Concerning the gift of tongues

[randyk]

No one can claim that what they today are labeling as "speaking in tongues" is anything like what the New Testament presents.

The foundation of the Pentecostal movement is based on pure speculation.

Yes, far be it from me to say that tongues is not a gift of the Spirit. The bible expressly says so.

On the other hand, what Pentecostals teach today goes far beyond the Gift of Tongues, making it into a Prayer Language that is supposedly available to anybody who choose to move their mouths and "let the Spirit fill that mouth with words." Not being funny....

 

[DJT_47]

yes but it said when did it say it would cease? when completeness comes right? as far as I know considering the chapter itself completeness has not come yet read the full chapter and see what paul was talking about

When that which is perfect, and tge perfect means the perfect man, meaning the body of Christ; and those words were directed to the Corinthians who had a myriad of issues. The perfection of the body of Christ obviously differed from congregation to congregation, so, thst perfection could have meant different timing to different congregational bodies.

 

[Kroogz]

On the other hand, what Pentecostals teach today goes far beyond the Gift of Tongues, making it into a Prayer Language that is supposedly available to anybody

Which is contradictory to the Christian way of life. We are commanded to grow in His Grace and Knowledge.......To KNOW His will and what to pray for.

 

[DJT_47]

You might want to give that a lot more thought. Do we presently know all things as we are known thoroughly by God Himself? No. Has some kind of "perfect" come that had not come when Paul wrote those words? No.

Will revelatory gifts cease at some point? Yes, clearly... because there will be no need for them. The need still exists, therefore the gifts still exist.

You are twisting the words of scripture a bit. It doesn't say all things. And see my responses elsewhere regarding "that which is perfect" which addresses yours and others incorrect view of what these scriptures mean. If you can't find my other writings, I'll repost, but the subject matter is extensive.

 

[DJT_47]

Gee. Most cessationists only state 2 or 3 have ceased. But I mean if you are going to apply that kind of thinking at all, why not just dive right in and do away with them all?

All the miraculous manifestations of the Spirit, those gifts listed in 1 cor 12:8-10, have ceased. These gifts were made manifest, or were enabled by the laying on of the apostle's hands, who are long dead.

 

[Kroogz]

You are twisting the words of scripture a bit. It doesn't say all things. And see my responses elsewhere regarding "that which is perfect" which addresses yours and others incorrect view of what these scriptures mean. If you can't find my other writings, I'll repost, but the subject matter is extensive.

It comes down to the question: 'Is Gods word enough and efficient to carry out His purpose?"

Do we need more?

Can His word fulfill all His purposes?

Yes, yes it can.

 

[ocean]

All the miraculous manifestations of the Spirit, those gifts listed in 1 cor 12:8-10, have ceased. These gifts were made manifest, or were enabled by the laying on of the apostle's hands, who are long dead.

Haven't you read past the book of Acts? If you had, you would know that this response of yours is also DOA

 

[ocean]

Such claims are merely that, and such testimony may actually serve to discourage those
who think they also should "know" Jesus face to face or walk with him by proof rather than by faith.
Rather than going gaga over glossalalia, Paul indicated that we should seek the more excellent way of love and witnessing with words.

So then we should draw a big line through scripture indicating we should DESIRE spiritual gifts? Let's go gaga over Jesus and stop ignoring what His disciple to the Gentiles wrote. However you may censor the Holy Spirit in your life all you want and come out the poorer for it

 

[ocean]

It comes down to the question: 'Is Gods word enough and efficient to carry out His purpose?"

Do we need more?

Can His word fulfill all His purposes?

Yes, yes it can.

So the parts of the NT, regarding instructions on the use of spiritual gifts, you know, God's word because after all it IS in the Bible, is allowed to fulfill all of His purposes? So then you will surely follow those sure words, right?

 

[ocean]

When that which is perfect, and tge perfect means the perfect man, meaning the body of Christ; and those words were directed to the Corinthians who had a myriad of issues. The perfection of the body of Christ obviously differed from congregation to congregation, so, thst perfection could have meant different timing to different congregational bodies.

Please indicate where you found perfect means the body of Christ or as you say 'the perfect man.' Perfection means different with different 'timing' ( I don't eve know what you mean by that) to different congregations?

I would like to see the scripture wherein you found these explanations

 

[Kroogz]

So the parts of the NT, regarding instructions on the use of spiritual gifts, you know, God's word because after all it IS in the Bible, is allowed to fulfill all of His purposes? So then you will surely follow those sure words, right?

x

 

[Kroogz]

So the parts of the NT, regarding instructions on the use of spiritual gifts, you know, God's word because after all it IS in the Bible, is allowed to fulfill all of His purposes? So then you will surely follow those sure words, right?

What would you use for your witness?

Your supernatural ability?Or His word?

 

[Wansvic]

Right. But we are sealed with the Holy Spirit when we believe. I hope you are not saying if we do not speak in tongues or have been filled different from salvation itself, we are not saved. I know you believe if we are not water baptized we are not saved. Neither belief is found in scripture. I have seen your posts in other threads so I hope you are not presenting something other than what is actually in scripture here

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, Eph. 1:13

What is the word of truth, the gospel of salvation referenced in Ephesians? The scripture specifically states those who trusted in Jesus believed the word of truth and were sealed with the Holy Ghost of promise.

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," Eph. 1:13

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized (their belief of the word of truth prompted by their trust in Jesus prompted them to act): and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:38-42

 

[Taylorj2]

What is the word of truth, the gospel of salvation referenced in Ephesians? The scripture specifically states those who trusted in Jesus believed the word of truth and were sealed with the Holy Ghost of promise.

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," Eph. 1:13

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized (their belief of the word of truth prompted by their trust in Jesus prompted them to act): and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:38-42

I would like to make a case that Spirit Baptism that is referred to 1 Cor. 12:13

But I do have a question for you, my brother/sister: What happens to a Muslim who receives Christ, and then goes home to his parents, and his father finds that he has converted to Christianity and kills the new convert? Does he go to hell or is he saved?

 

[Taylorj2]

What would you use for your witness?

Your supernatural ability?Or His word?

You follow God's word, and His word says that we have spiritual gifts - it's our foundation.

 

[Wansvic]

No one can claim that what they today are labeling as "speaking in tongues" is anything like what the New Testament presents.

The foundation of the Pentecostal movement is based on pure speculation.

Church history provides much detail concerning post apostolic speaking in tongues.

 

[Taylorj2]

Church history provides much detail concerning post apostolic speaking in tongues.

I would love to hear of it personally. What are your solid references?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Yes, far be it from me to say that tongues is not a gift of the Spirit. The bible expressly says so.

On the other hand, what Pentecostals teach today goes far beyond the Gift of Tongues, making it into a Prayer Language that is supposedly available to anybody who choose to move their mouths and "let the Spirit fill that mouth with words." Not being funny....

I agree with you. I don't like that they believe that it is a sign of someone being saved. That is nowhere in the Bible. The Bible actually says that not everybody who gets saved will be able to speak in tongues, which is perfectly fine.


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[Dino246]

You are twisting the words of scripture a bit. It doesn't say all things.

Apologies; fair point. I was going from memory and should have confirmed the wording.

And see my responses elsewhere regarding "that which is perfect" which addresses yours and others incorrect view of what these scriptures mean. If you can't find my other writings, I'll repost, but the subject matter is extensive.

I'll have a look. I reject the "completed canon of Scripture" view, but if yours is different, I'm interested to read it.

 

[TrustandObey]

Sounds like I touched on a favorite teacher of yours. You might note that I offered nothing whatsoever in regards to his false teaching other than the fact I would not give him any credence. Direction with regards to his fallacies was nothing I said.

BTW, anyone doing even the simplest search will find that he is now discredited my most.

Oh my.

Ocean, are you not aware of who the "he" is that Blain and I are talking about?

The he is you! Post #352

You and the charlatans that you rail against are one in the same.
Now, who is the "he" that you would give no credence to?