Concerning the gift of tongues

[Wansvic]

...

Pentecostals, however, have made it into a doctrine that does not square with the Bible. They call it a "Prayer Language" that all Spirit-Baptized belieers should be able to exercise. This goes directly against God's word, as I said.
...

Praying in the spirit is biblical. As Apostle Paul acknowledged:
"For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also." 1 Corinthians 14:14-15

 

[Lamar]

Just curious, what makes you think God does not use the same sign to validate the message of the Lord Jesus Christ today?

Because we live in a blessed age of faith without sight not an age of the miraculous. John 20:29

Those who seek the physical supernatural manifestations in order to believe are not blessed.

Those of us who believe without ever encountering the supernatural are blessed.

 

[Lamar]

Praying in the spirit is biblical. As Apostle Paul acknowledged:
"For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also." 1 Corinthians 14:14-15

No one can claim that what they today are labeling as "speaking in tongues" is anything like what the New Testament presents.

The foundation of the Pentecostal movement is based on pure speculation.

 

[Wansvic]

1 Corinthians 14:31-33
Amplified Bible, Classic Edition
31 For in this way you can give testimony [prophesying and thus interpreting the divine will and purpose] one by one, so that all may be instructed and all may be stimulated and encouraged;
32 For the spirits of the prophets (the speakers in tongues) are under the speaker’s control [and subject to being silenced as may be necessary],
33 For He [Who is the source of their prophesying] is not a God of confusion and disorder but of peace and order. As [is the practice] in all the churches of the saints (God’s people),

You are fooling no one but those who want to be fooled.

The scripture referenced is about the gift of Prophecy not the gift of tongues. This is a perfect example of why many find it hard to understand biblical concepts. Newer bible translations modify what scripture actually says.

Note the Amplified Classic references speaking in tongues. This changed the original Amplified Bible scripture as well as other translations:

Amplified Classic
For in this way you can give testimony [prophesying and thus interpreting the divine will and purpose] one by one, so that all may be instructed and all may be stimulated and encouraged;
For the spirits of the prophets (the speakers in tongues) are under the speaker’s control [and subject to being silenced as may be necessary],

Amplified
For [in this way] you can all prophesy one by one, so that everyone may be instructed and everyone may be encouraged; 32 for the spirits of prophets are subject to the prophets [the prophecy is under the speaker’s control, and he can stop speaking];

King James
For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

 

[Magenta]

In a Gilligan's Island episode there was a bit of confusion about knowing a cat from a dog.

But there was never any confusion over which one was Gilligan, and which one was Ginger...

 

[Magenta]

Because we live in a blessed age of faith without sight not an age of the miraculous. John 20:29

Those who seek the physical supernatural manifestations in order to believe are not blessed.

Those of us who believe without ever encountering the supernatural are blessed.

No one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

 

[wolfwint]

To you, it's not, but you are not an authority. Are you Pentacostel? Are you a minister of a Pentecostal denomination? What you call claims are documented Testimonies of Healings, salvation, and people baptized in the Holy Spirit. You don't accept the testimony. As if you were there in 1904 or the 1800s.


WE do not need proof. Jesus said these signs follow those who believe. In His name we cast out devils, heal the sick, and speak in new tongues. Just because you have not seen it doesn't make the word of God null and Void.

The Lord says also:
✝ Matthew 7:22

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

✝ Matthew 7:23

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

 

[Taylorj2]

More historical info that shows the Corinth situation:

https://kimolsen.net/2018/06/08/tongues-and-the-mystery-religions-of-corinth/

Very weak source.

 

[Lamar]

No one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

churchofjesuschrist.org
Becoming a Disciple of Our Lord Jesus Christ
By Elder Robert D. Hales
Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

I have met many Mormons who confess "Jesus is Lord".

They actually use this phrase as proof of the validity of their message.

1st Corinthians 12:3 is a general statement of faith but not theology.

 

[wattie]

The word of God speaks for itself and is actually the final authority.

Yes it is.. and this is the historical background of the letter to Corinth. It's supporting the Word. That's just reading context.

Place, time, reason for writing etc.. can be gleaned from historical context.

Here is the thing..

1) The Corinth area was affected by paganism
2) That paganism included their own kind of tongue speaking
3) Paul did not mention exactly this kind.. but did admonish the Corinthians, through the Holy Spirit, to use tongue speaking with order and decency and for it to be clearly understood.
4) The Corinth church had other problems associated with paganism

So it would make sense that pagan tongue speaking was an issue for the church at Corinth.

I'll leave talking about the history here.. but it is important.. especially for the church at Corinth because it is a complex situation they were in.

 

[wattie]

Very weak source.

But it agrees with numerous others.

Anyway.. I'll leave the historical background and continue with posting just about scripture itself.

 

[Magenta]

churchofjesuschrist.org
Becoming a Disciple of Our Lord Jesus Christ
By Elder Robert D. Hales
Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

I have met many Mormons who confess "Jesus is Lord".

They actually use this phrase as proof of the validity of their message.

1st Corinthians 12:3 is a general statement of faith but not theology.

Not theology, does not compute. One cannot believe Jesus is Lord in their heart aside from the Holy Spirit of God.

Anyone can say the words. But believing in your heart is a requirement, not mimicry.

And to believe in your heart requires the work of the Holy Spirit of God.

 

[Taylorj2]

But it agrees with numerous others.

Anyway.. I'll leave the historical background and continue with posting just about scripture itself.

No, all you have posted is people who have a presupposition when approaching scriptures. They are all cessationist and are against the Charismatic church altogether. Why not find sources that approach it from a neutral perspective - or at least take a glance on the other side of the fence opposite your views.

 

[Taylorj2]

Yes it is.. and this is the historical background of the letter to Corinth. It's supporting the Word. That's just reading context.

Place, time, reason for writing etc.. can be gleaned from historical context.

Here is the thing..

1) The Corinth area was affected by paganism
2) That paganism included their own kind of tongue speaking
3) Paul did not mention exactly this kind.. but did admonish the Corinthians, through the Holy Spirit, to use tongue speaking with order and decency and for it to be clearly understood.
4) The Corinth church had other problems associated with paganism

So it would make sense that pagan tongue speaking was an issue for the church at Corinth.

I'll leave talking about the history here.. but it is important.. especially for the church at Corinth because it is a complex situation they were in.

No, Paul never mentions Paganism of tongues in the letter to the Church in Corinth. He is correcting issues related to tongue usage (the spiritual gift in 1 Cor. 12), and from that point he is arguing the correct usage of the gift of Tongues.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Yes it is.. and this is the historical background of the letter to Corinth. It's supporting the Word. That's just reading context.

Place, time, reason for writing etc.. can be gleaned from historical context.

Here is the thing..

1) The Corinth area was affected by paganism
2) That paganism included their own kind of tongue speaking
3) Paul did not mention exactly this kind.. but did admonish the Corinthians, through the Holy Spirit, to use tongue speaking with order and decency and for it to be clearly understood.
4) The Corinth church had other problems associated with paganism

So it would make sense that pagan tongue speaking was an issue for the church at Corinth.

I'll leave talking about the history here.. but it is important.. especially for the church at Corinth because it is a complex situation they were in.

The reason why I'm not convinced by your argument that Corinth's paganism influenced Christians there is because there are cities like Corinth right now in these modern times. One example is New York City - it has all kinds of influences but miraculously it does have a good number of godly churches - some of which still continue in the gifts of the Holy Spirit including speaking in tongues.

Plus you insult God - you have absolutely NO FAITH that God can protect His children from demonic influences while they exercise the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Please give God a little more credit for being able to protect them from that!

 

[ocean]

Because we live in a blessed age of faith without sight not an age of the miraculous. John 20:29

Those who seek the physical supernatural manifestations in order to believe are not blessed.

Those of us who believe without ever encountering the supernatural are blessed.

Then you cannot be saved. Salvation is a supernatural encounter. Have you experienced salvation? Have you become a new creation in Christ? I am not saying you are not saved, however you really do not know what you are talking about.

BTW, it would seem that physical supernatural manifestations is somewhat contradictory

 

[ocean]

Yes it is.. and this is the historical background of the letter to Corinth. It's supporting the Word. That's just reading context.

Place, time, reason for writing etc.. can be gleaned from historical context.

Here is the thing..

1) The Corinth area was affected by paganism
2) That paganism included their own kind of tongue speaking
3) Paul did not mention exactly this kind.. but did admonish the Corinthians, through the Holy Spirit, to use tongue speaking with order and decency and for it to be clearly understood.
4) The Corinth church had other problems associated with paganism

So it would make sense that pagan tongue speaking was an issue for the church at Corinth.

I'll leave talking about the history here.. but it is important.. especially for the church at Corinth because it is a complex situation they were in.

And once again, you cannot make sense of God saving people out of the paganism but continue to give the devil credit for doing what he does best.

If that is your best excuse for denying spiritual gifts, I wonder what your excuse is for apparently denying the power of God to save people from disbelief to believing in Him?

 

[ocean]

No, Paul never mentions Paganism of tongues in the letter to the Church in Corinth. He is correcting issues related to tongue usage (the spiritual gift in 1 Cor. 12), and from that point he is arguing the correct usage of the gift of Tongues.

Right. He has been beating his pagan drum since the onset of this thread. Seems he has a problem with scripture and would like to rewrite it using paganism as a source.

 

[wattie]

Right, so Corinth was being admonished by Paul to overcome their issues.

They had many.

They were in process of addressing them, but not a Godly church.

 

[ocean]

Sometimes you really do have to...clean your sandals. It's like a compound fracture. The bone is visible, but the person keeps trying to walk normally anyway.