Concerning the gift of tongues

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nov 12, 2024
144
45
28
or maybe I am just being niave here and this only applies to me but personally I think people show who they are online more than you might think every word spoken comes from the heart
You are naive to believe such things.

On the issue of you knowing the hearts of others:

1 Corinthians 2:11
who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
20,558
3,223
113
You are naive to believe such things.

On the issue of you knowing the hearts of others:

1 Corinthians 2:11
who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
Matthew 15:17-19 New International Version (NIV)But the things that come out of a person's mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.
 
Apr 3, 2025
48
18
8
whether or not we think it is needed or not doesn't matter the fact the gift still exists and operates means God still has use for it, tongues is not merely another language it has actual power in it I know because I got to experience that power first hand it filled me up and overflowed like a strange sensation of both fire and electricity

We don't always understand why God does or doesn't do things and we certainly cannot tell him what is needed when it comes to the gifts of the spirit after all his ways are not our ways and his thoughts not our thoughts so am I to understand that you believe tongues is not needed or for today?
EVERYTHING that Father (God) does is logical. Father is The Voice of Reason, i.e. common-sense. Unfortunately these days it isn't very common.

EVERYTHING that Father does, or allows to happen, serves a purpose, whether we see or understand it or not.

EVERYTHING that Father does serves the greater, common good, i.e. it is what is best for everyone.

EVERYTHING that we experience here on Earth falls into 4 basic categories. It is either:
1) a lesson;
2) a test;
3) a reward; and/or
4) a punishment

There is no question that Father's Thoughts are higher than ours, because He always has the best interests of everyone in mind.

However, we are supposed to be learning to BE perfect, as Father is perfect (Matt. 5:48 KJV). And the only way for any of us to begin striving for perfection is to get to KNOW Father, and His Eldest/Firstborn Son, whom Father sent.

John 17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, and Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.

From what little has been personally learned from Father, it can be said that whatever gifts He bestows on us will serve a logical purpose and the greater, common good, just as His Law does.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,241
4,435
113
With the 120 together, yes. But some people use to interprete that pentcost Was the second experience with the Holy Spiotit. Because the apostles had aready received the Holy Spirit when Jesus breath it to them.

Why you missinterprete my saying? I have not said that the Holy Spirit is not giving gifts today!!

Yes, you have. And you continue to speak about the Pentacostel Fellowship as if you know what you are talking about. I have provided you with the information and valid statements of many Pentacostel denominations. You continue to interject false narratives and personal attacks. And again, I have called you about it.
 
Apr 3, 2025
48
18
8
If?

Words have meaning. Your statement was false.

We do not have the originals of any of the books of the Bible.

The words "earlier" and "original" have two very different meanings.

Your misstatement and your "if you prefer" response shows much about your intention on this subject.
You are choosing to believe that God is somehow powerless to preserve His Word against the efforts of puny humans.

STOP IT!

Mark 16:9-20 was very obviously added. That is a TRUE statement. It is also a true, verifiable statement that Mark 16:9-20 was NOT included in earlier manuscripts, INCLUDING THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS.

How can we be absolutely certain about that?

Because IF Mark 16:9-20 were assumed to be true, it would mean Christ (the Truth - John 14:6) is a liar, which is ridiculous.

Matthew 10:1-7
10:1 And when he had called unto [him] his twelve disciples, he gave them power [against] unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James [the son] of Zebedee, and John his brother;
10:3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the taxman; James (the Lord's half-brother - ch. 13:55 and Gal. 1:19) [the son] of Alphaeus [Cleophas] (Mary's second husband) and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
10:4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go NOT into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the "House of Israel".
10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of heaven is at hand.

(see also: Matthew 15:24-28 and Mark 7:24-30)

Compare with:

"Mark 16:15" And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

The reason God allows idiots and barbarians to attempt to add things (or take away) from His Word is to test us. Every time someone makes such an attempt (as the RCC has done), it sticks out like a sore thumb against the rest of Scripture, which itself ALWAYS follows God's Law.

Deuteronomy 17:6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; [but] at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.
 
Jun 30, 2015
26,176
14,141
113
The rejection of the Pentecostal movement is not a doctrine but an observation.

Just as we reject the claims of Bigfoot-like people roaming the woods, so do we also reject the claims of Pentecostals.

I do not believe in Bigfoot not because of a systemic search of every inch of forest or every claim of a sighting. But the obvious lack of evidence that should be clearly evident is proof enough.

CS1, do you believe in Bigfoot? If not, why not?

I am not swallowing a camel because there is no Pentecostal camel to swallow.

Just claims of a camel.

If the claims of Pentecostalism were true we would all be Pentecostals.
Whether you believe in Bigfoot or not is irrelevant, but your statement serves to illustrate your error, to wit: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Further, rejecting available evidence because of prejudice is not sound rationale.
 
Oct 29, 2023
4,470
603
113
The verses of Mark 16:9-20 (the verses after verse 16:8) were not in the original manuscripts, and were only added later (which is why they do not match the surrounding text or the rest of the Gospel accounts), hence the reason many rightly doubt their authenticity.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/was-mark-16-9-20-originally-mark-gospel/
How do you know they weren't in the original if we do not have the original because all the originals of all the Gospels have perished with use?

Why do you believe verses 9-20 do not match the surrounding text ?
Why do you think they do not match the rest of the Gospel accounts ?

One characteristic of 9-20 that conforms with the character of the rest of Mark is its focus on evangelism. Mark is the gospel that is represented by the face of the ox: animal that bears burdens, is offered in sacrifice and ploughs and brings in the harvest. Mark presents Christ as the suffering servant, and the sin-bearer, and the bringer of good news. He also presents Jesus primarily as the consummate evangelist.

The other gospels are represented primarily by other faces, and primarily highlight other aspects of Jesus, while nevertheless showing something of the other three faces.

Matthew: the face of a lion, the promised King and the consummate apostle,
Mark: the face of an ox, the promised suffering servant and atonement sacrifice, and the consummate evangelist.
Luke, the face of a man, the promised seed of the woman, the kinsman redeemer, and the consummate pastor-teacher
John: the face of an eagle, the promised prophet like unto Moses, and the consummate prophet.

If we look at the opening verses of Mark "1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God."

Now we look at the ending -

16 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?
4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.
5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.
6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him. (The angels evangelised the women and send them with the good news).
7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you. (the women are sent as evangelists to take good news to the disciples)
8 And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid. (The women, on their way the the disciples, were not convinced by the angels' testimony, so told no one they met until they arrived at the disciples lodgings.)
9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. (Jesus evangelised Mary.)
10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept. (She believed she had seen Him risen and evangelised the disciples.)
11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not. (But they did not believe her testimony of seeing Jesus risen.)
12 After that He appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. (Jesus evangelised two disciples.)
13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. (They evangelised the eleven, but they did not believe their testimony of seeing Jesus risen.)
14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. (Jesus evangelised the eleven and they believed they had seen the risen Saviour.)
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. ( Jesus sends them as evangelists to take the good news to the world.)
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. (Knowing that the testimony of men or angels was not enough to convince Jesus' own disciples, but they needed a personal experience of the risen Christ, Jesus promised to demonstrate His real risen presence through signs to confirm the message. )
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen. (They went out and shared the good news, and Jesus was faithful to conform it with signs.

That this ending of Mark is so replete with allusions to evangelism, inc=dicates to me that it is one spirit with the focus of the rest of Mark's gospel.
 

Lamar

Well-known member
May 21, 2023
1,149
182
63
Whether you believe in Bigfoot or not is irrelevant, but your statement serves to illustrate your error, to wit: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Further, rejecting available evidence because of prejudice is not sound rationale.
I agree with you that the subject matter is irrelevant but the reasoning seems to be spot on.
People who make these bigfoot claims are just as bound to the need for evidence as those who claim supernatural gifts.
Absence of evidence for claims of ongoing current events does not simply cast doubt on the claimant but is rather damning.
I believe that Trust and Obey is simply using faith in Bigfoot as a example of faulty reasoning.
I would have used the Loch Ness Monster. I personally once believed it.
 

DJT_47

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2022
1,197
212
63
Show me one verse that states that tongues has ceased, and by the way the way you respond in such a nasty manner to people and the fact you don't believe in the gift I would say you are spiritually dry
All gifts have ceased
1 Cor 13:8
 
Jun 30, 2015
26,176
14,141
113
Is the Holy Spirit some third character in a "trinity"? No. The Holy Spirit is our telepathic/spiritual connection with God.
You are promoting heresy by clearly implying that the Holy Spirit is not God. You have three options: repent and believe the truth (much preferred), cease promoting your heresy (shut up about your erroneous beliefs on the subject), or continue and be banned from this site.

It’s your choice, but there will be no second warning should you choose the latter.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,241
4,435
113
How do you know they weren't in the original if we do not have the original because all the originals of all the Gospels have perished with use?

Why do you believe verses 9-20 do not match the surrounding text ?
Why do you think they do not match the rest of the Gospel accounts ?

One characteristic of 9-20 that conforms with the character of the rest of Mark is its focus on evangelism. Mark is the gospel that is represented by the face of the ox: animal that bears burdens, is offered in sacrifice and ploughs and brings in the harvest. Mark presents Christ as the suffering servant, and the sin-bearer, and the bringer of good news. He also presents Jesus primarily as the consummate evangelist.

The other gospels are represented primarily by other faces, and primarily highlight other aspects of Jesus, while nevertheless showing something of the other three faces.

Matthew: the face of a lion, the promised King and the consummate apostle,
Mark: the face of an ox, the promised suffering servant and atonement sacrifice, and the consummate evangelist.
Luke, the face of a man, the promised seed of the woman, the kinsman redeemer, and the consummate pastor-teacher
John: the face of an eagle, the promised prophet like unto Moses, and the consummate prophet.

If we look at the opening verses of Mark "1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God."

Now we look at the ending -

16 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?
4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.
5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.
6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him. (The angels evangelised the women and send them with the good news).
7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you. (the women are sent as evangelists to take good news to the disciples)
8 And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid. (The women, on their way the the disciples, were not convinced by the angels' testimony, so told no one they met until they arrived at the disciples lodgings.)
9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. (Jesus evangelised Mary.)
10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept. (She believed she had seen Him risen and evangelised the disciples.)
11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not. (But they did not believe her testimony of seeing Jesus risen.)
12 After that He appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. (Jesus evangelised two disciples.)
13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. (They evangelised the eleven, but they did not believe their testimony of seeing Jesus risen.)
14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. (Jesus evangelised the eleven and they believed they had seen the risen Saviour.)
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. ( Jesus sends them as evangelists to take the good news to the world.)
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. (Knowing that the testimony of men or angels was not enough to convince Jesus' own disciples, but they needed a personal experience of the risen Christ, Jesus promised to demonstrate His real risen presence through signs to confirm the message. )
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen. (They went out and shared the good news, and Jesus was faithful to conform it with signs.

That this ending of Mark is so replete with allusions to evangelism, inc=dicates to me that it is one spirit with the focus of the rest of Mark's gospel.
There is a serious format that was used in the writing of the text of Mark, which many do not take into consideration, for example:

Here in the text, the calcium of the text was written as you see. In Mark 9-20 at verse 14, it seems to be missing, yet the structure of the calcium is there. If you look at the Manuscript, it was not there or removed. The next qestion is why was it added and who added it?



 
Apr 5, 2025
69
51
18
Mark 16:9-20 is not in the best manuscripts. Please see my question in post #366.
That's a common belief amongst today to attempt to discount the New Testament verses. However, Irenaeus in Against Heresies quotes verse 19 in 180 A.D. Undoubtedly, through Church history the majority considered verses 9-20 as cannon. Also, Jesus and the Epistles teach tongues are for believers if we are meaning it for this discussion.
 

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
1,752
751
113
Is the Holy Spirit some third character in a "trinity"? No. The Holy Spirit is our telepathic/spiritual connection with God.
I haven't kept up with your posts here, but I'm wondering how long you've been slipping in statements like this?
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
4,470
603
113
And if someone claimed that Jesus enabled him to have moved Mt. Hood to Iowa last week would you believe him?

I await your response.
I would not automatically assume Jesus had not enabled him last week to sign the requisite contracts for the mountain to be moved yo Iowa. I would not be publicly denouncing him for making the claim without having investigated his claim, on the basis that others have made false claims about other or the same thing before.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
20,558
3,223
113
All gifts have ceased
1 Cor 13:8
yes but it said when did it say it would cease? when completeness comes right? as far as I know considering the chapter itself completeness has not come yet read the full chapter and see what paul was talking about
 
Jun 30, 2015
26,176
14,141
113
I agree with you that the subject matter is irrelevant but the reasoning seems to be spot on.
People who make these bigfoot claims are just as bound to the need for evidence as those who claim supernatural gifts.
Absence of evidence for claims of ongoing current events does not simply cast doubt on the claimant but is rather damning.
I believe that Trust and Obey is simply using faith in Bigfoot as a example of faulty reasoning.
I would have used the Loch Ness Monster. I personally once believed it.
Miss the point much?