath you. Accusing me of trying to defend the Lord...come on! I was defending against an accusation laid at the feet of Paul, not the Lord.
I can see there's no reasoning with you. I never attacked your character, but only your methods and the topic. It appears you're not willing to deal with the topic at hand while trying to make it personal.
"My dad can beat up your dad..."
Sheesh!
Oh, well, next...
MM
Folks, I'd like to ask that we all reason together without the juvenality of playing the victim card and applying all manner of other antics to try and avoid justifying a position any one of us takes on a topic. That goes for myself as well. I WANT to be challenged about what I state as my current belief, because if I'm rationally and theologically wrong, then convince me as to why. The world around us plays the victim card so much that it's nothing but tattered papers blowing in the winds of subjectivism, figuratively speaking.
The question still remains, WHO have any of you know who lost their salvation, and HOW do you know that without any vestige or shadow of a doubt? How did you prove it to the point that you believe it with absolute certainty apart from emotions, feelings in your chest, burning bosom, et al?
Thanks
MM
The question still remains, WHO have any of you know who lost their salvation, and HOW do you know that without any vestige or shadow of a doubt? How did you prove it to the point that you believe it with absolute certainty apart from emotions, feelings in your chest, burning bosom, et al?
Thanks
MM
No one knows anything with absolute certainty other than the unavoidable a priori truths cited in Lesson 1 of our website,
but I have known people who once claimed to be Christians and then repudiated that faith.